Aggregator gang
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2018
- Messages
- 929
Actually tis slavery thing is quite a big factor in that world and one of that ties well with some minor characters later in the story.
Mushoku Tensei ~Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu~ - Vol. 12 Ch. 58 - Unspeakable Strength
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Aggregator gang
- Joined
- May 24, 2019
- Messages
- 626
Holy shit is the hypocrisy in the comment section delicious.
MMmmmMmmMMMmmmmm
Not as delicious as "I Shaved, Then I Brought a Highschool Girl" comment section level of hypocrisy and incel tears though.
MMmmmMmmMMMmmmmm
Not as delicious as "I Shaved, Then I Brought a Highschool Girl" comment section level of hypocrisy and incel tears though.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2018
- Messages
- 2,963
@WillLi The whole fucking bit with him talking to the loli and buying her is portrayed as an heroic act on Rudeus part. It's not just "good thing we got what we wanted", the story is clearly trying to portray Rudeus in a positive light for saving the loli, which clashes against the fact that you just were shown all the children he choose not to save. You can save someone without being a hero but you are totally meant to see him as heroic for doing that. I honestly don't give a flying fuck about morality or slavery (which is why I'm not complaining that Sylphy or Zanoba didn't give a shit) but what I do care about is hypocrisy, but from Rudeus and from the author, and this whole thing reeks of hipocrisy, though, honestly, nearly every other "MC buys a slave loli" scene in isekai suffers from the same issue.
I'm not denying depression or claiming it's a meaningless thing (I will admit I talked about it in a kind of shitty way, though), my point is that there is clear difference between having everything you could possible need and the potential to do whatever you want and not being able to do it because of a mental condition that makes you feel like it's all worthless and being in a situation where you have nothing, you are trated as less than human and even if you try to do something, it won't matter because not even all the determination in the world will get you out of the hole other people threw you in. I do know the MC became a shut-in due to depression (I think he got mocked for trying to act like a hero or something like that, it has been a while since I read the novel and I don't really remember what was the reason they gave) but I feel that trying to claim that excusing his shittiness with depression just lessens the impact of his decision to become a better person, since it means he didn't really admit his flaws and sought to change them but rather was put in a situation in which he overcome the abnormal emotional state he was in. You might be right and I might have interpreted it poorly, but up till this point it felt like the story wasn't denying Rudeus' shittiness was 100% his fault and not that of his circumstances or him suffering from depression.
And when you draw parallels to a situation the way he did without even insinuating there is any difference, you do imply they are similar (a lot of people IRL even get in trouble over similar comparisons). He is not just using himself as an vague example, he is outright saying he was someone like her, something that requires him to pretty much ignore everything that makes their circumstances widly different.
I'm not denying depression or claiming it's a meaningless thing (I will admit I talked about it in a kind of shitty way, though), my point is that there is clear difference between having everything you could possible need and the potential to do whatever you want and not being able to do it because of a mental condition that makes you feel like it's all worthless and being in a situation where you have nothing, you are trated as less than human and even if you try to do something, it won't matter because not even all the determination in the world will get you out of the hole other people threw you in. I do know the MC became a shut-in due to depression (I think he got mocked for trying to act like a hero or something like that, it has been a while since I read the novel and I don't really remember what was the reason they gave) but I feel that trying to claim that excusing his shittiness with depression just lessens the impact of his decision to become a better person, since it means he didn't really admit his flaws and sought to change them but rather was put in a situation in which he overcome the abnormal emotional state he was in. You might be right and I might have interpreted it poorly, but up till this point it felt like the story wasn't denying Rudeus' shittiness was 100% his fault and not that of his circumstances or him suffering from depression.
And when you draw parallels to a situation the way he did without even insinuating there is any difference, you do imply they are similar (a lot of people IRL even get in trouble over similar comparisons). He is not just using himself as an vague example, he is outright saying he was someone like her, something that requires him to pretty much ignore everything that makes their circumstances widly different.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2018
- Messages
- 113
Supporter
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2018
- Messages
- 235
@HYBRID_BEING I can get that, and it's one thing that I have an issue with when it comes to this manga and those like it. Rudy spent his entire (new) life in this world. Over time, the memories of his old life would get replaced to the point he doesn't even remember where he came from or who he was in his previous life. This all being said, that means that our morals would get replaced with this worlds morals. Plus, as others have mentioned, Rudy was never made out to be a great person. His own morality is already skewed compared to the people around him.
With all of that, the main issue right now is people asserting themselves into fictional media. People thinking too highly of themselves that they think all things should align with how they think and getting mad when it doesn't. Not trying to say people shouldn't bring up issues that they see, instead that people should see things from a different point of view.
Finally, before anyone else replies, I get it. Rudy has a literal God watching over him, which probably explains why he hasn't forgotten his previous life. It's just a plot point that I personally don't like.
With all of that, the main issue right now is people asserting themselves into fictional media. People thinking too highly of themselves that they think all things should align with how they think and getting mad when it doesn't. Not trying to say people shouldn't bring up issues that they see, instead that people should see things from a different point of view.
Finally, before anyone else replies, I get it. Rudy has a literal God watching over him, which probably explains why he hasn't forgotten his previous life. It's just a plot point that I personally don't like.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 1,806
@adfjs I'm just following up with the dumb analogy I used in the post I got replied to. Now you know you're just being silly for taking a dumb analogy that makes no sense, literally.
@WillLi Exactly. It's not starvation. My point with the burgers is neets are being over dramatized. But I'm not gonna follow up your nitpick on the scripts' words.
With this I'm back to what I said with my first post without all the play on words. *shrug
@WillLi Exactly. It's not starvation. My point with the burgers is neets are being over dramatized. But I'm not gonna follow up your nitpick on the scripts' words.
With this I'm back to what I said with my first post without all the play on words. *shrug
@Acolytus They are portraying the single action he is doing as heroic, which it is. That doesn't mean though they are trying to say that "This single action makes Rudeus a total hero and awesome and better than everyone and above reproach." The manga itself drew our attention to the other slaves, deliberately, and gave us some close up shots. And highlighted that the kids were in worse conditions that what we saw the adults it. They wanted us to know clearly that there were more slaves that Rudeus wasn't even glancing at. Or do you think you're some kinda psychic that can see tings in a manga that the author and artist didn't show you on purpose? You only know those slaves are there and suffering because the author wants you to know. He wants you to see Rudeus' hypocrisy. If he wanted us to think of Rudy as a hero, Rudy would've saved the girl from some bad owners and she'd have been the only slave they owned, or at least the only one we knew about.
And your second paragraph, you totally miss the point. No one is saying that Rudeus' situation was the same as the girl's. Like I said to the other guy. Rudeus is talking about -feeling-. How the girl felt about life and how he felt. It doesn't matter if Rudy's feelings are 'justified' or where they came from. He is merely saying his -feelings- were the same then as the girl's now. Not that their experiences are equal. Hell Rudy himself even says that he was a garbage human. So unless you're saying he thinks this girl is garbage too, then he isn't comparing their situations. Go reread the first chapter, he is not excusing himself in his previous life, he absolutely hates his previous self and makes no excuses for how he acted. And that is true now, he didn't say anything he did back then was good, he simply said that is did it, he stated a fact. He doesn't condone his behavior or feelings from back then.
And as for parallels, you'd be right, if he was talking to people. The only thing he said to other's is "I've seen it before" reflecting on his past self was to himself. He didn't need to differentiate things because he already knew what he was talking about cause he was talking to himself. Do you explain to yourself in your head the differences between two things every time you think "Well these things are similar"? Pretty sure you don't. And they didn't explain it to the readers, because they gave credit to the readers to remember the whole theme of this story "Redoing my life as a better person, because I was trash before". They thought you would remember Rudy hates his past life. And didn't think you'd take a logic leap into assuming they're trying to justify Rudy.
@Redice the script is there for a reason. If you're not going to read what the script actually says, and instead make up your own stuff, go write your own book.
And your second paragraph, you totally miss the point. No one is saying that Rudeus' situation was the same as the girl's. Like I said to the other guy. Rudeus is talking about -feeling-. How the girl felt about life and how he felt. It doesn't matter if Rudy's feelings are 'justified' or where they came from. He is merely saying his -feelings- were the same then as the girl's now. Not that their experiences are equal. Hell Rudy himself even says that he was a garbage human. So unless you're saying he thinks this girl is garbage too, then he isn't comparing their situations. Go reread the first chapter, he is not excusing himself in his previous life, he absolutely hates his previous self and makes no excuses for how he acted. And that is true now, he didn't say anything he did back then was good, he simply said that is did it, he stated a fact. He doesn't condone his behavior or feelings from back then.
And as for parallels, you'd be right, if he was talking to people. The only thing he said to other's is "I've seen it before" reflecting on his past self was to himself. He didn't need to differentiate things because he already knew what he was talking about cause he was talking to himself. Do you explain to yourself in your head the differences between two things every time you think "Well these things are similar"? Pretty sure you don't. And they didn't explain it to the readers, because they gave credit to the readers to remember the whole theme of this story "Redoing my life as a better person, because I was trash before". They thought you would remember Rudy hates his past life. And didn't think you'd take a logic leap into assuming they're trying to justify Rudy.
@Redice the script is there for a reason. If you're not going to read what the script actually says, and instead make up your own stuff, go write your own book.
@Acolytus You simply don't understand depression, man. That's just not how it works. You can be as rich as Bill Gates and still feel just as depressed as a slave. That's why depression's a big pain. Anybody trying to downplay the situation simply knows nothing of what's going on and trying to reason with a depressed person like that will only make them shut themselves even further.
Again, Rudeus can't save everyone. He can buy everyone and then what? There would still be more child slaves on the continent. Should he buy them too? What about the elderly? Surely he should buy them for the same reason. Where should he get the money to provide for them all though? Should he exterminate all the dragons even though they're fairly rare in most areas except for when they flock and can actually kill him? And since it's been brought up in this chapter, even if he managed to overcome these problems, that doesn't do anything with their will to live so he won't really "save" them. Meanwhile, slavers get richer and since he's making the demand higher, get more slaves. Or do you suggest he kill every slaver in the world? Even though he'll be branded a wanted man since they're officially legal merchants? That will lead to a path that will be spoiler-heavy but in case you're curious,
Should we just ignore the fact that he's at least able to save someone in the most wholesome way possible in the situation?
There is literally nothing else he can do here. Give the guy some slack.
Again, Rudeus can't save everyone. He can buy everyone and then what? There would still be more child slaves on the continent. Should he buy them too? What about the elderly? Surely he should buy them for the same reason. Where should he get the money to provide for them all though? Should he exterminate all the dragons even though they're fairly rare in most areas except for when they flock and can actually kill him? And since it's been brought up in this chapter, even if he managed to overcome these problems, that doesn't do anything with their will to live so he won't really "save" them. Meanwhile, slavers get richer and since he's making the demand higher, get more slaves. Or do you suggest he kill every slaver in the world? Even though he'll be branded a wanted man since they're officially legal merchants? That will lead to a path that will be spoiler-heavy but in case you're curious,
it won't end good for him nor anyone cares about. If he starts getting heavy-handed,
everyone dies and I'm not talking about the slavers.
There is literally nothing else he can do here. Give the guy some slack.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 1,806
@WillLi Yeah, sure kid. Maybe try it again with the japanese script this time, with all the connotations on kanji and stuff like that that japanese likes to do. Be a scholar of the whole thing and maybe, maybe, I'll stop calling what you do "nit picking".
Related to this thread's whole shenanigan.
Related to this thread's whole shenanigan.
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 1,139
@JaffaOrange
Of course, but the one I responded to never made a point in favour of slavery?
@Acolytus
You're reading a genre that almost always has to have a good and a bad. Not grey sides. And you expect the hero to be without fault. To be a hero, and to be an ideal. And lashing out against him when the ideal image is broken, however small that crack is. You remind me of a certain character, and you haven't suffered a betrayal that left you in need of permanent dialysis, so you don't have the same justifications she had for acting as she did.
Not saying that Rudy is a hero, since not even he considers himself one.
Also, my 2 cents for this entire shitstorm with slavery? It has been, and will continue to be discussed to death in places like /a/. Seriously, if you manage to bait anonymous with an slavery discussion, you can easily fill one or two threads before the mods come in like a wrecking ball.
Of course, but the one I responded to never made a point in favour of slavery?
@Acolytus
You're reading a genre that almost always has to have a good and a bad. Not grey sides. And you expect the hero to be without fault. To be a hero, and to be an ideal. And lashing out against him when the ideal image is broken, however small that crack is. You remind me of a certain character, and you haven't suffered a betrayal that left you in need of permanent dialysis, so you don't have the same justifications she had for acting as she did.
Not saying that Rudy is a hero, since not even he considers himself one.
Also, my 2 cents for this entire shitstorm with slavery? It has been, and will continue to be discussed to death in places like /a/. Seriously, if you manage to bait anonymous with an slavery discussion, you can easily fill one or two threads before the mods come in like a wrecking ball.
@Acolytus Just to clarify, him buying her isn't what saved her. It's the fact that he made her want to live and verbalize it. He can dress her like a princess, buy her stuff like a princess, treat her like a princess, etc. but it doesn't mean anything if the person herself sees no meaning to her existence. It's nothing more than dressing up a doll who is waiting for her heart to stop beating.
@Redice Based on your level of reading comprehension, I'm probably older than you. And if I'm not...well it wasn't my generation that got the bad education. The simple fact is, no where does Rudy compare his actual life to the girl's life. He doesn't even know what happened to her. Everyone's talking about her losing her parents and being stolen into slavery, but unless you've read the novel you don't actually know that, you're just guess. For all Rudy knows the girl could've sold herself into slavery and then it not just go how she wanted. Not saying that's the case, but saying that's how little info Rudy has. Why would Rudy be trying to compare his life (to which he openly admits a lot of his problems were his fault, and that he was acting like trash) to a person he literally knows nothing about. That would be like seeing a homeless person and then trying to say you lived a similar life to him. You have no idea what so ever. The homeless person could've been a war vet, a social outcast, millionaire who fell from grace, anything. Up until this point Rudy has never tried to say that his previous life was some kinda injustice against him, why would he break character and randomly start now?
Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2018
- Messages
- 186
How much for the amazonian woman?
Asking for a friend.
Asking for a friend.
Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2018
- Messages
- 307
Babyyyy
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 1,139
@Cellulanus
Sadly, an legit answer to this question would be the favelas of Brazil. Actual trigger warnings, beware.
@4V29LN0n
It's an easy trope that helps shoehorn a partner (generally a loli one) that will grow to become dependant on the MC. That's how the trope usually goes.
I think this entire scene handles the trope pretty well, though. Look at the little things.
Sadly, an legit answer to this question would be the favelas of Brazil. Actual trigger warnings, beware.
Some of the families there prostitute themselves (as in, any member of the family) to rich tourists for money. Buying a daughter or son isn't that abnormal in situations like that.
@4V29LN0n
It's an easy trope that helps shoehorn a partner (generally a loli one) that will grow to become dependant on the MC. That's how the trope usually goes.
I think this entire scene handles the trope pretty well, though. Look at the little things.
Similar threads
