Using your own personal anecdotal experience of some girls and then making a blanket statement to invalidate a series for the sake of invalidating a series is just reductive and says nothing. It doesn't counter cloud's original reasoning whatsoever. she isnt portrayed as naive (just conditoned to live a certain lifestyle, like literally everybody else)- and regardless the series is a light hearted take on a possible teen romance.
you didn't have to tell us you just graduated high school, your user is literally Sadisticmale and it shows in your creepy defense of wow women like sex so coercing a naive middle schooler to fuck you and then telling her- yeah just be a yesmen to literally all the guys who ask you out, it'll be good for you.
Oh no, I think Sadistic here is right. Although the highschool experience wasn't exactly necessary, it wasn't unreasonable to bring up ACTUAL experiences to validate his reasoning. I'm not even sure why you guys are both arguing against each other in the first place; you both seem to be on the same side, somewhat.
Also, I can't say for sure if this is realistic or not. Seems more to be on the unrealistic side, but there are people out there. First, I want to say that yes, she is naive. Heck, she even basically said something that proved she was naive in one of the 30+ chapters. She got herself easily manipulated and conditioned. I guess the defense here was that she was in love or something. I'm not a romantic, so I can't really say that love would blind me into instantly believing anything my partner says. She believed in his word without using her own judgement or wisdom. That is being naive. Don't give me the "oh, but she's only a middleschooler" crap. I personally am, and know some people, that have had good judgement in the past to go around problems while they were in middle school. I believe it's true that you don't see a retard like Meguro out here. She just goes downhill. Cloud said that she walled herself off because she didn't want to get hurt like the time from her first love. Well, she sort of did continue to bang other guys and started physical relationships like her first love. Basically, she's a harlot that doesn't understand what love is. I do think it's ridiculous how overly reliant she is on someone for her to change. She's a goddamn rock. She did not change until she met Koga. She accepted his confession just like that. Honestly, it probably could've been any guy. Also, can we really call it a rumor anymore? She kind of confirmed it herself that she's a harlot and is not a virgin. Those people were right to not get involved with someone like her; Sorry, Meguro. She's a heap of mess that's asking for drama.
As for realism, you can somewhat say that her as a middleschooler can be tied back to discord mods/ytbers grooming a teen. It's different however, as Meguro didn't stick to one person that she loved, but just decided to bang anyone that asked her for it. Maybe I can't say much in Meguro's case, because I've never been conditioned before, but she isn't very bright. There were red flags everywhere that she somehow did not notice.
The way people talked about her was one. She was aware what she was doing wasn't exactly right, otherwise, why else would she say to Koga that she wasn't a virgin as a warning? The other red flag was the way her sister was treating her. The sister called out Meguro's problems in a scornful tone. It's likely that she probably did it in the past as well. All Meguro could do was stay silent. She's also in highschool now. She also seems to be aware that all she had with her first love was a one-sided physical relationship. There's no way she doesn't know what a pedophile is. That would just be sad as a highschooler.
As for "virgin fetishists." What? It is not wrong to think that virginity is special. Having sex means that you SHOULD be aware that the act could possibly conceive a child. Meguro having it multiple times puts her at risk multiple times. There are multitude of problems with trying to prevent it. Condoms are not 100% failproof. Pills will cause problems with your body when trying to conceive a child in the future. There is no one that wants to hear of a middleschooler/highschooler getting pregnant and handling that child in an irresponsible manner. As for the fetish part: are you aware that keeping your virginity can be like saying you are reserving it for the one you love? It feels much more wholesome and special to the person who's taking it. Of course, there are people who just think that sex can be casual and whatever. Nothing wrong with that in society nowadays, I suppose.
@JBBJSBB Personally, I think it is. It is very heavy on the drama at times, but the overall psychological aspect, and the background for the drama is kept to short chapters that are flashbacks to prior to the series start. Not to mention that with the way the MMC acts 90% of the time, the drama becomes less intense and is resolved pretty easily.
The biggest drama points in the series proper, have so far been resolved within a chapter of being introduced. I don't remember reading any major drama points that lasted too much longer after the first few chapters.
There isn't any direct mention of rape either, so you're good on that front at the very least.
My best recommendation though, would be to read the first 5-6 chapters and see if the story is able to keep you interested over the drama that happens. If it is, then definitely keep reading (It is actually much more adorable and sweet a series than the title would lead one to believe). If it doesn't, then I'd say wait until it's over, and read some reviews from people that have finished it and decide if you wanna try again.
@Sadisticmale Okay, I'm going to really itemize this for myself more than anything, so I can stay on topic as I go lol
First and foremost, I agree with you that the series is unrealistic from just about every standpoint. Yes, there are absolutely girls and women out there that have been conditioned and used to the point of being similar to Meguro, but there are not the majority in the least and they are absolutely not as emotionally disconnected as Meguro is (Even if recent chapters has had her opening up more and more).
The series is meant to be a drama, so it is going to have to have things in it that are within the realm of possibility, but not the norm so it has some type of reason to have the drama that it does. My reply to you before was simply giving you an in-universe reason for the things you asked (Even if they were rhetorical questions all the same). If your opinion of the series is that it's boring, unrealistic and uninteresting, then by all means that's your opinion and I won't try and change that.
As for your own experiences, I can't say that I've ever been there, so I can't really relate, but you also can't fully understand what all of those JK's are going through, or what they felt on a regular basis. I won't say they were even CLOSE to how Meguro is, but there are real world examples of women and men that are emotionally disconnected like Meguro, but in a more realistic way than how she's potrayed.
You referring to Meguro as being pure and naive, I think you're getting a different vibe from her than what is intended. Or maybe I'm just reading into it too much? Not sure which it is, but I'll give my opinion of her based on what you said (Regarding her pure and naive side at least). First and foremost, she's pure in the sense that she doesn't go out of her way to try and force sex or talk about that subject outwardly on a regular basis. That doesn't mean she's actively "PURE" so much as she understand the overall social acceptance of that sort of thing and knows there's a time and a place to talk about it. Her not forcing the MMC into anything, cycles back to her emotionally detatched mentality of wanting to be useful to someone. So she treats the MMC how she does because she believes that she's being useful to him (At the start at least). If the MMC had been like the other guys she dated, and asked her for sex, she most likely would've said "Sure" and not thought twice about it, but he didn't so she didn't force the matter.
Her naivety is is more towards the concept of love and romance that the MMC has and is showing towards her than anything else. Most of her life has been just her being used by guys to get laid and then tossed because she didn't know there was more to it than that. So when someone says that's not why he wants to be with her, she doesn't know where to go from there.
There's also the possibility that the tutor she had that conditioned her, caused her to go through a mental or emotional trama of some type that stunted her mental and emotional growth, causing her to be have the mental rationality of an elementry schooler at worst, middle schooler at best. That could also lead to her naivety in a lot of this as she doesn't even understand the concepts that are being brought to her attention, so she doesn't know how to react to them.
But that's just my opinion on that matter. Like I said, I could be reading too much into it, or you might just not be getting the same vibe from her as I am is all.
As for the whole shit talking people for loving the idea of the pure virgin JK or whatever. That's really not here nor there for me. People are allowed to like what they like (Within reason of course), so I don't personally have an opinion on that. I will say that people who believe ANYTHING in these types of Manga are even remotely realistic or could happen to them, need to rethink their life chocies and understand that it's ficition. It ain't gonna happen... Seperate fiction from reality!!
The idea of Meguro being a cope for people is another one of those fantasy fufillment things. It's a nice thing to dream about, but don't expect it to ever really happen. Take it from me, if anything even close to this type of drama were to happen, it wouldn't be anywhere NEAR as neatly wrapped up or easy to solve as series like this make them out to be.
Finally, the question (Statement?) of Meguro and her joy or lack of joy when it came to sex... I mean, duh? It's not like she didn't feel anything and was just a dead lay, right? Of course she enjoyed the physical act. No, not all women are damaged and yes, most women enjoy sex. That's the fact of life and the sooner people realize it the sooner we can move on!
However, in Meguro's case, even if she did enjoy it, she IS 'damaged' and whether she needs to be or not, she IS getting 'fixed' by the MMC. It's intended to be a feel good story of a loser getting the girl and showing that he's not as big a loser as people think. That's pretty much it. It's a story, it's not realistic in the least, and it's not meant to be...
Kinda rambled a bit in there, but yeah. I enjoy the series because I like adorable slice of life romance series. They are not for everyone and I understand that lol You keep doin' you though!
You made some really good points and I agree with most of them. My problem was with the ethnic guy and the way he was acting as a total asshole.
I agree about seperating fiction from reality. Like you said, this is a feel good manga where the virgin loser gets the hot girl and both of them change. The thing is that people are treating this manga as some genius level romcom that potrays relationship in a 'realistic' way. I just disagreed with those people.
Look at the comments. "Mature subjects handled responsibly". Then these people have the gall to call out people who don't like the premise incels and 'virgin fetishizers". None of the people here have any experience with relationships at all. And it shows.
@Sadisticmale I honestly haven't seen any of their posts, so I don't really know. I'm also not really going to jump in and defend anyone on that, so yeah lol
As for the whole opinion(s) of the series being a 'genius' level series. I love the series, but even I know that it's not quite that good. The people saying that it potrays the realtionship in a realistic way, I do agree with to a degree. Everything is going to be exagerated because it is fiction, but that doesn't mean that the way certain characters handle things are at least SOMEWHAT realistic. The MMC for example treating Meguro respectfully and overlooking her past is a somewhat realistic way that some people are able to act in realtionships similar to this (Again, obviously exagerated). The MMC being incredibly anxious and can easily misunderstand things is also pretty realistic given his character and the subject matter of the series.
For example in the Christmas chapter,
when he comes across Meguro and his friend and they APPEAR to be on a date, his reaction is to jump to conclusions and assume the worst, that she's cheating on him. We the readers know that's not the case. We also know that this is a pretty cliche missunderstanding that a lot of series like this seem to bring up (Good example is My First Girlfriend is a Gal). In a real life situation like that, sure most people wouldn't just jump to that conclusion, but if they were dating someone that was known to have slept around, and the person their SO was with was known to be in an open relationship. Even if they didn't actively react the same way, they would definitely have doubts in their mind that nothing was going on.
The series being incredibly over exagerated makes him react the way he did.
The series also does cover mature subjects pretty responsibly. No, it's not perfect by any means, as I just stated above everything is over exagerated, and that includes the way things are handled. If anything I'd say the series is a good eye opener to not judging a book by it's cover when it comes to other people and rumors, but not to take it as an end all be all of that type of thing.
Ok, don call people that prefer a pure protagonist "weird"or "fetishist", what is the problem in wanting a pure girl?now i am abligated to choose a girl that slept with 2, 4 guys? Everyone says and call someone that prefer a pure girl "you weirdo fetishist" like if was wrong wanting a pure girl, of course there is much more to consider when you choose a person to stay by your side, if you like her you not gonna throw her off just because she is not a virgin, but if she is a virgin, bro, it is a happy adition some people would like to have, and the matter is that when you call someone weird cuz they want a pure lifemate you are part of the people that don care about giving you precious first experience to someone who doesn't even is confirmed to stay by your side forever, and this is cuz people who prefer pure protagonists are the one who will give (most of them) all their first experiences to their loved spouse, that means, they will keep themselves "safe" until the supreme love pledge, the marriage
Ok, don call people that prefer a pure protagonist "weird"or "fetishist", what is the problem in wanting a pure girl?now i am abligated to choose a girl that slept with 2, 4 guys? Everyone says and call someone that prefer a pure girl "you weirdo fetishist" like if was wrong wanting a pure girl, of course there is much more to consider when you choose a person to stay by your side, if you like her you not gonna throw her off just because she is not a virgin, but if she is a virgin, bro, it is a happy adition some people would like to have, and the matter is that when you call someone weird cuz they want a pure lifemate you are part of the people that don care about giving you precious first experience to someone who doesn't even is confirmed to stay by your side forever, and this is cuz people who prefer pure protagonists are the one who will give (most of them) all their first experiences to their loved spouse, that means, they will keep themselves "safe" until the supreme love pledge, the marriage
Spoken like a true virgin. You live in a little bubble with childlike ideology. This is probably because you are also relgious, saying shit like "supreme love pledge, the marriage". Lol straight out of the bible. Luckily for you, you have a chance to steer away from this mindset and hopefully, don't fall into the incel category like some of these fools on here
