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nThat bitch mom smiling because she knows where he works AND where he lives. She's coming in to ruin his life even more next chapter lmao
Musume no Tomodachi - Vol. 5 Ch. 36 - Each Person's Epiphany
- Thread starter MangaDex
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Honestly he brought this on himself
He should have known better from the start
I get that he has it tough and wants to find some happiness but you don't look for it in a 16yo girl
As I said before, if I had a 16yo daughter and a middle aged man was trying to hook up with her, I definitely wouldn't be cool with it (and that's puting it mildly)
And I bet you all wouldn't be too, despite your "leave the dad alone!" comments
He should have known better from the start
I get that he has it tough and wants to find some happiness but you don't look for it in a 16yo girl
As I said before, if I had a 16yo daughter and a middle aged man was trying to hook up with her, I definitely wouldn't be cool with it (and that's puting it mildly)
And I bet you all wouldn't be too, despite your "leave the dad alone!" comments
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So it took me until chapter 27 to put a better idea together, but it's forming now more than ever. Delinquent was actually smart, free-spirited thinker, building the bridge to empathy and helping the daughter become more self-aware. I wonder if we'll get his backstory of a similar scenario (i.e. broken family) and how he got over it. Would be awfully convenient and even make sense.
Can't wait 'til the mysteriously absent kouhai saves the dad's ass at work for whatever the mom's going to do.
inb4 she tries to hook her daughter up with him . So long as he's better than her 'worthless husband'. By this point I would not be surprised by any bizarro subversion of her going full psycho on the dad, though even if she does so, he'll be spared somehow.
You know I hope there's a big confrontation between Koto's Mom and the father, kinda similar to the one with the daughter. Would be hilarious if the two side parties (kouhai and delinquent) are there again.
Can't wait 'til the mysteriously absent kouhai saves the dad's ass at work for whatever the mom's going to do.
inb4 she tries to hook her daughter up with him . So long as he's better than her 'worthless husband'. By this point I would not be surprised by any bizarro subversion of her going full psycho on the dad, though even if she does so, he'll be spared somehow.
You know I hope there's a big confrontation between Koto's Mom and the father, kinda similar to the one with the daughter. Would be hilarious if the two side parties (kouhai and delinquent) are there again.
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@jazz9 While I agree about the "if you all had a daughter" part, I also understand that immense amounts of stress can do a lot more damage than most people are willing to even think about, both physically and mentally. If anyone expects anyone else to just be able to think rationally when they're far too stressed, especially when some kind of light of salvation comes into that darkness, then that's just apathy and doesn't help anything. The problem with what you're saying is that you say he "look[ed] for it in a 16yo girl" but the fact of the matter is, he didn't look for it at all, it just appeared in front of him, and to use a metaphor, if you're about to fall off a cliff, whether the thing in front of you is a rope or a snake doesn't really register, you're going to grab for it anyway. He's the same type of person cult leaders hunt for, they're easy to manipulate and can say "all the right things." While his relationship with the girl is problematic for the both of them, the actual answer is that they both need to see a therapist, as does the psycho mother. Of course that wont happen since it's a manga and that's not entertaining, but still.
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@henman
To be honest, I haven't thought about it deep enough to give a nuanced answer. The character interactions are quite complex after all. The mother definitely has some abandonment issues and is smothering Koto, and in turn, her personality. Despite Koto's apparent maturity, she is very much still a child in terms of forming a coherent identity. That's why I'm not sure if she genuinely likes the dad or is trying to use him as a vehicle to escape her mom's oppression and figure out what kind of person she wants to be.
To be honest, I haven't thought about it deep enough to give a nuanced answer. The character interactions are quite complex after all. The mother definitely has some abandonment issues and is smothering Koto, and in turn, her personality. Despite Koto's apparent maturity, she is very much still a child in terms of forming a coherent identity. That's why I'm not sure if she genuinely likes the dad or is trying to use him as a vehicle to escape her mom's oppression and figure out what kind of person she wants to be.
The mom is psycho af, but her actions regarding Kousuke aren't that odd considering he's a grown ass man trying to groom her daughter.
At first I thought he was just gonna go the mentor route like in After The Rain, but it's clear that he's thinking about dating her.
At first I thought he was just gonna go the mentor route like in After The Rain, but it's clear that he's thinking about dating her.
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Well, those are pretty bad eyes. Better hope he has a nice severance pay package.
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@flaine
@Blanche
Lol at grooming and CHILD part. She's 16 years old dudes, not 6. Plus he said he wants to date her when she's an adult. I mean at 16-20 years old you can already be considered a young adult. Also considering the fact that Koto behaviour can be considered mature, I really see no issue here, biologically or psychologically. The fact that he's willing to wait till she's an adult even make it better legally. So what's the problem here?
@Blanche
Lol at grooming and CHILD part. She's 16 years old dudes, not 6. Plus he said he wants to date her when she's an adult. I mean at 16-20 years old you can already be considered a young adult. Also considering the fact that Koto behaviour can be considered mature, I really see no issue here, biologically or psychologically. The fact that he's willing to wait till she's an adult even make it better legally. So what's the problem here?
@Sonaldo The fact that you think Koto's behavior is mature or normal and that her dynamic with Kousuke isn't sus baffles me. She's depicting textbook "girl with family/daddy issues" behavior, it's not mature, it's a childish imitation of maturity at best and is an obvious sign of her coping with a deep psychological issue.
And any grown man that takes advantage of a young girl dealing with those kinds of problems by building a relationship with the intention of getting sex down the line is grooming. This story would probably be the most blatant example of that if it goes down that road.
And to compare a 16 year old child to a 6 year old one as if the 6y/o being less developed than a 16y/o justifies viewing the other as "adult" is disingenuous as fuck. A person who's 16 is obviously gonna be much more mature than a 6 year old, but that does not make them an adult by any means. They're still in their teens and there's still a ton of emotional growth for them to do along with responsibilities they haven't had to worry about by then.
And that's without even mentioning the MC, who's pining after a girl the same age as his daughter, and should be wise enough to recognize the full scope of the problem.
And any grown man that takes advantage of a young girl dealing with those kinds of problems by building a relationship with the intention of getting sex down the line is grooming. This story would probably be the most blatant example of that if it goes down that road.
And to compare a 16 year old child to a 6 year old one as if the 6y/o being less developed than a 16y/o justifies viewing the other as "adult" is disingenuous as fuck. A person who's 16 is obviously gonna be much more mature than a 6 year old, but that does not make them an adult by any means. They're still in their teens and there's still a ton of emotional growth for them to do along with responsibilities they haven't had to worry about by then.
And that's without even mentioning the MC, who's pining after a girl the same age as his daughter, and should be wise enough to recognize the full scope of the problem.
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@flaine
With the intention of getting sex? What the hell? Do you think everyone just wants sex from their significant other? "There's a hole in her heart that I want to fill"? Plus did you forget he literally turned down her offer for sex?
I never said she's an adult though. I said young adult. Contrary to what society thinks, 16 years old should be considered mature enough. You really dont have an argument for grooming because at 16, she already knew about relationships and sex. I mean of course it's different for everyone but Koto is depicted as a mature young adult and what even is a "childish imitation of maturity"? Regarding the age comparison, I used it to show what grooming is. You can groom a 6 year old but 16? That's stretching. And regarding the emotional maturity, some people can be 40 years old and still be immature emotionally so I dont really see your point here dude.
And your last sentence. They're 2 consenting adults and why is the age gap an issue here? Like I said in the previous comment, physically, mentally and legally there is no problem for Kousuke to date Koto and to deny them that is interfering with their rights. You're just as immature as his daughter and if you fail to recognize that.
With the intention of getting sex? What the hell? Do you think everyone just wants sex from their significant other? "There's a hole in her heart that I want to fill"? Plus did you forget he literally turned down her offer for sex?
I never said she's an adult though. I said young adult. Contrary to what society thinks, 16 years old should be considered mature enough. You really dont have an argument for grooming because at 16, she already knew about relationships and sex. I mean of course it's different for everyone but Koto is depicted as a mature young adult and what even is a "childish imitation of maturity"? Regarding the age comparison, I used it to show what grooming is. You can groom a 6 year old but 16? That's stretching. And regarding the emotional maturity, some people can be 40 years old and still be immature emotionally so I dont really see your point here dude.
And your last sentence. They're 2 consenting adults and why is the age gap an issue here? Like I said in the previous comment, physically, mentally and legally there is no problem for Kousuke to date Koto and to deny them that is interfering with their rights. You're just as immature as his daughter and if you fail to recognize that.
@Solaldo
>With the intention of getting sex? What the hell? Do you think everyone just wants sex from their significant other?
If sex wasn't a factor then he would easily just be satisfied with just a platonic relationship with her, but that's obviously not the case here since he's making the choice to wait till she's older to engage her that way. That's not to mention the many moments of sexual tension between them in earlier chapters that you seem to have forgotten or be completely ignoring.
>16 years old should be considered mature enough. You really don't have an argument for grooming because at 16, she already knew about relationships and sex
Knowing about things =/= to being able to engage in them responsibly. At 16 the vast majority of people will not have the emotional experience or intelligence to be able to navigate interpersonal relationships effectively. This is even more common for those raised in abusive households like Koto.
>Koto is depicted as a mature young adult
She's immature and broken as fuck, all her actions come from a place of lacking sufficient care at home. The way she interacts with her mother, ignores her problems, and clings to Kousuke screams stunted development. I have no idea how you interpret this as "mature young adult" when the mangaka has made it explicit that she has issues.
>You can groom a 6 year old but 16? That's stretching
No it's really not. You'd have to be an actual 16y/o to think that. Grooming can happen at any age before adulthood and often it's during adolescence.
Not only could I dish out tons of anecdotal evidence for that but just looking at various human trafficking data supports this as well.
>And regarding the emotional maturity, some people can be 40 years old and still be immature emotionally so I don't really see your point here dude.
Of course, but those are exceptions and not the norm. Adults are ideally expected to be more emotionally competent. Trying to use outliers as a the bar for judging what an adult's maturity level should be is being disingenuous.
>And your last sentence. They're 2 consenting adults and why is the age gap an issue here?
So now you're calling Koto an adult? How do you slip this far down the slope in a single post? She's not, and the age gap is an issue not just because of the reasons I listed, but also because the specific problems that Koto is suffering from come from the lack of a competent adult figure in her life. Kousuke starting a romantic relationship with her takes advantage of that insecurity for his own benefit.
>Like I said in the previous comment, physically, mentally and legally there is no problem for Kousuke to date Koto
A widower dealing with a rebellious daughter going through his middle-age crisis, and an immature adolescent girl brought up in an abusive household seeking an emotional support. Yes, surely this is a healthy pairing that would totally work out with 0 problems and won't end in tragedy.
In all seriousness if this kind of story premise took itself less seriously I probably wouldn't have a problem with the pairing, but this isn't some gag 4-koma manga or doujin. From what we've seen so far it's striving to tell a more grounded and emotionally complex story, and having the story just end with them together happily ever after would at best, completely undermine that and be incredibly self-indulgent and at worst, morally reprehensible.
>With the intention of getting sex? What the hell? Do you think everyone just wants sex from their significant other?
If sex wasn't a factor then he would easily just be satisfied with just a platonic relationship with her, but that's obviously not the case here since he's making the choice to wait till she's older to engage her that way. That's not to mention the many moments of sexual tension between them in earlier chapters that you seem to have forgotten or be completely ignoring.
>16 years old should be considered mature enough. You really don't have an argument for grooming because at 16, she already knew about relationships and sex
Knowing about things =/= to being able to engage in them responsibly. At 16 the vast majority of people will not have the emotional experience or intelligence to be able to navigate interpersonal relationships effectively. This is even more common for those raised in abusive households like Koto.
>Koto is depicted as a mature young adult
She's immature and broken as fuck, all her actions come from a place of lacking sufficient care at home. The way she interacts with her mother, ignores her problems, and clings to Kousuke screams stunted development. I have no idea how you interpret this as "mature young adult" when the mangaka has made it explicit that she has issues.
>You can groom a 6 year old but 16? That's stretching
No it's really not. You'd have to be an actual 16y/o to think that. Grooming can happen at any age before adulthood and often it's during adolescence.
Not only could I dish out tons of anecdotal evidence for that but just looking at various human trafficking data supports this as well.
>And regarding the emotional maturity, some people can be 40 years old and still be immature emotionally so I don't really see your point here dude.
Of course, but those are exceptions and not the norm. Adults are ideally expected to be more emotionally competent. Trying to use outliers as a the bar for judging what an adult's maturity level should be is being disingenuous.
>And your last sentence. They're 2 consenting adults and why is the age gap an issue here?
So now you're calling Koto an adult? How do you slip this far down the slope in a single post? She's not, and the age gap is an issue not just because of the reasons I listed, but also because the specific problems that Koto is suffering from come from the lack of a competent adult figure in her life. Kousuke starting a romantic relationship with her takes advantage of that insecurity for his own benefit.
>Like I said in the previous comment, physically, mentally and legally there is no problem for Kousuke to date Koto
A widower dealing with a rebellious daughter going through his middle-age crisis, and an immature adolescent girl brought up in an abusive household seeking an emotional support. Yes, surely this is a healthy pairing that would totally work out with 0 problems and won't end in tragedy.
In all seriousness if this kind of story premise took itself less seriously I probably wouldn't have a problem with the pairing, but this isn't some gag 4-koma manga or doujin. From what we've seen so far it's striving to tell a more grounded and emotionally complex story, and having the story just end with them together happily ever after would at best, completely undermine that and be incredibly self-indulgent and at worst, morally reprehensible.
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@Sonaldo
I would not trust the judgement of a 16 year old, they are still children and do stupid shit. A middle aged man should not be doing this with someone the same age as his child. He is in his 40's, she is not fully developed mentally. The only people who are defending this are trying to put themselves into the story and probably would want to be in this exact situation, ew.
I would not trust the judgement of a 16 year old, they are still children and do stupid shit. A middle aged man should not be doing this with someone the same age as his child. He is in his 40's, she is not fully developed mentally. The only people who are defending this are trying to put themselves into the story and probably would want to be in this exact situation, ew.
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@flaine
> "If sex wasn't a factor then he would easily just be satisfied with just a platonic relationship with her"
Please conveniently ignore my comment about the hole filling part okay? Dont think you can do that as friends but whatever floats your boat.
"That's not to mention the many moments of sexual tension between them in earlier chapters"
Which he responded by aggressively having sex with Koto right? Wait. That doesn't happen. Instead he fucking declined her offer for sex. If he wants sex only, he could've got it then. And by waiting till she's an adult is due to legal and moral reasons. Not because of sex. Stop thinking using your dick for a moment.
>"At 16 the vast majority of people will not have the emotional experience or intelligence to be able to navigate interpersonal relationships effectively"
That's why many teenager have sex and start relationship at that age right? Like come on dude. 16 is old enough to have sex in the US but too young to have a relationship? What the? I suppose you never formed close relationship in you teenage years because you're too young? Piss off.
>" I have no idea how you interpret this as "mature young adult" when the mangaka has made it explicit that she has issues."
TIL that having issues mean you're immature. That means everyone is immature since everyone have issues. Lol what? Look at how she handled her issues and compare them to how Kousuke daughter handled her's. Now tell me she's immature.
>"Grooming can happen at any age before adulthood and often it's during adolescence."
Sure it does. You can groom all 6 years old but you cant groom all 16 year olds since some of them are more mature and grown up than others. Everyone mature at different rate genius. If you tell me Koto is being groomed than I really dont know what to tell you then. You do you.
>"those are exceptions and not the norm"
Is Koto the norm now? So we should just disregard the existence of an outlier and treats them as the norm? Do you realise how stupid that sounds?
I'm too tired to answer the last 2 points but blaming Kousuke and calling him pedophile, accusing him of grooming is too far out okay?
> "If sex wasn't a factor then he would easily just be satisfied with just a platonic relationship with her"
Please conveniently ignore my comment about the hole filling part okay? Dont think you can do that as friends but whatever floats your boat.
"That's not to mention the many moments of sexual tension between them in earlier chapters"
Which he responded by aggressively having sex with Koto right? Wait. That doesn't happen. Instead he fucking declined her offer for sex. If he wants sex only, he could've got it then. And by waiting till she's an adult is due to legal and moral reasons. Not because of sex. Stop thinking using your dick for a moment.
>"At 16 the vast majority of people will not have the emotional experience or intelligence to be able to navigate interpersonal relationships effectively"
That's why many teenager have sex and start relationship at that age right? Like come on dude. 16 is old enough to have sex in the US but too young to have a relationship? What the? I suppose you never formed close relationship in you teenage years because you're too young? Piss off.
>" I have no idea how you interpret this as "mature young adult" when the mangaka has made it explicit that she has issues."
TIL that having issues mean you're immature. That means everyone is immature since everyone have issues. Lol what? Look at how she handled her issues and compare them to how Kousuke daughter handled her's. Now tell me she's immature.
>"Grooming can happen at any age before adulthood and often it's during adolescence."
Sure it does. You can groom all 6 years old but you cant groom all 16 year olds since some of them are more mature and grown up than others. Everyone mature at different rate genius. If you tell me Koto is being groomed than I really dont know what to tell you then. You do you.
>"those are exceptions and not the norm"
Is Koto the norm now? So we should just disregard the existence of an outlier and treats them as the norm? Do you realise how stupid that sounds?
I'm too tired to answer the last 2 points but blaming Kousuke and calling him pedophile, accusing him of grooming is too far out okay?
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@Blanche
"The only people who are defending this are trying to put themselves into the story and probably would want to be in this exact situation, ew."
And now you're projecting. Lol. How about I sympathize with him and Koto for all the issues their having? They dont deserve all this and blaming him instead of Koto mum or Kousuke daughter is stupid. Like come on dude. A lot of 16 years old are still children sure but Koto? Not so much. People mature at different rate genius. And her mental development totally depends on your judgement right? Of course you have a degree in child development. Sorry dr. Realistically speaking, everyone still has room to grow mentally and does that invalidate their ability to form relationship?
"The only people who are defending this are trying to put themselves into the story and probably would want to be in this exact situation, ew."
And now you're projecting. Lol. How about I sympathize with him and Koto for all the issues their having? They dont deserve all this and blaming him instead of Koto mum or Kousuke daughter is stupid. Like come on dude. A lot of 16 years old are still children sure but Koto? Not so much. People mature at different rate genius. And her mental development totally depends on your judgement right? Of course you have a degree in child development. Sorry dr. Realistically speaking, everyone still has room to grow mentally and does that invalidate their ability to form relationship?
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Oh boy another chapter of mom creeping me tf out and weird school dude who just absolutely is the worst
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