@joel7686 There are still places it isn't a crime and places where it is a crime but isn't really upheld. Something you seem to not understand. Legal slavery still exists in parts of the world and it is not my fault you are too ignorant to do a simple internet search. The only thing that should go in the garbage is your brain cause it is clearly defective.
Mushoku Tensei ~Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu~ - Vol. 12 Ch. 58 - Unspeakable Strength
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
@ninjadork "You are claiming that the entirety of the Western world spontaneously shifted towards individual liberty; there is no such thing as a massive, spontaneous shift in culture that upends millennia of practice - it has to come from somewhere. If you have an alternate explanation for where that came from, please share it with me.
I very clearly explained that the Bible was opposed to slavery from the start; if you have an issue with my claim please go back and respond to what I actually wrote instead of trying to put words in my mouth. The Church did not "end slavery" in a time frame that would please you because doing so would have required waging war against most of the known world; slavery was a profitable and/or useful institution that formed the basis of many economies, and many kingdoms / clans / tribes / etc absolutely would not abandon slavery until after centuries of proselytizing and missionary work. Considering how folks like you complain about Christians, I do not believe for a second that you would actually approve of said warfare. Your complaint about an "omni-everything deity" allowing this fails due to the same principal.
Also, see the first part of my reply to criver; you're missing a rather important piece of chronology here."
No, I don't claim that shift was spontaneous or instant. And it's still not massive as way too many people are living without the rights the west considers to be innate. Your words about putting words in your mouth are VERY ironic, considering that this is what you've been doing the whole time.
No, the bible was not against slavery at all. And no, you don't get to ignore the inconvenient bits of your book where it outright condones taking slaves from the war prisoners.
Why didn't your church end slavery in at least ONE country then? Because there were a lot of countries that were practically a theocracy and kings did what the church told them to do and ending slavery before 18th century somewhere would be easy.
The church did approve of war against muslims in the form of the crusades so does the church act on its principles only when there's profit to be had from it?
I complain about lots of things like senseless violence and human rights violations but also about outright history rewrites like yours. Because first of all, it's just lies and second, I don't want your religion in power. It's pretty simple.
And lastly. Your god is omnibenevolent but it let people suffer from slavery for CENTURIES if not thousands of years. It's omnipotent and omniscient but it couldn't find a way to get rid of slavery. It's a pretty evil or lazy god.
I very clearly explained that the Bible was opposed to slavery from the start; if you have an issue with my claim please go back and respond to what I actually wrote instead of trying to put words in my mouth. The Church did not "end slavery" in a time frame that would please you because doing so would have required waging war against most of the known world; slavery was a profitable and/or useful institution that formed the basis of many economies, and many kingdoms / clans / tribes / etc absolutely would not abandon slavery until after centuries of proselytizing and missionary work. Considering how folks like you complain about Christians, I do not believe for a second that you would actually approve of said warfare. Your complaint about an "omni-everything deity" allowing this fails due to the same principal.
Also, see the first part of my reply to criver; you're missing a rather important piece of chronology here."
No, I don't claim that shift was spontaneous or instant. And it's still not massive as way too many people are living without the rights the west considers to be innate. Your words about putting words in your mouth are VERY ironic, considering that this is what you've been doing the whole time.
No, the bible was not against slavery at all. And no, you don't get to ignore the inconvenient bits of your book where it outright condones taking slaves from the war prisoners.
Why didn't your church end slavery in at least ONE country then? Because there were a lot of countries that were practically a theocracy and kings did what the church told them to do and ending slavery before 18th century somewhere would be easy.
The church did approve of war against muslims in the form of the crusades so does the church act on its principles only when there's profit to be had from it?
I complain about lots of things like senseless violence and human rights violations but also about outright history rewrites like yours. Because first of all, it's just lies and second, I don't want your religion in power. It's pretty simple.
And lastly. Your god is omnibenevolent but it let people suffer from slavery for CENTURIES if not thousands of years. It's omnipotent and omniscient but it couldn't find a way to get rid of slavery. It's a pretty evil or lazy god.
@criver NK, China, and small African countries. NK you can be detained (generally for political reasons) to work if the regime wants. China has concentration camps for Muslims. Africa...do I really need to explain this one? Hell even in the US people like Kamala Harris have been accused of extending sentences for prisoners so they could be used as labor in prison. Can't use your brain just like the other guy.
@RCcola33 You seem to fail to realize what it means for slavery to be accepted (both legally and morally). In none of the countries you mentioned is slavery legal or morally accepted. This is precisely the reason why they have to justify it rather as a punishment for something (be it real or not). In the manga slavery is accepted - they do not need to justify it. There is a clear distinction.
@RCcola33
Believe it or not, people do not own slaves in NK, China, or Africa.
Also, this is not done openly. The populace is brainwashed to follow the cult leader and many people there believe that the political prisoners are indeed criminals. Not convinced? Go read history of socialism. Countries in Africa are a bit different, in the sense that it is not a degenerate version of socialism that ruins things, but rather corruption (there are laws, they are just ignored).
If that was correct there would be no laws banning slavery - this is not the case, so it is not legally acceptable. It is not morally acceptable either - people there do not own slaves. You simply didn't do your research before you brought up China, NK, and Africa.
Because this is the comment section for a specific chapter of the manga. If your point has no relation to it, you might as well post your philosophical musings in the adequate place.
@criver If my musing aren't allowed...then neither are your musings. Yet, you still responded to me talking about something other than the manga. Hmmm.
Brainwashing people into believing it is not slavery doesn't mean it isn't slavery or that they aren't okay with it. If I get you to eat an orange and you liked it cause I convinced you it was an apple, you still ate an orange and liked it. Better yet, here is a real example that happens in the West. People get others to believe that abortion isn't the taking of a life after a certain point in the pregnancy to support late abortions even though it is (regardless of whether you think abortion should happen or not). These people know what is going on, it is happening, and the people in charge of the legal stuff in the country are the ones doing it.
Also, If laws aren't upheld then it is morally/legally acceptable. If there are no legal repercussions and people are allowed to do these things when it is known they are doing these things, then they are acceptable in some way, shape, or form. Period.
Even if they "ban slavery," these governments still allow it in forms that people don't easily recognize as slavery. Simply saying that something is banned or that the government won't allow something doesn't do the trick. They actually have to go against it in all forms. Otherwise, it is still acceptable as I said. And they don't go against it in all forms. A good, real example of this was the Paris Climate deal a while back. Leaders signed to do better for the environment with no repercussions and no real promises.
If we use your poor logic of people don't believe it is slavery, we never had any slaves. Since many of the people who owned slaves thought of them as lesser. They rationalized the poor behavior by saying that they were better off being controlled and used than to be left to their own devices. They made it out like they were doing these people a favor. Pretending that people are being jailed cause they are criminals when they are actually political inconveniences is the same thing. They are excuses for legal slavery.
I also get the feeling you don't know what a slave is. A slave is someone who is involuntarily owned or controlled by another person. So, saying that people don't own slaves in these places is just irresponsible when you just said that NK tricks citizens into letting them take people.
You're just wrong man. You haven't even went against anything I've said with any proof. You just keep saying I'm wrong without anything to back you up.
Brainwashing people into believing it is not slavery doesn't mean it isn't slavery or that they aren't okay with it. If I get you to eat an orange and you liked it cause I convinced you it was an apple, you still ate an orange and liked it. Better yet, here is a real example that happens in the West. People get others to believe that abortion isn't the taking of a life after a certain point in the pregnancy to support late abortions even though it is (regardless of whether you think abortion should happen or not). These people know what is going on, it is happening, and the people in charge of the legal stuff in the country are the ones doing it.
Also, If laws aren't upheld then it is morally/legally acceptable. If there are no legal repercussions and people are allowed to do these things when it is known they are doing these things, then they are acceptable in some way, shape, or form. Period.
Even if they "ban slavery," these governments still allow it in forms that people don't easily recognize as slavery. Simply saying that something is banned or that the government won't allow something doesn't do the trick. They actually have to go against it in all forms. Otherwise, it is still acceptable as I said. And they don't go against it in all forms. A good, real example of this was the Paris Climate deal a while back. Leaders signed to do better for the environment with no repercussions and no real promises.
If we use your poor logic of people don't believe it is slavery, we never had any slaves. Since many of the people who owned slaves thought of them as lesser. They rationalized the poor behavior by saying that they were better off being controlled and used than to be left to their own devices. They made it out like they were doing these people a favor. Pretending that people are being jailed cause they are criminals when they are actually political inconveniences is the same thing. They are excuses for legal slavery.
I also get the feeling you don't know what a slave is. A slave is someone who is involuntarily owned or controlled by another person. So, saying that people don't own slaves in these places is just irresponsible when you just said that NK tricks citizens into letting them take people.
You're just wrong man. You haven't even went against anything I've said with any proof. You just keep saying I'm wrong without anything to back you up.
@RCcola33
https://books.google.de/books?id=GsruAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA43&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
So no it is not morally or legally accepted. Maybe in your head it is though, but I can't be bothered to entertain your ignorance anymore, especially considering you never had a point regarding the manga in the first place.
I was hoping you were trying to make a point about the manga. Unfortunately, this was not the case, and you just wanted to discuss your opinions on slavery, and apparently also on abortion.
Really?:
https://books.google.de/books?id=8Cw6EsO59aYC&pg=PA4&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://books.google.de/books?id=GsruAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA43&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
So no it is not morally or legally accepted. Maybe in your head it is though, but I can't be bothered to entertain your ignorance anymore, especially considering you never had a point regarding the manga in the first place.
@criver I have a point. You just can't defend your point. I gave you real examples so it would be easier for you to understand, but clearly even that couldn't help you. Also, I definitely don't want to talk to you about abortion considering how ignorant you are about slavery. Additionally, it isn't an opinion; it is a fact. A fetus doesn't just magically become a person the day it is birthed. Either way, go ahead and be an ignorant liar by saying you thought it was about the manga when I never mentioned it and not actually addressing any of my points. The only thing you did was come up with a brainwashing excuse and on repeat say I'm wrong with nothing. Nothing of value is lost from ending a conversation with you. So, bye!
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2019
- Messages
- 1,360
TLDR of this comment section : Retards act like they would still think 'muh slavery bad' after 15 years in a world where everyone is fine with them and would fight the systeme to end it despite never doing anything about the multiple countries IRL that still have slaves.
You'd all be buying slaves after 3 weeks of living there, your morals are so superficial, they'd change the second you're in a different society.
You'd all be buying slaves after 3 weeks of living there, your morals are so superficial, they'd change the second you're in a different society.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2019
- Messages
- 3,374
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2019
- Messages
- 38
@criver
RCcola33 makes more points than you. as noted just because it is already in a law does not mean that all forms of slavery is being punished and groups of people do it even if it is illegal, because it is ingrained in them that it is right (Middle east and places in ASIA). the world is not a world if you are gonna say it's only a few countries.....
@jimmyclear
thumbs up
. another who understands
@BalrogDeMorgoth
you would be right. but can you say it to yourself, mainly if it's a world where power is strength. so technically if you don't agree with others you beat them up, then if they don't agree also with you you also get beat up.
we're already lucky nowadays that we can actually just talk about this and not kill just for the sake of non conforming ideas
RCcola33 makes more points than you. as noted just because it is already in a law does not mean that all forms of slavery is being punished and groups of people do it even if it is illegal, because it is ingrained in them that it is right (Middle east and places in ASIA). the world is not a world if you are gonna say it's only a few countries.....
@jimmyclear
thumbs up
. another who understands@BalrogDeMorgoth
you would be right. but can you say it to yourself, mainly if it's a world where power is strength. so technically if you don't agree with others you beat them up, then if they don't agree also with you you also get beat up.
we're already lucky nowadays that we can actually just talk about this and not kill just for the sake of non conforming ideas
@gekigangerv
More is not better. RCcola33 makes more wrong points than me, namely:
Which I already quoted two studies on:
So he is objectively wrong.
Fyi, this is the person "making more points" than me:
More is not better. RCcola33 makes more wrong points than me, namely:
Which I already quoted two studies on:
So he is objectively wrong.
How about you scroll back up and read the convo? My point was never that any form of slavery is nonexistent nowadays, but rather that there's a distinction to be made. Slavery is nowadays considered both illegal and immoral, slavery is neither illegal nor immoral in the manga. RCcola33 simply fails to make the distinction.
Fyi, this is the person "making more points" than me:
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- May 18, 2018
- Messages
- 649
I wonder how free people have to be in order to get triggered over a fiction. A manga, no less.
Member
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2019
- Messages
- 18
@hakive they needed specifically a swarf child slave which the slave trader said they only had one. Besides, although it is a totally messed up scene, the ethics of the fantasy world is much different than our world. Rudeus knows that and definitely doesn't ignore the other crying kids, but he's reluctantly adapting their view on slaves to theirs. You can see that he is not completely fine with it all as he thinks about his confused thought about buying a slave in the first place.
Imo, I enjoyed Rudeus reaching out his hand and giving her the choice of life.
Imo, I enjoyed Rudeus reaching out his hand and giving her the choice of life.
Member
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2019
- Messages
- 43
The thing I like best about this manga that separates it from others of the isekai genre is moments like these where we get reminders of who Rudeus was. Too many isekai a character plops into a new world claiming to be an ordinary guy from an ordinary life and then proceed to do ridiculously fantastical things like knowing off the top of their head the process of producing dynamite. I will always remember the moment Rudeus had his mental breakdown and completely withdrew into himself. He's grown a lot compared to the old version of himself, but it's still a part of him and the manga lets that side show every now and then.
Similar threads
