Mahou Shoujo × Haiboku Saiban - Vol. 3 Ch. 15 - Case 05 Tatemaki Lemon Part 3

[runedKnight]

I forgot that Lemon's ability forces people to keep their promises. In that case, your theory would make a lot of sense. But there still lies the question of how anyone even knows about her ability in the first place? Yes, Lemon told Mii about her ability when she attacked her, but the plan was already in motion before Mii tried to attack Lemon in the first place.

And the lie was the punishment was in "the defendant's best interest in mind". That does not discount revenge being the motivation. As I theorized before, Shikimi's intention in regards to the punishment could be to use her body to do all sorts of perverted things to it. Taking over Lemon's body is something that we both seem to agree with. What we differ on is what Shikimi plans on doing with Lemon's body, after.

You theorize that it is to use her ability to control others. It is a good theory that I never thought of. But am leaning towards something perverted being the main goal. Pretty much everything in this manga is straight up hentai without the graphic sex scenes. Using Lemon's body as a sex toy would be in line with what we've seen already.

I think the real question we should be asking is how serious and dark the author is willing to take story. If it is in line with the perverted silliness we have seen so far, then it shouldn't have anything that deep. But if the author is willing to go down the rabbit hole of actually including something serious, like a deconstruction, then taking over and enslaving everyone would be a really dark way to go. We will have to wait until the next chapter find out the direction of the story, going forward.

Shikimi like all girls Tatemaki sentenced experienced her magic first hand. Based on the number of cases it's not impossible her abilities are widely known. On the other hand in regards to Shikimi's goals I'm thinking that her character is not that perverted as to want to abuse Tatemaki in some way (other than the punishment itself), but yeah, there isn't much to go on atm in regards to her goal.

The bigger question remains as to how Yuuri will actually present proof that the Monster was possessed by Shikimi. Seeing as to how she was merely amused when Yuuri went to accuse her. She is probably convinced that without a straight confession on her end Yuuri can't do anything, which leads me to assume that Tatemaki's ability could be the key again here. Perhaps force her to confess somehow?

tbh I have a gut feeling the author is aiming for something darker. This chapter opened a whole bag of worms in regards to how society treats Magical Girls and something tells me he is being deliberately vague on the horrifying details. I'm repeating myself here, but Yuuri knows much more than a run of the mill Magical Girls should know.

 

[DeadToReal]

Shikimi like all girls Tatemaki sentenced experienced her magic first hand. Based on the number of cases it's not impossible her abilities are widely known. On the other hand in regards to Shikimi's goals I'm thinking that her character is not that perverted as to want to abuse Tatemaki in some way (other than the punishment itself), but yeah, there isn't much to go on atm in regards to her goal.

The bigger question remains as to how Yuuri will actually present proof that the Monster was possessed by Shikimi. Seeing as to how she was merely amused when Yuuri went to accuse her. She is probably convinced that without a straight confession on her end Yuuri can't do anything, which leads me to assume that Tatemaki's ability could be the key again here. Perhaps force her to confess somehow?

tbh I have a gut feeling the author is aiming for something darker. This chapter opened a whole bag of worms in regards to how society treats Magical Girls and something tells me he is being deliberately vague on the horrifying details. I'm repeating myself here, but Yuuri knows much more than a run of the mill Magical Girls should know.

I disagree that all girls sentenced experienced Lemon's magic first hand. If this was the case, then why did Lemon make Mii specifically promise not to harm her in chapter 13?

I think the answer is that Lemon never bothered to use her power on them, because there was simply no need to. The courts already have guards to handle prisoners. Those magical girls would have to get through those guards before even getting close to Lemon in the first place. The reason why Lemon specifically worded the promise to Mii "That you will do me no harm" is because there were no guards to protect her in that situation, so Lemon needed the protection of her power.

It would make sense that Yuuri would know more than your run of the mill magical girls fighting monsters daily. Yuuri is a defense attorney appointed by the state to work in the justice system. Although it doesn't actually show it in the story, I'm sure that she's had to study the laws and reasoning behind those laws before being appointed an attorney -- just like actual lawyers in real life. And although this world is fantasy Japan, it is still based on actual Japan, so it is fair to use real life as an analogy.

I wouldn't be surprised if a special privilege of being a state appointed attorney is knowing certain details that the public shouldn't know. I am guessing this is the reason for her dilemma on page 11, and why Yuuri decided to keep that reasoning to herself, rather than telling it out loud in the courtroom. That particular reason is a state secret.

I, for one, would welcome a darker, serious plot going forward. This story has so much potential that limiting everything to the usual perverted silliness would get old after a while. Yuuri and Lemon joining forces and using Lemon's ability to expose Shikimi's deceit would be a good way to take Shikimi down. I am just kinda hoping the author would find another way, so the story can save Lemon's ability for later on in the story, when the stakes are higher. Lemon's ability is simply too OP to use this early in the story, imo.

 

[runedKnight]

I disagree that all girls sentenced experienced Lemon's magic first hand. If this was the case, then why did Lemon make Mii specifically promise not to harm her in chapter 13?

I think the answer is that Lemon never bothered to use her power on them, because there was simply no need to. The courts already have guards to handle prisoners. Those magical girls would have to get through those guards before even getting close to Lemon in the first place. The reason why Lemon specifically worded the promise to Mii "That you will do me no harm" is because there were no guards to protect her in that situation, so Lemon needed the protection of her power.

It would make sense that Yuuri would know more than your run of the mill magical girls fighting monsters daily. Yuuri is a defense attorney appointed by the state to work in the justice system. Although it doesn't actually show it in the story, I'm sure that she's had to study the laws and reasoning behind those laws before being appointed an attorney -- just like actual lawyers in real life. And although this world is fantasy Japan, it is still based on actual Japan, so it is fair to use real life as an analogy.

I wouldn't be surprised if a special privilege of being a state appointed attorney is knowing certain details that the public shouldn't know. I am guessing this is the reason for her dilemma on page 11, and why Yuuri decided to keep that reasoning to herself, rather than telling it out loud in the courtroom. That particular reason is a state secret.

I, for one, would welcome a darker, serious plot going forward. This story has so much potential that limiting everything to the usual perverted silliness would get old after a while. Yuuri and Lemon joining forces and using Lemon's ability to expose Shikimi's deceit would be a good way to take Shikimi down. I am just kinda hoping the author would find another way, so the story can save Lemon's ability for later on in the story, when the stakes are higher. Lemon's ability is simply too OP to use this early in the story, imo.

I'm thinking that her ability works on a promise by promise basis so she would need a new agreement for every new restriction or demand. As for her using the ability in court I just think that it makes more sense to force every accused magical girl to submit before punishment is administered.

Interestingly enough both prosecutors shown so far have abilities themed around control so that could be the pattern going forward.

Yuuri's backstory has become an interesting plot point ever since the reader pov character changed to Aoi. When more revelations come they will probably come from her. We still do not have any knowledge regarding her motivations for becoming a defense lawyer.


👇some disorganized thoughts

More and more as we go through the story I'm starting to think that the girls themselves (most of them anyway) have next to no idea why things are the way they are. This is mostly based on how absurd the setting is and how the court girls are ready to defend the ludicrous nature of it even though it is beyond obvious how badly they are treated. I'm still not sure how public the Defeat Trial is tbh, we learned that while defeat isn't a rarity returning alive is. The trials are seemingly only known to the magical girls and not the general public. The peanut gallery is also seemingly made of mostly people of higher standing and not the general populace which makes it feel like a high profile event for the higher class and less like an actual court of law.

While the story is filled with perverted silliness I think it has been very dark from the get go, it's obscene brand of humor helps to hide it most of the time... or make it even worse.

 

[DeadToReal]

I'm thinking that her ability works on a promise by promise basis so she would need a new agreement for every new restriction or demand. As for her using the ability in court I just think that it makes more sense to force every accused magical girl to submit before punishment is administered.

Interestingly enough both prosecutors shown so far have abilities themed around control so that could be the pattern going forward.

Yuuri's backstory has become an interesting plot point ever since the reader pov character changed to Aoi. When more revelations come they will probably come from her. We still do not have any knowledge regarding her motivations for becoming a defense lawyer.


👇some disorganized thoughts

More and more as we go through the story I'm starting to think that the girls themselves (most of them anyway) have next to no idea why things are the way they are. This is mostly based on how absurd the setting is and how the court girls are ready to defend the ludicrous nature of it even though it is beyond obvious how badly they are treated. I'm still not sure how public the Defeat Trial is tbh, we learned that while defeat isn't a rarity returning alive is. The trials are seemingly only known to the magical girls and not the general public. The peanut gallery is also seemingly made of mostly people of higher standing and not the general populace which makes it feel like a high profile event for the higher class and less like an actual court of law.

While the story is filled with perverted silliness I think it has been very dark from the get go, it's obscene brand of humor helps to hide it most of the time... or make it even worse.

A new promise for every new restriction or demand would reasonable limitation of her power. But this still assumes Lemon used her powers on magical girls before in the place. Again, what reason would Lemon have to use her power on seemingly slam dunk cases? With the courts and law so stacked against defeated magical girls, Lemon had no trouble getting a winning streak before Yuuri entered the scene. I cannot think of a reason for Lemon to use her magic on defeated magical girls other than making them promise to admit fault and accept punishment - which are completely against Lemon's values.

I never thought of it that way, but it would make sense for prosecutors to have control themed powers. It's just that, if my theory is correct and possession is not Shikimi's original power, then it kinda throws a wrench into that pattern. I do wonder what powers the judges have. Are they even magical girls? Because the only one we've seen looks like an elf to me.

I think the ones directly employed by state know what's going on and how absurd is all is. We haven't been shown any reason why it is only Yuuri that has that knowledge and those magical girls we saw at the end of the first chapter are hinted to also know what's going on as well. Judging by how confident they were and how they were framed, I'm guessing those were chevaliers. The reason why Aoi doesn't know is simply because Yuuri took Aoi on as an assistant by herself and not the state.

I would also agree that the general public and nearly all magical girls that fight on the front lines and are not employed by the state know nothing about the true origins of the monsters and the reasoning for those absurd laws. Makes sense since it would probably terrify most magical girls into not wanting to fight at all, as well as make the general public basically want to enslave all magical girls as a potential security risk.

I'm not sure about the peanut gallery being only people of higher standing. I know that the general public is allowed to sit and watch most court proceedings in several countries in the West, but I do not know if it is the same in Japan. Given how it is implied that the general public is seemingly okay with the many of the obscene and absurd punishments inflicted on magical girls, I think the peanut gallery reflects how the general public actually feels about everything. Remember Yahiro almost being livestreamed locked in a cage and raped to death by a monster? That was supposed to be a pay-per-view event. You can not have such things if the public wasn't into the punishments.

I already have this story highly rated as it is. If the author actually includes a real story with good villains along with all the raunchy pervertedness we've been seeing, I'm probably giving this a 10.

 

[runedKnight]

A new promise for every new restriction or demand would reasonable limitation of her power. But this still assumes Lemon used her powers on magical girls before in the place. Again, what reason would Lemon have to use her power on seemingly slam dunk cases? With the courts and law so stacked against defeated magical girls, Lemon had no trouble getting a winning streak before Yuuri entered the scene. I cannot think of a reason for Lemon to use her magic on defeated magical girls other than making them promise to admit fault and accept punishment - which are completely against Lemon's values.

I never thought of it that way, but it would make sense for prosecutors to have control themed powers. It's just that, if my theory is correct and possession is not Shikimi's original power, then it kinda throws a wrench into that pattern. I do wonder what powers the judges have. Are they even magical girls? Because the only one we've seen looks like an elf to me.

I think the ones directly employed by state know what's going on and how absurd is all is. We haven't been shown any reason why it is only Yuuri that has that knowledge and those magical girls we saw at the end of the first chapter are hinted to also know what's going on as well. Judging by how confident they were and how they were framed, I'm guessing those were chevaliers. The reason why Aoi doesn't know is simply because Yuuri took Aoi on as an assistant by herself and not the state.

I would also agree that the general public and nearly all magical girls that fight on the front lines and are not employed by the state know nothing about the true origins of the monsters and the reasoning for those absurd laws. Makes sense since it would probably terrify most magical girls into not wanting to fight at all, as well as make the general public basically want to enslave all magical girls as a potential security risk.

I'm not sure about the peanut gallery being only people of higher standing. I know that the general public is allowed to sit and watch most court proceedings in several countries in the West, but I do not know if it is the same in Japan. Given how it is implied that the general public is seemingly okay with the many of the obscene and absurd punishments inflicted on magical girls, I think the peanut gallery reflects how the general public actually feels about everything. Remember Yahiro almost being livestreamed locked in a cage and raped to death by a monster? That was supposed to be a pay-per-view event. You can not have such things if the public wasn't into the punishments.

I already have this story highly rated as it is. If the author actually includes a real story with good villains along with all the raunchy pervertedness we've been seeing, I'm probably giving this a 10.

I think it was mentioned that at some point that Tatemkai participates in the execution of the punishments to a degree which would be made easier by the use of her ability. In any case I think Shikimi's punishment being executed by Tatemaki makes a lot of sense since she could simply put her under contract for a set time though her ability.
We still didn't get a clear look into the process and probably wont until someone is sentenced.

Yeah, the peanut gallery thing is still a guess mostly, but it fits to a degree since the court is a severe breach of human decency and easily abusable by a corrupted state. Having the peanut gallery filled with people of status that find the court amusing adds to the depravity. The judge also mentioned NDAs so I'm assuming this is a closed doors affair. The live stream thing could be open to the general public, but I'm not really sure... the whole thing smells like some billionaire's perverted pastime hence the people of higher standing thing.

The whole affair has this secret state run pedophile cabal vibe going on tbh

 

[DeadToReal]

I think it was mentioned that at some point that Tatemkai participates in the execution of the punishments to a degree which would be made easier by the use of her ability. In any case I think Shikimi's punishment being executed by Tatemaki makes a lot of sense since she could simply put her under contract for a set time though her ability.
We still didn't get a clear look into the process and probably wont until someone is sentenced.

Yeah, the peanut gallery thing is still a guess mostly, but it fits to a degree since the court is a severe breach of human decency and easily abusable by a corrupted state. Having the peanut gallery filled with people of status that find the court amusing adds to the depravity. The judge also mentioned NDAs so I'm assuming this is a closed doors affair. The live stream thing could be open to the general public, but I'm not really sure... the whole thing smells like some billionaire's perverted pastime hence the people of higher standing thing.

The whole affair has this secret state run pedophile cabal vibe going on tbh

I do not read Japanese, so I can only go by your translation. But according to your translation, Shikimi "was supposedly made by Lemon-chan to undertake the "Servitude Punishment". This can mean either Lemon pushed and got that punishment on Shikimi, or Lemon was literally the one that carried out the punishment on Shikimi.
Real life prosecutors are not the ones carrying out the punishments they push for. And since it was not explicitly stated or shown that Lemon is the one actually carrying out the punishments, I have no reason to assume that Lemon is the one carrying out the punishments in this story.
We have seen a state appointed magical girl opening a portal to the defeat trial court, so we have no reason not to assume there would be state appointed magical girls to carry out the punishments decided on in the courts. It is just one of those things that we readers have to infer until we are shown otherwise in the story.

Again, considering how the general public gets exited for - and willing to pay for - the opportunity to watch a magical girl locked in a cage to be raped to death by a monster, I do not think this world has any form of decency anywhere close to what we would consider human decency.

I do not remember the judge mentioning NDAs. Can you point out where the judge mentioned it?

 

[runedKnight]

I do not read Japanese, so I can only go by your translation. But according to your translation, Shikimi "was supposedly made by Lemon-chan to undertake the "Servitude Punishment". This can mean either Lemon pushed and got that punishment on Shikimi, or Lemon was literally the one that carried out the punishment on Shikimi.
Real life prosecutors are not the ones carrying out the punishments they push for. And since it was not explicitly stated or shown that Lemon is the one actually carrying out the punishments, I have no reason to assume that Lemon is the one carrying out the punishments in this story.
We have seen a state appointed magical girl opening a portal to the defeat trial court, so we have no reason not to assume there would be state appointed magical girls to carry out the punishments decided on in the courts. It is just one of those things that we readers have to infer until we are shown otherwise in the story.

Again, considering how the general public gets exited for - and willing to pay for - the opportunity to watch a magical girl locked in a cage to be raped to death by a monster, I do not think this world has any form of decency anywhere close to what we would consider human decency.

I do not remember the judge mentioning NDAs. Can you point out where the judge mentioned it?

Previous chapter page 10. Mentioned by the Judge along side some other stuff.

The big If in regards to the purpose of the court hinges on it's public or secret nature. I'm still looking for something that proves it definitively. If the courts existence is public knowledge then it puts society at large into suspect and gives credence to the idea that the world is simply corrupted in a moral sense.
If it is secret then that opens up a whole number of other questions.