Make a new icon to serve as the new manga discussion/forums button's icon

[shinya78]

Feel free to merge this, or not, with my other suggestion as I am primarily making this thread to avoid getting this point becoming buried under that thread.

The devs' reasoning for not having two button ultimately boils down to, and I quote:

Hi, I received a developer reply regarding this suggestion, I'll be posting it here:

Unlikely. It'll be confusing. Easy example: "Interesting chapter, let's read the comments... wait, there are two kinds of comments?"

"It'll be confusing" and "There are two kinds of comments?"

• Yes, there are now two kinds of comments. The devs MADE it that way.
  Well well, if it isn't the consequences of your own actions...
• No, the users didn't call for this. They implemented it anyway.
  While inadvertently shoving away the old function inside the new one
• Yes, they see the suggestion of "Do not open the reader if you just want to read the comments" as valid. Essentially making it a "Quick comments page button".
  This is the exact same function the old button held, but for forums.
• Yes, they see the suggestion of "Be explicit about the fact that older comments exist in the forums to prevent confusing it as if you're going to be navigated to the next page of comments." as valid. Essentially making the "Read # older comments" button a "Go to Forums" button within the new comments system.
  As if seeing the "Go to Forums" button wouldn't also cause their own given example of "Interesting chapter, let's read the comments... wait, there are two kinds of comments?" to happen.

And yet they refuse to give the users the "Quick forums button" back.

This got me thinking, what if the devs think the suggestion for the new button calls for the use of the exact same icon? Was using a different icon for the forums button not already accounted for when people asked for the quick forums button back? Do they not have any other icon that they could've used? Did they assume the users wanted the same icon to be used?

Me-thinks the devs think two buttons would be confusing has more to do with the button icon being the same, not accounting for just having a new icon to represent the forum discussions to differentiate it from comments.

Any suggestions for a new [Forum Discussions] icon, now that the text bubble icon is used for [Comments]?
I'll go first, [Multiple text bubbles].

I wish for this thread to be filled with suggestions as to what sort of icon is to be used, or let their art team decide.

 

[ivy125cordes]

Good point—using a distinct icon like multiple text bubbles or a forum‑style thread symbol could clearly differentiate [Forum Discussions] from [Comments], avoiding confusion while restoring the quick access button users miss.

 

[panzerkampfwagyu]

Honestly, there are some ways to mitigate the confusion entirely.
One would be to hide the forum unless the user actually had made their forum account, the other would be to add both buttons and give them hints when hovered over for longer that more verbosely explain their differences.

 

[shinya78]

Honestly, there are some ways to mitigate the confusion entirely.
One would be to hide the forum unless the user actually had made their forum account, the other would be to add both buttons and give them hints when hovered over for longer that more verbosely explain their differences.

The first would be counter-productive if you think about it, as it decreases the chance of a user making their forum account when they don't know about it in the first place (even less incentives to join the forums), it just makes it as if the new system is their only option. The second helps, but how do you suppose this method could be implemented for mobile users?

 

[panzerkampfwagyu]

The first would be counter-productive if you think about it, as it decreases the chance of a user making their forum account when they don't know about it in the first place (even less incentives to join the forums), it just makes it as if the new system is their only option. The second helps, but how do you suppose this method could be implemented for mobile users?

Maybe it also could be done with a [?] icon next to it to showcase in case of mobile that is next to the buttons?
Would be quite intuitive

 

[panzerkampfwagyu]

Maybe for forum discoverability, they could look into finally making points a not-zombie feature.
Have it be mirrored to mainsite and have minor and major quests, with the V3 survivor becoming a major one and have that be used to become a sneaky tutorial for the site. That way, discovering the forum could become a quest there

 

[shinya78]

Maybe it also could be done with a [?] icon next to it to showcase in case of mobile that is next to the buttons?
Would be quite intuitive

Real estate in mobile is tight enough as it is, I don't think adding more icons would be the right choice for that purpose.

Side note, am I the only one being wary about this new member in the thread, that member who within the span of their first minute since joining, posted what seems like a regurgitated summary, then just left?

 

[panzerkampfwagyu]

Real estate in mobile is tight enough as it is, I don't think adding more icons would be the right choice for that purpose.

Side note, am I the only one being wary about this new member in the thread, that member who within the span of their first minute since joining, posted what seems like a regurgitated summary, then just leave?

The button could be shortened a bit to make a tiny bit of space, similar to the left and right buttons on chapter selection or the options button for page limiting and progression mode, I don't think that would be too much of a problem to add from a place standpoint.

And now that you mention it, that user has a very AI-sounding style.

 

[Angry_Panda]

Side note, am I the only one being wary about this new member in the thread, that member who within the span of their first minute since joining, posted what seems like a regurgitated summary, then just left?

And now that you mention it, that user has a very AI-sounding style.

Yeah, that screams 'bot' to me - they'll be back (briefly) later to post something that gets them nuked.

How about using the existing forum 'speech bubble' for the new comments, and for the Xenforo forum comments?

(I'm partly joking. Partly.)

 

[panzerkampfwagyu]

Yeah, that screams 'bot' to me - they'll be back (briefly) later to post something that gets them nuked.

How about using the existing forum 'speech bubble' for the new comments, and for the Xenforo forum comments?

(I'm partly joking. Partly.)

Tbh, that could be working very well.
It doesn't explain shit, but it sure would cause curiosity about what the button does, leading users to find it out themselves

 

[shinya78]

The button could be shortened a bit to make a tiny bit of space, similar to the left and right buttons on chapter selection or the options button for page limiting and progression mode, I don't think that would be too much of a problem to add from a place standpoint.

And now that you mention it, that user has a very AI-sounding style.

Maybe for when you're already in the title page looking at chapter list, but what about the front page?

Figures, I think I've even seen new ones that I could've sworn already got nuked a few hours ago.

 

[BakedBanana]

Yeah, that screams 'bot' to me - they'll be back (briefly) later to post something that gets them nuked.

Or they'll edit their message later to include an advertisement or link. Sometimes bots will do that once the thread has less eyes, so be on the lookout.

 

[Dverin_Oshiban_Duren]

It has to match the style tho.
I know some sites that just use emojis for icons and for "small" sites it can have a home-y feel but otherwise it could look cheap, low-quality, makeshift, etc. and I don't think that's the direction the higher-ups want to go.

It will probably be limited to things like these symbols: 🌐👁️‍🗨️💬💭🗨️🗯️👥 'cuz they're standard everywhere.

Maybe they can split that wide comment button into two? Or change the shape of the speech bubbles?

Maybe I should fire up Inkscape (or MS paint) if I get some time and see where that goes?
Actually that might become a disaster...

After they fix the bug where clicking to view the comments from external chapters also loads the chapter, I'm personally ok with mirroring the forum threads and having a pinned comment at the top by MD which links to the corresponding forum thread.
Sorry if this ain't the thread for that.

Kinda feels like they already made a solid stance on not having two buttons but having an icon for the forums could still be useful.

 

[shinya78]

It has to match the style tho.
I know some sites that just use emojis for icons and for "small" sites it can have a home-y feel but otherwise it could look cheap, low-quality, makeshift, etc. and I don't think that's the direction the higher-ups want to go.

It will probably be limited to things like these symbols: 🌐👁️‍🗨️💬💭🗨️🗯️👥 'cuz they're standard everywhere.

Maybe they can split that wide comment button into two? Or change the shape of the speech bubbles?

Maybe I should fire up Inkscape (or MS paint) if I get some time and see where that goes?
Actually that might become a disaster...

Looks to the left side of the screen, sees the icons for Home, Forums, What's new, and Members
Yup, that's a single text bubble icon. Thinking more on it, that single bubble truly does feel more like a single remark, more fitting for a "comment". Meanwhile multiple text bubbles feel more like a back-and-forth, a "discussion" some might say.

After they fix the bug where clicking to view the comments from external chapters also loads the chapter, I'm personally ok with mirroring the forum threads and having a pinned comment at the top by MD which links to the corresponding forum thread.
Sorry if this ain't the thread for that.

I'll be honest, I personally wouldn't have mind not having two buttons as much if this was the default behavior of the new system in the first place. More so when you consider my original stance in the matter. "Having separate buttons for Comments and Discussions in the side menu when already inside the reader", as I assumed that clicking the icon/button on the chapter list items would still redirect to the forums as usual, and that the new system would be exclusively found inside the reader.

Only after seeing that people are complaining about the old button opening the comments instead, did I consider "why not have both buttons?". So I figured, might as well.

Spoiler: The suggestion thread at the time

Since someone might as well make the suggestion...

Ever since the complaints about the button that used to direct the old comments to the forums are now being used by the new system, and that the old chapter discussion comments are now being buried underneath it. I suggest adding a new button, not unlike the old one, that would serve the purpose of separating the new integrated comments from the old forum comments.

The old button could function the same as before, just rebranded to something different, while the new button would serve for the new integrated comments. For example, forum [Discuss]ions vs casual [Comment]s. (Or use the new button for the old system, whichever is easier for the devs.)

This is effectively a suggestion to rebrand the old chapter comments in the forums reader as DISCUSS(ions), as an example, to differentiate it from the new system that is taking over as the new COMMENT(s).

This would allow users to quickly comment using the new system, while keeping the old system just as easily accessible as it used to for forum discussions, ensuring that both systems could co-exist without so much a fuss.

Then came "no, it's confusing", which really didn't sit right with a lot of users.

Spoiler: addition to the suggestion thread then

"Can we have two buttons?": No, it's confusing, and that will lead to a further split of platform vs forums.

Confusing? How?
All this does is give easy access to what still exists as the old forum comments. The sub-forum where these old comments are located is already called Chapter Discussions for that specific reason. Rebranding the old system to something else would clearly tell the user what to expect, light comments about the chapter vs deep discussions about the chapter. Sure, anyone could use either system for whatever purpose with varying degrees of success, but having both options being openly available right in front for everyone to use is better than burying the old function underneath the new one. Users will naturally trickle down to whichever system they want for whichever purpose.

If the idea was having both alive as mentioned by @Bartolumiu

the plan is to keep both the new comments and the forums alive at the same time, with each having its own purpose.
Title and chapter comments on the new system, and general chatting and discussion here in the forums (so yeah, lurkers, you can keep lurking as you've been doing up until now).

Then this should be a no-brainer.

And when the developer response came, that surely was not well received.

Kinda feels like they already made a solid stance on not having two buttons but having an icon for the forums could still be useful.

To be real with you, this thread wouldn't even be made if the devs had a better reason than:

Unlikely. It'll be confusing. Easy example: "Interesting chapter, let's read the comments... wait, there are two kinds of comments?"