To this level, it's nearly propaganda. "Our armies are the best. But we don't seek violence, we try to spare lives." Like for Gate, the whole "humanitarian" part is shit. Did they forget what they did during WW2? Gate is a bit better, because they don't try to make the enemies surrender at all cost. Also, using missiles against horse? Really? A gatling gun is more than enough and missiles aren't cheap.
Nihonkoku Shoukan
- Thread starter MangaDex
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@Ovnidemon I don't think your interpretation of the manga is the same vibe that I get from the manga. If you substituted Japan for any other country in our world, or with a fictional country, I don't think you'd say the same thing, so I think the bias about Japan's actions in WWII might be influencing your interpretation. But the manga is missing a lot of details that the web novel has, so it may not be clear as to what's going on in the story if you only read the manga. The Japanese military is superior in this alternate world which is why you'll see so much slaughter. Any other country in our modern world would appear just as strong if they were transported to the same alternate world. The less technologically advanced native inhabitants will obviously be surprised on first sight of the destructiveness of modern weaponry, but I don't see any "boasting or bragging" of Japanese strength in either the manga or the web novel. The opposite is true (later on), where the lack of display of their military might causes misunderstandings with hostile nations into wrongly thinking that Japan was weak, which leads into conflict and creates all the nice and juicy war between countries with greatly different military power that we're all craving for, but I won't spoil further details.
There was a legitimate reason for the use of force in the early chapters so far, although the manga doesn't go into great detail. The web novel explains that Japan imports a lot of food and resources, and as the supply has been cut off from the original world, they have to establish diplomatic relations with the neighboring countries to find alternative sources. They've got 120 million people to feed and supply fossil fuels to. The first nation that they contacted, agreed to supply all of the food that Japan needed. Another one supplies all of their petroleum. But another less self-sufficient neighboring nation decided to invade those countries to take over the food and resources for themselves. They were also racists and used ethnic cleansing against demi-humans. So to protect Japanese interests (resources) they use this and other excuses to get involved with the conflict by kind of twisting the interpretation of the Japanese constitution, which prohibits the use of military force in other countries' domestic affairs, in order to allow them to do so. I don't see how Japan's past actions in WWII would have anything to do with this except for the part about the Japanese constitution, because any other country in our world would do exactly the same things that Japan did in this story if they were put in the same situation, which is to secure new sources of supplies and defend them in order to survive in the new world. The use of force to stop ethnic cleansing is also pretty common in our modern world with the use of UN peacekeeping troops where several countries commit their own troops to enforce, but I think Japan's constitution usually prohibits the use of combat troops for peacekeeping.
What you may see as "sparing lives" and "humanitarian" is instead what I see as normal rules of engagement. In the first naval battle, Japanese ships rescue the shipwrecked enemy sailors, which is a requirement of international law (well, from the old world), so I don't see anything specifically as propaganda from this behavior. Any other country from our world would be expected to do the same if they were to morally adhere to international law. In the first land battle, they rescued elf villagers from the attacking enemy cavalry. I also don't think this is propaganda, it's just a common way for fictional works to generate some heroism. If civilians were attacked in any other fictional scenario, I think you'd wish someone would come and save them. The part where the villagers see the Japanese rescuers as angels of the gods has more to do with a mythological background arc, which the web novel explains in more detail, but I won't spoil it.
However, there is a part very far into the web novel, which you probably won't see in the manga for several more years (at the pace that the manga is going), where a Japanese soldier makes a command that I found incredibly immoral ( didn't "try to make the enemies surrender at all cost", more like murder), but the author did not expand upon or address it further, and let it slip away.
Anyway, I recommend reading the web novel if you want to see the story with a deeper explanation of what's going on. The manga can't go into great detail because of the limited space and format. Mob of Deer has translated 1/3 of the web novel so far. The remaining chapters I read using Google Translate, which was difficult, but still understandable and interesting. I would say that Summoning Japan (at least the web novel) is much less propagandist than the Gate anime. Summoning Japan (WN) does a pretty believable job of showing what a country might do if it were suddenly transported to a hostile alternate world. I really found the grand scale of the world building and the exploration of the uncharted seas to be very exciting. And oh yes, the incredible slaughter from the difference in military power.
There was a legitimate reason for the use of force in the early chapters so far, although the manga doesn't go into great detail. The web novel explains that Japan imports a lot of food and resources, and as the supply has been cut off from the original world, they have to establish diplomatic relations with the neighboring countries to find alternative sources. They've got 120 million people to feed and supply fossil fuels to. The first nation that they contacted, agreed to supply all of the food that Japan needed. Another one supplies all of their petroleum. But another less self-sufficient neighboring nation decided to invade those countries to take over the food and resources for themselves. They were also racists and used ethnic cleansing against demi-humans. So to protect Japanese interests (resources) they use this and other excuses to get involved with the conflict by kind of twisting the interpretation of the Japanese constitution, which prohibits the use of military force in other countries' domestic affairs, in order to allow them to do so. I don't see how Japan's past actions in WWII would have anything to do with this except for the part about the Japanese constitution, because any other country in our world would do exactly the same things that Japan did in this story if they were put in the same situation, which is to secure new sources of supplies and defend them in order to survive in the new world. The use of force to stop ethnic cleansing is also pretty common in our modern world with the use of UN peacekeeping troops where several countries commit their own troops to enforce, but I think Japan's constitution usually prohibits the use of combat troops for peacekeeping.
What you may see as "sparing lives" and "humanitarian" is instead what I see as normal rules of engagement. In the first naval battle, Japanese ships rescue the shipwrecked enemy sailors, which is a requirement of international law (well, from the old world), so I don't see anything specifically as propaganda from this behavior. Any other country from our world would be expected to do the same if they were to morally adhere to international law. In the first land battle, they rescued elf villagers from the attacking enemy cavalry. I also don't think this is propaganda, it's just a common way for fictional works to generate some heroism. If civilians were attacked in any other fictional scenario, I think you'd wish someone would come and save them. The part where the villagers see the Japanese rescuers as angels of the gods has more to do with a mythological background arc, which the web novel explains in more detail, but I won't spoil it.
However, there is a part very far into the web novel, which you probably won't see in the manga for several more years (at the pace that the manga is going), where a Japanese soldier makes a command that I found incredibly immoral ( didn't "try to make the enemies surrender at all cost", more like murder), but the author did not expand upon or address it further, and let it slip away.
Anyway, I recommend reading the web novel if you want to see the story with a deeper explanation of what's going on. The manga can't go into great detail because of the limited space and format. Mob of Deer has translated 1/3 of the web novel so far. The remaining chapters I read using Google Translate, which was difficult, but still understandable and interesting. I would say that Summoning Japan (at least the web novel) is much less propagandist than the Gate anime. Summoning Japan (WN) does a pretty believable job of showing what a country might do if it were suddenly transported to a hostile alternate world. I really found the grand scale of the world building and the exploration of the uncharted seas to be very exciting. And oh yes, the incredible slaughter from the difference in military power.
@Nk9bjP4A Nope, you can replace by any country, and I will still think like a propaganda.
I just talked about the atrocities because I saw recently quite a few stories where each times the Japanese armies is showed like the true pacifist armies and it was always like that. That Japanese soldiers are just honor and non-aggressive since the dawn of time. I agree, it was a bit bad placed here, I reread and it's true it wasn't like this here. Sorry about that.
What I find is propaganda: the very bad evil villains: instead of having just an invasion by an opposite forces, we have the most barbarians beings attacking a peaceful country.
The fights and dialogues: the japanese are just reciving all in their faces and only ripost when nothing else is possible.
Rescuing the sailors and rescuing the villagers, for that I have no problem, I also think that nearly all modern armies will do the same. What I find propaganda is for example that they gave too much feelings to soldiers. I don't mean that soldiers should be machine or robot, but being a soldier require to be able to control his feelings. Same with any jobs close with sudden deaths, like firefighters, surgeon, police officers, ... If you can't control your feelings, you will break.
Just compare to Gate, a lot of things are here more realistic: when they fight, they try to find the most fast and efficient way to end the conflict, not a wait and see attitude. Instead of sticking to the non-aggression pact, they adapt face to an emergency situation. While the villains are evil, they aren't like the barbarians shown here (Seriously, chapter 4 was over the top). ... I also find that Gate is a bit to the side of propaganda (with the whole "journalists don't understand anything and are just parasites" for example), but I find it better on a lot of points, especially the military tactics and fights. And I am not a big fan of Gate.
I just talked about the atrocities because I saw recently quite a few stories where each times the Japanese armies is showed like the true pacifist armies and it was always like that. That Japanese soldiers are just honor and non-aggressive since the dawn of time. I agree, it was a bit bad placed here, I reread and it's true it wasn't like this here. Sorry about that.
What I find is propaganda: the very bad evil villains: instead of having just an invasion by an opposite forces, we have the most barbarians beings attacking a peaceful country.
The fights and dialogues: the japanese are just reciving all in their faces and only ripost when nothing else is possible.
Rescuing the sailors and rescuing the villagers, for that I have no problem, I also think that nearly all modern armies will do the same. What I find propaganda is for example that they gave too much feelings to soldiers. I don't mean that soldiers should be machine or robot, but being a soldier require to be able to control his feelings. Same with any jobs close with sudden deaths, like firefighters, surgeon, police officers, ... If you can't control your feelings, you will break.
Just compare to Gate, a lot of things are here more realistic: when they fight, they try to find the most fast and efficient way to end the conflict, not a wait and see attitude. Instead of sticking to the non-aggression pact, they adapt face to an emergency situation. While the villains are evil, they aren't like the barbarians shown here (Seriously, chapter 4 was over the top). ... I also find that Gate is a bit to the side of propaganda (with the whole "journalists don't understand anything and are just parasites" for example), but I find it better on a lot of points, especially the military tactics and fights. And I am not a big fan of Gate.
@Ovnidemon hmm... I think if you try reading the web novel (search for Mob of Deer translation), you may be more satisfied than the manga version. The web novel goes into very great detail about tactics, weaponry, and battle progression. It is difficult to show these types of details in manga illustration format.
The web novel spends a lot of time describing the emotions of the "barbarian" soldiers as they die, while they stand exposed on the battlefield and experience death all around them. In contrast, it does not spend much time describing the emotions of Japanese soldiers. I think it's because the Japanese soldiers are located far away from the battlefield and seeing it on a video display, while pressing buttons to fire their long ranged weapons, so it becomes less emotional for them.
I don't know how hostile was the environment in the medieval times, but I can imagine that lawless countries that are controlled by dictators or monarchies are more violent, where survival of the strongest is the law, and war is more common. So it's not so unbelievable that aggressive countries would attack their neighbors to steal land and resources. It is kind of the basis for all the conflicts in the web novel.
The web novel spends a lot of time describing the emotions of the "barbarian" soldiers as they die, while they stand exposed on the battlefield and experience death all around them. In contrast, it does not spend much time describing the emotions of Japanese soldiers. I think it's because the Japanese soldiers are located far away from the battlefield and seeing it on a video display, while pressing buttons to fire their long ranged weapons, so it becomes less emotional for them.
The "barbarian" soldiers are affected more emotionally because of their slaughter. (Spoiler) But the Japanese maintain high moral because they lose zero soldiers, since they're attacking from outside enemy range.
I don't know how hostile was the environment in the medieval times, but I can imagine that lawless countries that are controlled by dictators or monarchies are more violent, where survival of the strongest is the law, and war is more common. So it's not so unbelievable that aggressive countries would attack their neighbors to steal land and resources. It is kind of the basis for all the conflicts in the web novel.
@Nk9bjP4A Aggressive countries, yes, barbaric, no. They were countries barbaric like that, but they were plunderer, not invader. Though they were commanders like that, here, it's the whole country. And the reason why a invasive country can't be like that is simple: you can't expand your country if it's so violent, soldiers and commoners need to live close together near the borders, but if the soldiers are too violent, even if it's only against enemies, you can't expect common people to sleep soundly nearby. (It's not about Middle Age, it's everywhere, every time period, with some exception (ex: aztec fanaticism). For example, american forts with a cruel anti-native commander were generally avoided by people, even by those hating natives (to a certain extent) (They could accept living near the buried bodies of natives but not living near the skinned bodies of natives. It gives nightmares))
For the rest, maybe it's the manga, not the first time the adaptation is very different from the original. I'll try the novel.
For the rest, maybe it's the manga, not the first time the adaptation is very different from the original. I'll try the novel.
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Gonna wait until the 2nd Nanking.
Dex-chan lover
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By 2nd Nanking do you mean
the slaughter of 200 men women and children Japanese tourists by another empire more obnoxious than Louria?
Group Leader
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Short ass chapters....
Group Leader
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I see this author is a student of Mad Snail
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It's basically Low-Budget Gate.
Fed-Kun's army
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Thould like to see a manga where an alien otheradvanced weaponized alien nation is isekaied on earth and ally themselves with random backwater country.
The reaction would be ludicrous when they will wipe out americans/russian/chinese/etc who would come to sightsee what the shit happens. :d
The reaction would be ludicrous when they will wipe out americans/russian/chinese/etc who would come to sightsee what the shit happens. :d
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