Musume no Tomodachi - Vol. 5 Ch. 36 - Each Person's Epiphany
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@Sonaldo
>Please conveniently ignore my comment about the hole filling part okay?
That's exactly what I was addressing, if all he wanted to do was emotionally support her he wouldn't need to wait until she was older. He could just serve as a reliable adult figure instead of trying to make their relationship romantic. There's a manga called "After the Rain" that recognizes this and it works out way better for the characters involved because they actually grow from the experience instead of using each other as emotional crutches.
>Which he responded by aggressively having sex with Koto right? Wait. That doesn't happen. Instead he fucking declined her offer for sex. If he wants sex only, he could've got it then. And by waiting till she's an adult is due to legal and moral reasons.
I don't think you understand what sexual tension means. I never said he didn't decline her, but just because he declines her offer that doesn't negate the presence of the sexual tension in those scenes.
Pay attention to how the mangaka frames those scenes and Kousuke's expressions, it's clearly illustrated that he's holding back.
And the internal monoglue he has in chapter 17 explicitly has him state he wants to date her as soon as she graduates high school.
>That's why many teenager have sex and start relationship at that age right? Like come on dude. 16 is old enough to have sex in the US but too young to have a relationship?
And how many of those work out? Do you realize that only a minuscule of high school relationships last? They're not the golden standard for romance by any means. And it's like you're not even reading the post you reply to. I said "Knowing about things =/= to being able to engage in them responsibly" Teens having relationships with each other is apart of adolescence and growing up. Most of those relationships will fail, but that's the point. The experiences gained from them are carried upon as they move on. It's not appropriate for an Adult who's already been through all of that to try and date a teen that's still trying to figure all of those emotions out. It makes it too easy for emotional manipulation to occur and that leads to parasitic relationships.
>16 is old enough to have sex in the US but too young to have a relationship? What the? I suppose you never formed close relationship in you teenage years because you're too young?
When did I ever say this or even imply this? Teens having relationships with each other is fine.
>TIL that having issues mean you're immature. That means everyone is immature since everyone have issues. Lol what? Look at how she handled her issues and compare them to how Kousuke daughter handled her's. Now tell me she's immature.
Once again, you've poorly misinterpreted my words. It's all about how you deal with those problems that shows your level of maturity. Many people go through emotional turmoil, such as Kousuke's mid-life crisis or Koto's abusive household. But how these obstacles are dealt with and the resulting growth(if any is had) demonstrates a person's emotional maturity. Koto's actions are not only indicative of her being emotionally compromised, but are just as extremely childish as Miya's the only reason I can guess at why you or anyone would think Koto is "mature" is because she has a calmer demeanor when she does these things(because for whatever reasons people will confuse composure for maturity). They're the exact same brand of childish naivety, stunted development, and daddy issues shown through different lenses.
>Sure it does. You can groom all 6 years old but you cant groom all 16 year olds since some of them are more mature and grown up than others.
This is actual predatory thinking. "she's mature for her age so it's not grooming" do you hear yourself? Koto isn't even 16 she's 14/15 at most and is not mature by any means.
>If you tell me Koto is being groomed than I really dont know what to tell you then. You do you.
Really? A freshman high school student having a relationship with a guy in his mid 30s to early 40s isn't looking like grooming to you?
>Is Koto the norm now?
Yes, because she's still immature af. In that comment I was speaking for adults.
>blaming Kousuke and calling him pedophile, accusing him of grooming is too far out okay?
In the earlier chapters I was on his side, but now it's clear that he's a pathetic dude. All he had to do was walk away from everything and seek help or just learn to stand up for himself every now and then and he would've been fine.
Instead he acts like he's not a grown ass man who had a wife and kid and cries for a high school girl to solve his problems. I can't even believe this character was able to get this far in life with how badly he copes with stress.
But I'm starting to suspect his wife basically carried him through everything.
>Please conveniently ignore my comment about the hole filling part okay?
That's exactly what I was addressing, if all he wanted to do was emotionally support her he wouldn't need to wait until she was older. He could just serve as a reliable adult figure instead of trying to make their relationship romantic. There's a manga called "After the Rain" that recognizes this and it works out way better for the characters involved because they actually grow from the experience instead of using each other as emotional crutches.
>Which he responded by aggressively having sex with Koto right? Wait. That doesn't happen. Instead he fucking declined her offer for sex. If he wants sex only, he could've got it then. And by waiting till she's an adult is due to legal and moral reasons.
I don't think you understand what sexual tension means. I never said he didn't decline her, but just because he declines her offer that doesn't negate the presence of the sexual tension in those scenes.
Pay attention to how the mangaka frames those scenes and Kousuke's expressions, it's clearly illustrated that he's holding back.
And the internal monoglue he has in chapter 17 explicitly has him state he wants to date her as soon as she graduates high school.
>That's why many teenager have sex and start relationship at that age right? Like come on dude. 16 is old enough to have sex in the US but too young to have a relationship?
And how many of those work out? Do you realize that only a minuscule of high school relationships last? They're not the golden standard for romance by any means. And it's like you're not even reading the post you reply to. I said "Knowing about things =/= to being able to engage in them responsibly" Teens having relationships with each other is apart of adolescence and growing up. Most of those relationships will fail, but that's the point. The experiences gained from them are carried upon as they move on. It's not appropriate for an Adult who's already been through all of that to try and date a teen that's still trying to figure all of those emotions out. It makes it too easy for emotional manipulation to occur and that leads to parasitic relationships.
>16 is old enough to have sex in the US but too young to have a relationship? What the? I suppose you never formed close relationship in you teenage years because you're too young?
When did I ever say this or even imply this? Teens having relationships with each other is fine.
>TIL that having issues mean you're immature. That means everyone is immature since everyone have issues. Lol what? Look at how she handled her issues and compare them to how Kousuke daughter handled her's. Now tell me she's immature.
Once again, you've poorly misinterpreted my words. It's all about how you deal with those problems that shows your level of maturity. Many people go through emotional turmoil, such as Kousuke's mid-life crisis or Koto's abusive household. But how these obstacles are dealt with and the resulting growth(if any is had) demonstrates a person's emotional maturity. Koto's actions are not only indicative of her being emotionally compromised, but are just as extremely childish as Miya's the only reason I can guess at why you or anyone would think Koto is "mature" is because she has a calmer demeanor when she does these things(because for whatever reasons people will confuse composure for maturity). They're the exact same brand of childish naivety, stunted development, and daddy issues shown through different lenses.
>Sure it does. You can groom all 6 years old but you cant groom all 16 year olds since some of them are more mature and grown up than others.
This is actual predatory thinking. "she's mature for her age so it's not grooming" do you hear yourself? Koto isn't even 16 she's 14/15 at most and is not mature by any means.
>If you tell me Koto is being groomed than I really dont know what to tell you then. You do you.
Really? A freshman high school student having a relationship with a guy in his mid 30s to early 40s isn't looking like grooming to you?
>Is Koto the norm now?
Yes, because she's still immature af. In that comment I was speaking for adults.
>blaming Kousuke and calling him pedophile, accusing him of grooming is too far out okay?
In the earlier chapters I was on his side, but now it's clear that he's a pathetic dude. All he had to do was walk away from everything and seek help or just learn to stand up for himself every now and then and he would've been fine.
Instead he acts like he's not a grown ass man who had a wife and kid and cries for a high school girl to solve his problems. I can't even believe this character was able to get this far in life with how badly he copes with stress.
But I'm starting to suspect his wife basically carried him through everything.
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@flaine
>"He could just serve as a reliable adult figure instead of trying to make their relationship romantic"
Which I agree except for one thing. He's not a reliable adult due to all the issues in his life. Compare his experience with the mmc of After the Rain and tell me he doesn't have it worst.
>"it's clearly illustrated that he's holding back."
This is some "the curtain is blue because the author is feeling sad" bullshit. What if I suggested he never had those kind of feelings in the first place? Like for real, he declined the offer for sex. Now why would the author do that?
>"Koto's actions are not only indicative of her being emotionally compromised, but are just as extremely childish as Miya"
You really love to just say things without evidence huh?
"They're the exact same brand of childish naivety, stunted development, and daddy issues shown through different lenses"
Like what are your justifications for this argument? She's calm in handling her problem so she is immature? But Kousuke daughter doesn't handle her problems calmly. Like seriously, how is the way Koto handled her problem even similar to Miya?
>"she's 14/15 at most and is not mature by any means."
Wow. Her age decreased huh? Shocking.
>"A freshman high school student having a relationship with a guy in his mid 30s to early 40s isn't looking like grooming to you?"
No because he clearly isn't looking for sex, wanted to wait till she's an adult and rejected her offer of relationship in the past.
>"All he had to do was walk away from everything and seek help or just learn to stand up for himself every now and then and he would've been fine.
Instead he acts like he's not a grown ass man who had a wife and kid and cries for a high school girl to solve his problems. "
I see. That's why he went to Koto when Miya ran away from home. And why he went to Koto to help him get his daughter out of her room for the past few years. And why he doesn't stop his relationship with Koto when his daughter disagreed with it. And why he refuse to move to the country side to stay away from Koto. Wow. You and I are reading a completely different manga now. How about you reread it without letting your mind clouded by those pessimistic thoughts. Or dont. Maybe hating on character with real life issues are you thing.
>"He could just serve as a reliable adult figure instead of trying to make their relationship romantic"
Which I agree except for one thing. He's not a reliable adult due to all the issues in his life. Compare his experience with the mmc of After the Rain and tell me he doesn't have it worst.
>"it's clearly illustrated that he's holding back."
This is some "the curtain is blue because the author is feeling sad" bullshit. What if I suggested he never had those kind of feelings in the first place? Like for real, he declined the offer for sex. Now why would the author do that?
>"Koto's actions are not only indicative of her being emotionally compromised, but are just as extremely childish as Miya"
You really love to just say things without evidence huh?
"They're the exact same brand of childish naivety, stunted development, and daddy issues shown through different lenses"
Like what are your justifications for this argument? She's calm in handling her problem so she is immature? But Kousuke daughter doesn't handle her problems calmly. Like seriously, how is the way Koto handled her problem even similar to Miya?
>"she's 14/15 at most and is not mature by any means."
Wow. Her age decreased huh? Shocking.
>"A freshman high school student having a relationship with a guy in his mid 30s to early 40s isn't looking like grooming to you?"
No because he clearly isn't looking for sex, wanted to wait till she's an adult and rejected her offer of relationship in the past.
>"All he had to do was walk away from everything and seek help or just learn to stand up for himself every now and then and he would've been fine.
Instead he acts like he's not a grown ass man who had a wife and kid and cries for a high school girl to solve his problems. "
I see. That's why he went to Koto when Miya ran away from home. And why he went to Koto to help him get his daughter out of her room for the past few years. And why he doesn't stop his relationship with Koto when his daughter disagreed with it. And why he refuse to move to the country side to stay away from Koto. Wow. You and I are reading a completely different manga now. How about you reread it without letting your mind clouded by those pessimistic thoughts. Or dont. Maybe hating on character with real life issues are you thing.
@Solando
>Which I agree except for one thing. He's not a reliable adult due to all the issues in his life.
You're literally just agreeing with what I said, the keyword there was "could".
> This is some "the curtain is blue because the author is feeling sad" bullshit. What if I suggested he never had those kind of feelings in the first place? Like for real, he declined the offer for sex. Now why would the author do that?
Subtext is a strawman now? Not everything is explicit. If it was an easy choice for him to reject Koto's advances he would've done so immediately she mounted him in the train or undressed in the hotel. Instead we get multiple panels going back and forth between them highlighting the tension in those moments.
As much as you want to deny it this isn't a blue curtains moment.
>You really love to just say things without evidence huh?
Literally all her actions in this story are the result of her trying to get away from her abusive mother by using Kousuke as an escape.
If that isn't an example of an emotionally compromised person to you then you don't know what emotionally compromised means.
Where do you think the drama in the story is coming from?
> Like seriously, how is the way Koto handled her problem even similar to Miya?
She runs away from and ignores her problems(her mother and negligent father) to hang out with Kousuke the same way Miya does(opening up to her father about stress at school and her mother's passing) to hang out with the dude from school.
If the multiple scenes of Koto seducing Kousuke or the scene in the alley where she reveals their relationship to Miya and the others don't register as odd behavior for a teenage girl to you then you must have a very skewed view of teenagers.
Koto's character is basically the psychological hangups of Asuka with the demeanor of Rei.
>Like what are your justifications for this argument?
Seriously just pick up some developmental psychology books and look at how children respond to various forms of abuse.
>She's calm in handling her problem so she is immature?
You completely misunderstood point of that sentence and I don't see how it could be put more simply.
>Wow. Her age decreased huh? Shocking.
I don't know where you got Koto is 16 from, but you messed that up in the first place. I didn't bother checking til later, but Koto and Miya have always been 14/15.
We know that Miya just entered highschool and in japan that starts at the ages of 14/15.
In chapter 17 right after Koto kisses him Kousuke thinks "I can go out with her after she graduates from high school 3 years later" that implies that Koto's 14 or 15. Not that either makes his case any better.
>No because he clearly isn't looking for sex, wanted to wait till she's an adult and rejected her offer of relationship in the past.
At the present chapter and even in a past one Kousuke has considered dating her when she's older. This is literal grooming.
If you meet a kid, befriend them and have the intention of later on turning that relationship into something romantic you're grooming.
It was grooming when R. Kelley did it, it's grooming when Drake does it, and it's sure as hell the case here.
And I'm not saying that ALL he's looking for is sex, but if he wasn't looking for sex at all he would not need to wait, there's literally no other reason their relationship couldn't just be platonic and emotionally fulfilling.
You don't need to put off your feelings for someone unless you feel wrong about it and Kousuke obviously does.
> And why he doesn't stop his relationship with Koto when his daughter disagreed with it.
lol at this selective memory, this very chapter we are commenting on right now has him STILL considering dating her again after all this bs.
>Maybe hating on character with real life issues are you thing.
I can sympathize when it's a character that's being handed the short end of the stick while trying to deal with these things rationally.
This MC is starting to tip the line into straight retardation, he's chasing the salaryman's equivalent of the "manic pixie dream girl" and doesn't see the obvious pitfall ahead of him.
In moments where he's stressed and thinking under pressure bad decisions make sense, but in times where he's given breathing room to be more rational he still made poor decisions that got him further tangled into this fiasco. If he can shape up and get himself out of this and grow as a character I'd come around to liking him again for sure, but at this point I can't tell.
>Which I agree except for one thing. He's not a reliable adult due to all the issues in his life.
You're literally just agreeing with what I said, the keyword there was "could".
> This is some "the curtain is blue because the author is feeling sad" bullshit. What if I suggested he never had those kind of feelings in the first place? Like for real, he declined the offer for sex. Now why would the author do that?
Subtext is a strawman now? Not everything is explicit. If it was an easy choice for him to reject Koto's advances he would've done so immediately she mounted him in the train or undressed in the hotel. Instead we get multiple panels going back and forth between them highlighting the tension in those moments.
As much as you want to deny it this isn't a blue curtains moment.
>You really love to just say things without evidence huh?
Literally all her actions in this story are the result of her trying to get away from her abusive mother by using Kousuke as an escape.
If that isn't an example of an emotionally compromised person to you then you don't know what emotionally compromised means.
Where do you think the drama in the story is coming from?
> Like seriously, how is the way Koto handled her problem even similar to Miya?
She runs away from and ignores her problems(her mother and negligent father) to hang out with Kousuke the same way Miya does(opening up to her father about stress at school and her mother's passing) to hang out with the dude from school.
If the multiple scenes of Koto seducing Kousuke or the scene in the alley where she reveals their relationship to Miya and the others don't register as odd behavior for a teenage girl to you then you must have a very skewed view of teenagers.
Koto's character is basically the psychological hangups of Asuka with the demeanor of Rei.
>Like what are your justifications for this argument?
Seriously just pick up some developmental psychology books and look at how children respond to various forms of abuse.
>She's calm in handling her problem so she is immature?
You completely misunderstood point of that sentence and I don't see how it could be put more simply.
>Wow. Her age decreased huh? Shocking.
I don't know where you got Koto is 16 from, but you messed that up in the first place. I didn't bother checking til later, but Koto and Miya have always been 14/15.
We know that Miya just entered highschool and in japan that starts at the ages of 14/15.
In chapter 17 right after Koto kisses him Kousuke thinks "I can go out with her after she graduates from high school 3 years later" that implies that Koto's 14 or 15. Not that either makes his case any better.
>No because he clearly isn't looking for sex, wanted to wait till she's an adult and rejected her offer of relationship in the past.
At the present chapter and even in a past one Kousuke has considered dating her when she's older. This is literal grooming.
If you meet a kid, befriend them and have the intention of later on turning that relationship into something romantic you're grooming.
It was grooming when R. Kelley did it, it's grooming when Drake does it, and it's sure as hell the case here.
And I'm not saying that ALL he's looking for is sex, but if he wasn't looking for sex at all he would not need to wait, there's literally no other reason their relationship couldn't just be platonic and emotionally fulfilling.
You don't need to put off your feelings for someone unless you feel wrong about it and Kousuke obviously does.
> And why he doesn't stop his relationship with Koto when his daughter disagreed with it.
lol at this selective memory, this very chapter we are commenting on right now has him STILL considering dating her again after all this bs.
>Maybe hating on character with real life issues are you thing.
I can sympathize when it's a character that's being handed the short end of the stick while trying to deal with these things rationally.
This MC is starting to tip the line into straight retardation, he's chasing the salaryman's equivalent of the "manic pixie dream girl" and doesn't see the obvious pitfall ahead of him.
In moments where he's stressed and thinking under pressure bad decisions make sense, but in times where he's given breathing room to be more rational he still made poor decisions that got him further tangled into this fiasco. If he can shape up and get himself out of this and grow as a character I'd come around to liking him again for sure, but at this point I can't tell.
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lmao
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lawl, ppl actually thinking 16 years olds are "mature enough".. jfc the self-inserters are desperate to justify the dad to fck the underage girl
and Koko might even be younger that 16, 14-15, wew lad
@flaine fighting the good fight man, but it's hard to get self-inserters to see reason. Once they self-insert into a character, there is no wrong and they go full defensive: adults sleeping with kids is totally cool as long as they can self-insert either into an underage boy x adult woman or adult man x underage girl -_-
and Koko might even be younger that 16, 14-15, wew lad
@flaine fighting the good fight man, but it's hard to get self-inserters to see reason. Once they self-insert into a character, there is no wrong and they go full defensive: adults sleeping with kids is totally cool as long as they can self-insert either into an underage boy x adult woman or adult man x underage girl -_-
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@sonaldo
lool youre seriously calling the *daughter* a thot? Shes not the one trying to fuck a middle aged man, she's done nothing to be called a thot. Shes acting like a depressed teenager. Why is it ok for Koto to be a teenager and act on her feelings but not for his daughter? Why is Koto's behavior valid but not the daughter? He didn't see his wife because hes weak. He doesnt know how to say no to people and let people who used him as a doormat take priority over his wife. He's using his balls to ditch out on work stuff to see Koto, but didnt put that effort in for his own wife? Give me a break. Why are you defending Koto so much? The father is being severely inappropriate and is once again choosing others over his family. Don't act like he and koto are the vicims.
lool youre seriously calling the *daughter* a thot? Shes not the one trying to fuck a middle aged man, she's done nothing to be called a thot. Shes acting like a depressed teenager. Why is it ok for Koto to be a teenager and act on her feelings but not for his daughter? Why is Koto's behavior valid but not the daughter? He didn't see his wife because hes weak. He doesnt know how to say no to people and let people who used him as a doormat take priority over his wife. He's using his balls to ditch out on work stuff to see Koto, but didnt put that effort in for his own wife? Give me a break. Why are you defending Koto so much? The father is being severely inappropriate and is once again choosing others over his family. Don't act like he and koto are the vicims.
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@voidox
Lol at the self inserters. I mean who wouldn't want to be depressed middle aged salaryman with a problematic child right?. I'm still in college right now and you're totally projecting. And adult sleeping with kids? Yep. Totally happening in this manga. Seriously dude. Are we reading the same manga here or are you projecting too hard?
Lol at the self inserters. I mean who wouldn't want to be depressed middle aged salaryman with a problematic child right?. I'm still in college right now and you're totally projecting. And adult sleeping with kids? Yep. Totally happening in this manga. Seriously dude. Are we reading the same manga here or are you projecting too hard?
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@Blanche
>lool youre seriously calling the *daughter* a thot?
That was insult retard. Like how I'm calling you a retard doesn't mean you're a real retard. But idk maybe you are. Not judging.
>Why is it ok for Koto to be a teenager and act on her feelings but not for his daughter? Why is Koto's behavior valid but not the daughter?
Idk. Maybe because the daughter acted like a bratty bitch by making the whole world revolve around her? Leaving her father alone to grief his wife death, blaming him eventhough he tried his best to help them by overworking himself, locking herself up for 2 years and ignoring her father along the way further isolating him and running away from home further stressing him. See how much of her "own actions" are causing trouble to him? Now tell me what Koto did that caused trouble for others please.
>He's using his balls to ditch out on work stuff to see Koto, but didnt put that effort in for his own wife?
Different situations genius. Plus does we really know what happened when his wife is sick? All we get are flashbacks from that bratty daughter and how sure are you that's the whole truth?
>once again choosing others over his family. Don't act like he and koto are the vicims.
That why he tried his hardest to get his daughter out of her room? Or why he overworked himself right? He totally did that for Koto and himself? Lol. Seriously dude. He and Koto is the victim. He is overworked to death in an unfulfilling job for a daughter that continually blame him for something out of his power, causing him further stress along the way. Koto is a literal victim of child mental abuse. Are we not supposed to pity them? Are we supposed to support the daughter and Koto mom action?
>lool youre seriously calling the *daughter* a thot?
That was insult retard. Like how I'm calling you a retard doesn't mean you're a real retard. But idk maybe you are. Not judging.
>Why is it ok for Koto to be a teenager and act on her feelings but not for his daughter? Why is Koto's behavior valid but not the daughter?
Idk. Maybe because the daughter acted like a bratty bitch by making the whole world revolve around her? Leaving her father alone to grief his wife death, blaming him eventhough he tried his best to help them by overworking himself, locking herself up for 2 years and ignoring her father along the way further isolating him and running away from home further stressing him. See how much of her "own actions" are causing trouble to him? Now tell me what Koto did that caused trouble for others please.
>He's using his balls to ditch out on work stuff to see Koto, but didnt put that effort in for his own wife?
Different situations genius. Plus does we really know what happened when his wife is sick? All we get are flashbacks from that bratty daughter and how sure are you that's the whole truth?
>once again choosing others over his family. Don't act like he and koto are the vicims.
That why he tried his hardest to get his daughter out of her room? Or why he overworked himself right? He totally did that for Koto and himself? Lol. Seriously dude. He and Koto is the victim. He is overworked to death in an unfulfilling job for a daughter that continually blame him for something out of his power, causing him further stress along the way. Koto is a literal victim of child mental abuse. Are we not supposed to pity them? Are we supposed to support the daughter and Koto mom action?
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@Sonaldo ah yes, I'm the one projecting and this manga totally isn't filled with comments from people wanting the dude to "ditch his evil daughter and be with koto"
also lol at you being one of those people who are actually treating the daughter like some sort of villain or something, and the dad and koto are just "innocent victims" xD
also lol at you being one of those people who are actually treating the daughter like some sort of villain or something, and the dad and koto are just "innocent victims" xD
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@voidox
>He and Koto is the victim. He is overworked to death in an unfulfilling job for a daughter that continually blame him for something out of his power, causing him further stress along the way. Koto is a literal victim of child mental abuse. Are we not supposed to pity them? Are we supposed to support the daughter and Koto mom action?
From my other comment. And maybe try to know what projection is please. Sorry dude.
>He and Koto is the victim. He is overworked to death in an unfulfilling job for a daughter that continually blame him for something out of his power, causing him further stress along the way. Koto is a literal victim of child mental abuse. Are we not supposed to pity them? Are we supposed to support the daughter and Koto mom action?
From my other comment. And maybe try to know what projection is please. Sorry dude.
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@Sonaldo once again, lol at you putting all the blame on the daughter and acting like she's a villain ignoring the context of her story, losing her mother, finding out her dad was going out with underage kid, having to move and her being a kid. For sure she's being stupid for running away and is acting bratty, but that hardly enough for all the hate you people have on her -_-
and maybe you should try to know what innocent victims is please, then you might understand why the dad and Koto are not that. Not saying one can't empathise with their situations, especially Koto, but at least the dad is hardly innocent and "out of his power"
also I never said anything about the mom, don't put words into my mouth there. Also you don't have to look far to know what projection is, hint: a mirror would help
and maybe you should try to know what innocent victims is please, then you might understand why the dad and Koto are not that. Not saying one can't empathise with their situations, especially Koto, but at least the dad is hardly innocent and "out of his power"
also I never said anything about the mom, don't put words into my mouth there. Also you don't have to look far to know what projection is, hint: a mirror would help
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@voidox
>losing her mother
The father lost his wife
>finding out her dad was going out with underage kid
Because she was holing herself up in her room and offered nothing to him. Not to forget the under age kid helped he get out of the room.
>having to move
Because he wanted to stop seeing Koto. This is the most unreasonable thing the daughter did. The only reason she doesn't want to move is because of the boy she literally just met.
>her being a kid. For sure she's being stupid for running away and is acting bratty, but that hardly enough for all the hate you people have on her
There's a limit to stupidity dude. If all that is not enough to hate her then what is? Should we love her for what she did? In fact it's more than enough. I mean if she doesn't approve her father relationship I could still understand but the moment she refused to move and ran away, that was more than enough reason to hate her.
>at least the dad is hardly innocent and "out of his power"
Yeah. He totally could just leave everything (including his daughter) behind and move to the countryside or anything but he stayed. He literally did nothing wrong to deserve all this. What do you suggest him do?
>Also you don't have to look far to know what projection is, hint: a mirror would help
That's why you used a wrong example right? 😕
Hint: try reading this or at least research it for a bit before assuming.😉
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
>losing her mother
The father lost his wife
>finding out her dad was going out with underage kid
Because she was holing herself up in her room and offered nothing to him. Not to forget the under age kid helped he get out of the room.
>having to move
Because he wanted to stop seeing Koto. This is the most unreasonable thing the daughter did. The only reason she doesn't want to move is because of the boy she literally just met.
>her being a kid. For sure she's being stupid for running away and is acting bratty, but that hardly enough for all the hate you people have on her
There's a limit to stupidity dude. If all that is not enough to hate her then what is? Should we love her for what she did? In fact it's more than enough. I mean if she doesn't approve her father relationship I could still understand but the moment she refused to move and ran away, that was more than enough reason to hate her.
>at least the dad is hardly innocent and "out of his power"
Yeah. He totally could just leave everything (including his daughter) behind and move to the countryside or anything but he stayed. He literally did nothing wrong to deserve all this. What do you suggest him do?
>Also you don't have to look far to know what projection is, hint: a mirror would help
That's why you used a wrong example right? 😕
Hint: try reading this or at least research it for a bit before assuming.😉
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
Fed-Kun's army
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- 645
@Sonaldo
while tragic and terrible, he's the adult and you expect something from him. When a child loses their PARENT, it's a completely different story especially when said child is underage KID.
man, you really hate the daughter for some reason
that... has nothing to do with anything... wat? the father went out on dates with an UNDERAGE kid, took her to a hotel, she stripped COMPLETELY nude and sat on top of him, kissed his neck and was coming on hard.
sure he eventually stopped her, but he still let that all happen. Then he had pictures of her, flirting, messaging... again, all with an UNDERAGE kid, who might even be young as 14-15... jfc dude, are we reading the same manga here?
you think if this happened in real world, the dude would be treated as an "innocent victim" who did nothing wrong? that he wouldn't be in legal trouble? people wouldn't think badly of him?
if you actually do, think, then I really don't know what else to say -_-
you don't see how that looks for the daughter? she finds out her dad was dating an underage kid, again she doesn't know what happened, and then suddenly he's asking about moving = she was right to call him out for running away from the consequences and what people would say/think about him.
and sure, the boy was involved but you seem to be thinking moving is a simple thing for a kid. Maybe look up how kids can get badly affected from having to move from the place they grew up, friends, memories of the place and so on.
it's not a simple thing for a kid to just suddenly move from the city they grew up in.
again, sure it was really stupid to run away and bratty move to react like that, but again, SHE'S A KID. At least try and see things from her context before you treat her as the devil -_-
no one is saying that, again, you can be pissed off at her actions and whatnot but you people treat her like the devil and the only one in the wrong.
wow dude, you must then hate a lot of people in real life. Calm the hell down mate. Try and look into what empathy is.
jesus, "more than enough to hate her" while you just hand-wave away everything the dad did and treat him as the victim -_-
1) what the readers see is different to what the characters in the story see/know
2) no he did not "do nothing", again, are we reading the same manga here?
yup, read the link you posted, it'll help you.
while tragic and terrible, he's the adult and you expect something from him. When a child loses their PARENT, it's a completely different story especially when said child is underage KID.
man, you really hate the daughter for some reason
that... has nothing to do with anything... wat? the father went out on dates with an UNDERAGE kid, took her to a hotel, she stripped COMPLETELY nude and sat on top of him, kissed his neck and was coming on hard.
sure he eventually stopped her, but he still let that all happen. Then he had pictures of her, flirting, messaging... again, all with an UNDERAGE kid, who might even be young as 14-15... jfc dude, are we reading the same manga here?
you think if this happened in real world, the dude would be treated as an "innocent victim" who did nothing wrong? that he wouldn't be in legal trouble? people wouldn't think badly of him?
if you actually do, think, then I really don't know what else to say -_-
you don't see how that looks for the daughter? she finds out her dad was dating an underage kid, again she doesn't know what happened, and then suddenly he's asking about moving = she was right to call him out for running away from the consequences and what people would say/think about him.
and sure, the boy was involved but you seem to be thinking moving is a simple thing for a kid. Maybe look up how kids can get badly affected from having to move from the place they grew up, friends, memories of the place and so on.
it's not a simple thing for a kid to just suddenly move from the city they grew up in.
again, sure it was really stupid to run away and bratty move to react like that, but again, SHE'S A KID. At least try and see things from her context before you treat her as the devil -_-
no one is saying that, again, you can be pissed off at her actions and whatnot but you people treat her like the devil and the only one in the wrong.
wow dude, you must then hate a lot of people in real life. Calm the hell down mate. Try and look into what empathy is.
jesus, "more than enough to hate her" while you just hand-wave away everything the dad did and treat him as the victim -_-
1) what the readers see is different to what the characters in the story see/know
2) no he did not "do nothing", again, are we reading the same manga here?
yup, read the link you posted, it'll help you.
Dex-chan lover
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@voidox
>he's the adult and you expect something from him. When a child loses their PARENT, it's a completely different story especially when said child is underage KID.
Like working his ass off to keep supporting his family financially? Offer mental help to his only daughter? Like what did you expect him to do that he didnt do before he met Koto? And why is his daughter free from all responsibility? Is being a teen (she's not a kid dude) means you are absolved from all responsibility? Nice viewpoint you have there.
>that... has nothing to do with anything... wat? the father went out on dates with an UNDERAGE kid, took her to a hotel, she stripped COMPLETELY nude and sat on top of him, kissed his neck and was coming on hard.
sure he eventually stopped her, but he still let that all happen. Then he had pictures of her, flirting, messaging... again, all with an UNDERAGE kid, who might even be young as 14-15... jfc dude, are we reading the same manga here?
Lets conveniently forget that he's under immense stress okay? And how is the daughter holing up in her room, neglecting her studies affecting her dad? How does that has nothing to do with everything happening in the manga? Are you seriously asking that? Should the father not be stressed out about that? Are you all right in the head? And how the fuck is Koto that young when she's in fucking highschool dude? Jfc, are we reading the same manga here?😲
>you don't see how that looks for the daughter? she finds out her dad was dating an underage kid, again she doesn't know what happened, and then suddenly he's asking about moving = she was right to call him out for running away from the consequences and what people would say/think about him.
Lets also conveniently forget that the daughter literally cut all contacts with her dad okay? How dafuq is he gonna tell her? And let's also forget that the dad was wishy washy about Koto at that point. You talked as if the dad had a full blown relationship with Koto. What the hell dude? You literally chose to overlook everything the daughter did under the pretense that's she's a KID. Seriously dude? What the fuck do you want the dad to do at that point? Keep stressing himself out by still working that job and not seeing Koto (literally the only person keeping him sane), keeping all the stress inside him?
>and sure, the boy was involved but you seem to be thinking moving is a simple thing for a kid. Maybe look up how kids can get badly affected from having to move from the place they grew up, friends, memories of the place and so on.
it's not a simple thing for a kid to just suddenly move from the city they grew up in.
again, sure it was really stupid to run away and bratty move to react like that, but again, SHE'S A KID. At least try and see things from her context before you treat her as the devil -_-
If you think a high school student is a kid then I really have nothing to argue man. All I see is a fucking brat. That's it. You're acting like moving away is a death sentence. That's how much you're going to defend her? And surely the dad isn't affected at all by the move right? I mean leaving the house he bought to stay with his family, leaving the job he worked for all his life for a less paying one, piling up more work for him, having to face his parents that constantly berates him. Yes. It totally effects her more than it effect him.🙄
>jesus, "more than enough to hate her" while you just hand-wave away everything the dad did and treat him as the victim -_-
The hell? Look back what you write about the daughter. If I'm handwaving what the father did you just straightaway acted like the daughter is a fucking saint just because she's a KID when she's in high school for fuck sake. And tell me how justified is the daughter to hole up in her room for a few years while her father worked his ass off to support her while still facing the grief of losing his wife without resorting to the KID argument and I'll stop.
>yup, read the link you posted, it'll help you.
Help me with explaining it to you? Okay then.
"Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others."
Now let me quote what your comment said.
"Once they self-insert into a character, there is no wrong and they go full defensive: adults sleeping with kids is totally cool as long as they can self-insert either into an underage boy x adult woman or adult man x underage girl -_-"
You literally exhibited projection behaviours by explaining self inserters like you're used to it and attributing them to everyone blaming the daughter. It's fine to self insert dude. Just make sure you self insert yourself into a good character okay?😉
>he's the adult and you expect something from him. When a child loses their PARENT, it's a completely different story especially when said child is underage KID.
Like working his ass off to keep supporting his family financially? Offer mental help to his only daughter? Like what did you expect him to do that he didnt do before he met Koto? And why is his daughter free from all responsibility? Is being a teen (she's not a kid dude) means you are absolved from all responsibility? Nice viewpoint you have there.
>that... has nothing to do with anything... wat? the father went out on dates with an UNDERAGE kid, took her to a hotel, she stripped COMPLETELY nude and sat on top of him, kissed his neck and was coming on hard.
sure he eventually stopped her, but he still let that all happen. Then he had pictures of her, flirting, messaging... again, all with an UNDERAGE kid, who might even be young as 14-15... jfc dude, are we reading the same manga here?
Lets conveniently forget that he's under immense stress okay? And how is the daughter holing up in her room, neglecting her studies affecting her dad? How does that has nothing to do with everything happening in the manga? Are you seriously asking that? Should the father not be stressed out about that? Are you all right in the head? And how the fuck is Koto that young when she's in fucking highschool dude? Jfc, are we reading the same manga here?😲
>you don't see how that looks for the daughter? she finds out her dad was dating an underage kid, again she doesn't know what happened, and then suddenly he's asking about moving = she was right to call him out for running away from the consequences and what people would say/think about him.
Lets also conveniently forget that the daughter literally cut all contacts with her dad okay? How dafuq is he gonna tell her? And let's also forget that the dad was wishy washy about Koto at that point. You talked as if the dad had a full blown relationship with Koto. What the hell dude? You literally chose to overlook everything the daughter did under the pretense that's she's a KID. Seriously dude? What the fuck do you want the dad to do at that point? Keep stressing himself out by still working that job and not seeing Koto (literally the only person keeping him sane), keeping all the stress inside him?
>and sure, the boy was involved but you seem to be thinking moving is a simple thing for a kid. Maybe look up how kids can get badly affected from having to move from the place they grew up, friends, memories of the place and so on.
it's not a simple thing for a kid to just suddenly move from the city they grew up in.
again, sure it was really stupid to run away and bratty move to react like that, but again, SHE'S A KID. At least try and see things from her context before you treat her as the devil -_-
If you think a high school student is a kid then I really have nothing to argue man. All I see is a fucking brat. That's it. You're acting like moving away is a death sentence. That's how much you're going to defend her? And surely the dad isn't affected at all by the move right? I mean leaving the house he bought to stay with his family, leaving the job he worked for all his life for a less paying one, piling up more work for him, having to face his parents that constantly berates him. Yes. It totally effects her more than it effect him.🙄
>jesus, "more than enough to hate her" while you just hand-wave away everything the dad did and treat him as the victim -_-
The hell? Look back what you write about the daughter. If I'm handwaving what the father did you just straightaway acted like the daughter is a fucking saint just because she's a KID when she's in high school for fuck sake. And tell me how justified is the daughter to hole up in her room for a few years while her father worked his ass off to support her while still facing the grief of losing his wife without resorting to the KID argument and I'll stop.
>yup, read the link you posted, it'll help you.
Help me with explaining it to you? Okay then.
"Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others."
Now let me quote what your comment said.
"Once they self-insert into a character, there is no wrong and they go full defensive: adults sleeping with kids is totally cool as long as they can self-insert either into an underage boy x adult woman or adult man x underage girl -_-"
You literally exhibited projection behaviours by explaining self inserters like you're used to it and attributing them to everyone blaming the daughter. It's fine to self insert dude. Just make sure you self insert yourself into a good character okay?😉
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2019
- Messages
- 645
@Sonaldo
oh man, psychology professor here xD you've figured me out from just one comment I made, damn man you should make a career out of reading people
so let me get this straight: you think me calling out self-inserters for defending adults dating underage children, is a defense mechanism cause I'm a self-inserter? And you got all this cause "like you're used to it" <--- that's your reasoning, LOL
wew lad, nice jump in logic there. I literally was calling out self-inserters for being disgusting and defending stories that involve adult dating underage kids, kinda like what you are doing with the dad and koto
and where the hell did the daughter and blame come into my original post? wat??
so I'm self-inserting into the daughter is it? xD
I love how you say I'm the one self-inserting when you are the one ready to die on a hill to ensure the daughter is seen as villain and the dad is a "poor innocent soul" who is blameless cause of stress
not once have I said the daughter is blameless, I literally call her out for being a brat and running away as stupid.
yet you want to make her a literal villain and devil, you continue to ignore the context of her situation... hell you keep saying the dude is under stress, which he is for sure, but don't you think the daughter is under stress and pain as well? you think it's easy to lose your mother? to find out your dad, who she was reconnecting with btw, was going out with an underage girl? to learn that she might have to move away all of a sudden despite getting her life somewhat back on track?
again, look up the word empathy and try and apply it here.
ah yes, stress... stress makes it completely okay to go out with an underage girl. Stress makes it's perfectly okay to have a naked high-school girl on top of you , kissing your neck, in a hotel. Stress makes it okay to send messages, have pictures, so on with a high-school girl... alright dude
oh I dunno mate, maybe the dad can seek professional help to manage the stress he's under, you know, something the adults should do in these situations. I don't think "going out with underage girls" is a prescribed treatment for stress in adults, but hey, that's just me~
KID
1.
informal
a child or young person.
guess you really don't have anything to argue since you don't even know what simple words mean~
never said that, I said to look at how suddenly moving away from the place you grew up in can be hard for a kid: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/thinking-about-kids/201007/moving-is-tough-kids
there is so much more on this topic but you can look it up yourself while you look up the definition of kid and empathy, and understand what projection is
so you keep parroting this point in your post, so I'll just address this once again since you can't seem to read English: not once have I said the daughter is a saint or blameless. I literally call her out for being a brat and being stupid for running away.
next time, try reading what someone is writing before replying
cause the daughter just lost her mother and her relationship with her father broke down, are you not reading the chapters or does shit need to be spelled out for you? what exactly needs to be justified here? you literally say the father "dealing with grief of his wife's passing" which is true, but you write as if the daughter has no grief, pain or stress over her mother's death... wat?
her reaction to her mother's death was to shut herself in, which is something that happens to many kids who lose their parent(s). They can sometimes shut themselves in, from fear of losing other loved ones to no longer feeling for things outside their safe space.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/media-spotlight/201802/when-child-loses-parent
again, a lot more research into the psychology of kid's trauma and dealing with death, you can look into that yourself along with all the other topics you fail to understand
The breakdown of their relationship goes BOTH ways btw mate. Even if he is dealing with his wife's death, he still is the parent and adult and that comes with responsibility. While the daughter shut herself in, the dad also let that happen.
Yes he kept up at work but that's his job and something even he himself needs to survive. And he does actually try to re-connect with his daughter, as a parent should, and the daughter did in fact try to re-connect with him. Both of them needed time to heal and come back together.
I never said that. Once again you're trying to put words into my mouth. Stop with the strawman tactics. Your posts are filled with them -_-
resorting to kid argument? mate, you do understand the father is an adult and the daughter is a 15 year old kid right? you do understand how they are different and how being an adult vs being a kid means different things right?
you keep getting triggered over me saying the daughter is a kid, which she is in case you're denying that. Are you incapable of understanding that, or at least emphasizing with her?
What's hilarious in all this, is you're acting just like a kid here and now you're swearing xD
oh man, psychology professor here xD you've figured me out from just one comment I made, damn man you should make a career out of reading people
so let me get this straight: you think me calling out self-inserters for defending adults dating underage children, is a defense mechanism cause I'm a self-inserter? And you got all this cause "like you're used to it" <--- that's your reasoning, LOL
wew lad, nice jump in logic there. I literally was calling out self-inserters for being disgusting and defending stories that involve adult dating underage kids, kinda like what you are doing with the dad and koto
and where the hell did the daughter and blame come into my original post? wat??
so I'm self-inserting into the daughter is it? xD
I love how you say I'm the one self-inserting when you are the one ready to die on a hill to ensure the daughter is seen as villain and the dad is a "poor innocent soul" who is blameless cause of stress
not once have I said the daughter is blameless, I literally call her out for being a brat and running away as stupid.
yet you want to make her a literal villain and devil, you continue to ignore the context of her situation... hell you keep saying the dude is under stress, which he is for sure, but don't you think the daughter is under stress and pain as well? you think it's easy to lose your mother? to find out your dad, who she was reconnecting with btw, was going out with an underage girl? to learn that she might have to move away all of a sudden despite getting her life somewhat back on track?
again, look up the word empathy and try and apply it here.
ah yes, stress... stress makes it completely okay to go out with an underage girl. Stress makes it's perfectly okay to have a naked high-school girl on top of you , kissing your neck, in a hotel. Stress makes it okay to send messages, have pictures, so on with a high-school girl... alright dude
oh I dunno mate, maybe the dad can seek professional help to manage the stress he's under, you know, something the adults should do in these situations. I don't think "going out with underage girls" is a prescribed treatment for stress in adults, but hey, that's just me~
KID
1.
informal
a child or young person.
guess you really don't have anything to argue since you don't even know what simple words mean~
never said that, I said to look at how suddenly moving away from the place you grew up in can be hard for a kid: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/thinking-about-kids/201007/moving-is-tough-kids
there is so much more on this topic but you can look it up yourself while you look up the definition of kid and empathy, and understand what projection is
so you keep parroting this point in your post, so I'll just address this once again since you can't seem to read English: not once have I said the daughter is a saint or blameless. I literally call her out for being a brat and being stupid for running away.
next time, try reading what someone is writing before replying
cause the daughter just lost her mother and her relationship with her father broke down, are you not reading the chapters or does shit need to be spelled out for you? what exactly needs to be justified here? you literally say the father "dealing with grief of his wife's passing" which is true, but you write as if the daughter has no grief, pain or stress over her mother's death... wat?
her reaction to her mother's death was to shut herself in, which is something that happens to many kids who lose their parent(s). They can sometimes shut themselves in, from fear of losing other loved ones to no longer feeling for things outside their safe space.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/media-spotlight/201802/when-child-loses-parent
again, a lot more research into the psychology of kid's trauma and dealing with death, you can look into that yourself along with all the other topics you fail to understand
The breakdown of their relationship goes BOTH ways btw mate. Even if he is dealing with his wife's death, he still is the parent and adult and that comes with responsibility. While the daughter shut herself in, the dad also let that happen.
Yes he kept up at work but that's his job and something even he himself needs to survive. And he does actually try to re-connect with his daughter, as a parent should, and the daughter did in fact try to re-connect with him. Both of them needed time to heal and come back together.
I never said that. Once again you're trying to put words into my mouth. Stop with the strawman tactics. Your posts are filled with them -_-
resorting to kid argument? mate, you do understand the father is an adult and the daughter is a 15 year old kid right? you do understand how they are different and how being an adult vs being a kid means different things right?
you keep getting triggered over me saying the daughter is a kid, which she is in case you're denying that. Are you incapable of understanding that, or at least emphasizing with her?
What's hilarious in all this, is you're acting just like a kid here and now you're swearing xD
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
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- Messages
- 3,534
@voidox
I'm sorry mate. You keep insisting she's a kid and that seems to be the basis of your arguments so I really dont know what to say. You said you called her out for being bratty but still ask me to understand her situation but when I ask you to do the same with the dad, you still acted like he's this paedophile that acted on his impulse and insisted that he slept with Koto when it never happened. Seriously dude? He never once forced himself on koto but everything is his fault? No "understand his situation" here? And let's just forget that one point he literally cut all contacts with Koto.
>While the daughter shut herself in, the dad also let that happen.
Oh wow. That's his fault as well? Damn. Next you're gonna blame him for global warming or something😂. Ngl, I totally laughed here. Good joke mate.
Mate, dont start with definition of kid here. First thing first, she 16. That's the minimum age to enter highschool in japan and Koto is 16 as well. Is she a kid?
Literally google image kid and say to me with a straight face that a 16 year old is still just a kid. Come on dude. It's not like she's mentally retarded or something. At 16 you are expected to be at least mature enough to make rational decision. If not, you're gonna get judged for it. I mean look at the boy. He literally smoked in school area and look at Koto who had a part time job. If we're playing semantics here, the word young adult, teen or adolescent are the correct word for them.
Just because your parents treated you like a kid at 16 doesn't mean you are a kid. I'm not gonna reply to anymore comment because you're still gonna insist she's a kid. Just Google image search a kid and ask yourself if any of them are over 12 years old. Idk what's wrong with you but 14 years old and above are not kid and that's a fact, not opinion. Sorry for taking your time man. Have a nice day.
I'm sorry mate. You keep insisting she's a kid and that seems to be the basis of your arguments so I really dont know what to say. You said you called her out for being bratty but still ask me to understand her situation but when I ask you to do the same with the dad, you still acted like he's this paedophile that acted on his impulse and insisted that he slept with Koto when it never happened. Seriously dude? He never once forced himself on koto but everything is his fault? No "understand his situation" here? And let's just forget that one point he literally cut all contacts with Koto.
>While the daughter shut herself in, the dad also let that happen.
Oh wow. That's his fault as well? Damn. Next you're gonna blame him for global warming or something😂. Ngl, I totally laughed here. Good joke mate.
Mate, dont start with definition of kid here. First thing first, she 16. That's the minimum age to enter highschool in japan and Koto is 16 as well. Is she a kid?
Literally google image kid and say to me with a straight face that a 16 year old is still just a kid. Come on dude. It's not like she's mentally retarded or something. At 16 you are expected to be at least mature enough to make rational decision. If not, you're gonna get judged for it. I mean look at the boy. He literally smoked in school area and look at Koto who had a part time job. If we're playing semantics here, the word young adult, teen or adolescent are the correct word for them.
Just because your parents treated you like a kid at 16 doesn't mean you are a kid. I'm not gonna reply to anymore comment because you're still gonna insist she's a kid. Just Google image search a kid and ask yourself if any of them are over 12 years old. Idk what's wrong with you but 14 years old and above are not kid and that's a fact, not opinion. Sorry for taking your time man. Have a nice day.
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