Ori no Naka - Ch. 26 - Karma

[danbellucci]

Women SAY they prefer personality over looks but every buff/tall man's lived experience reveals something different

The older you get the less looks matter. Looks matter tonnes for teens and college students because most of them are being provided for by their parents so they don't need to worry about whether a man will be a good provider, and every young person theoretically has a lot of potential so a female can delude herself into thinking that the himbo she is with could turn things around and be a decent provider.
But as women start working and get older into their twenties they care more and more about how successful a man is both because they find it sexy that a man is able to climb hierarchies and be higher status and more competent than other men (women find competence sexy) and also because they start seriously thinking about whether a man would be a good provider for their future family.

So incels and ugly bros are absolutely right that handsome men are almost always more successful with women in their teens and early twenties but they leave out or are unaware of the fact that competence and success start mattering just as much or more in the mid-late twenties and thirties.
Unfortunately for incels they're usually incompetent and mentally ill and unsuccessful or they develop such bitter and repellent personalities that even if they manage to get in a position where they would be a decent provider, their resentful personality makes them too offputting to be around.

 

[danbellucci]

You aren't reading. She doesn't believe she can get divorced, she genuinely believes there is no hope. SHE DOESN'T LOVE SA, she thinks she has no choice but to "love" it. Her husband doesn't actually give a shit that she cheats, he is equally addicted to harming her.

This coworker's misogynistic and self-pitying speech was literally the author pointing out how people tend to view women, and to a smaller degree, men who try to be better. He was holding a mirror to a toxic viewpoint that I assume he once had, maybe struggles to fight against, judging by his previous works.

I admire this author. It takes a lot of guts to bring these topics up, especially in the gooner space that he has occupied for a while.

The author is excoriating both incels like Ugly bastard and BPD sloots aka "abuse victims" like Yumezora. You think he's on the side of one group because that's the side you identify with more.

 

[dsfargeg]

It won't change the fact that victims from sexual assault have rape kinks to heal their trauma.

Yes, I'm informing you of the term for it because the term is pithy and succinct.

Did you just say that used period pads at the WORKPLACE and was used by a COWORKER isn't a crime? It is sexual harassment. Dude, he took the pad from the bathroom.

Yes, that is in fact literally what I said. I also explained which law it most likely violates and why. Repeating your wrong statement louder doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like an emotionally underdeveloped idiot that hasn't yet mastered distinguishing between "I feel things should be this way" and "This is the way things are."

But as women start working and get older into their twenties they care more and more about how successful a man is both because they find it sexy that a man is able to climb hierarchies and be higher status and more competent than other men (women find competence sexy) and also because they start seriously thinking about whether a man would be a good provider for their future family.

I think this is a bit of an oversimplification. Women don't stick with sexy broke losers, but they do have sex with them. If you just want to have a lot of sex but not have a lot of wife, being hot is really good for that. On the other hand, being successful but unsexy makes you very good at pulling a wife (who's admittedly likely to divorce you down the line to take half your shit because she's not attracted to you) but makes casual sex harder.

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, just that modeling female attraction as a one-dimensional yes/no axis is imprecise.

The author is excoriating both incels like Ugly bastard and BPD sloots aka "abuse victims" like Yumezora. You think he's on the side of one group because that's the side you identify with more.

The author's holding up a mirror to shitty behavior from awful people and people are claiming their reflection is the good guy to comfort themselves.

 

[danbellucci]

BTW women who have been molested since 5 years old and beaten and neglected by their parents almost never end up as pretty as Yumezora.

Having the genes to end up as pretty as Yumezora is rare to begin with , but having all that happen to you as a kid makes it much harder to reach the full beauty potential of your genes (and people from that socioeconomic group are likely to have worse beauty genes anyway, since women with good beauty genes are much mor likely to marry up and leave that lower class group). Much more likely to get into drugs or heavy drinking and smoking which all make you age much faster and look haggard. Who knows the mechanism (maybe lots of cortisol?) but women with that kind of low class, violent upbringing simply have a certain lower-class, haggard look about them

 

[mrboxeater]

Are jirai kei just pinatas filled with pills?

That ugly bastards definitely gonna go on a stabbing spree but i think hes too busy commenting here lmao

 

[danbellucci]

It's crazy that the author has officially spelled it out for us that Yumezora has been victimized over and over and has been blamed for it by her very abusers, but some readers continue to villify her.
I hope Gomi can reach into his seemingly natural empathy to recognize what is going on and find her help or at least go to the cops. He has literally shown greater emotional intelligence than so many commentators :/

lol literally one chapter ago you were saying that Yumezora doesn't realise that it's bad when people besides herself get hurt and you're still claiming that this doesn't make her a bad person. https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-25-the-mans-story.2405606/post-27537962

At this point it sounds like Yumezora could wake up next chapter, pick up a kitchen knife and stab Gomi in the heart to prevent him from leaving her and you'd still be saying rubbish like
"poor, innocent Yumezora, how can people villify this angel? I can't believe everyone is so lacking in emotional intelligence that they'd consider a SURVIVOR of ABUSE to be an adult with agency "

 

[Late_Komei]

Tough read. I would be mentally exhausted if I was Gomi.

 

[danbellucci]

Tough read. I would be mentally exhausted if I was Gomi.

He's probably going to get tricked to sticking with her through her pregnancy with Moyupu's baby after being told it's his even though they've only done it with condoms.

 

[soda_bunny]

The author is excoriating both incels like Ugly bastard and BPD sloots aka "abuse victims" like Yumezora. You think he's on the side of one group because that's the side you identify with more.

You have some of the worst reading comprehension I've ever seen.
The author clearly considers Yumezora to be the primary sympathetic character. It's her past and motivations that are spelled out and dwelled on, it's her pain that is centered, and the characters that blame her are clowned and presented as whiny entitled monsters.

Maybe you happen to identify with the incel side, that might be clouding your view.

 

[soda_bunny]

lol literally one chapter ago you were saying that Yumezora doesn't realise that it's bad when people besides herself get hurt and you're still claiming that this doesn't make her a bad person. https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-25-the-mans-story.2405606/post-27537962

At this point it sounds like Yumezora could wake up next chapter, pick up a kitchen knife and stab Gomi in the heart to prevent him from leaving her and you'd still be saying rubbish like
"poor, innocent Yumezora, how can people villify this angel? I can't believe everyone is so lacking in emotional intelligence that they'd consider a SURVIVOR of ABUSE to be an adult with agency "

Again with the reading comprehension. You are so eager to prove me wrong you can't even keep track of what I meant.
I am arguing against your vile philosophy that victims of abuse or mental illness should be shunned. Do you have a little study that shows how completely shunning and refusing to treat people helps society?

 

[danbellucci]

You have some of the worst reading comprehension I've ever seen.
The author clearly considers Yumezora to be the primary sympathetic character. It's her past and motivations that are spelled out and dwelled on, it's her pain that is centered, and the characters that blame her are clowned and presented as whiny entitled monsters.

This is sounding a bit like "she's literally me!"

Maybe you happen to identify with the incel side, that might be clouding your view.

This accusation doesn't land as well on me given what I've written about incels in this and other chapters. My impeccable , insightful , scientifically well-informed posting record speaks for itself.

 

[pink_rabbit]

Yes, that is in fact literally what I said. I also explained which law it most likely violates and why. Repeating your wrong statement louder doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like an emotionally underdeveloped idiot that hasn't yet mastered distinguishing between "I feel things should be this way" and "This is the way things are.

Uhhhhhhh.... you said this....

Stealing garbage from a public place isn't a crime.

I can't tell if you are looking for an argument to jerk off to or genuinely feeling this. Either way, I am not the one who said this comment. YOU did.

I think its insulting to those who are mentally disabled when pretty sure they know better. If you can do better.

 

[danbellucci]

Again with the reading comprehension. You are so eager to prove me wrong you can't even keep track of what I meant.

reading comprehension? let's see whether what you wrote matches what I claim you wrote.
https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-25-the-mans-story.2405606/page-4#post-27537962
You: "Yumezora is unable to grasp that other people getting hurt is a bad thing. She might understand semantically, but she doesn't actually get it enough to be able to change her behavior."
What I said you wrote : " literally one chapter ago you were saying that Yumezora doesn't realise that it's bad when people besides herself get hurt"
Sounds a lot like what I said you wrote to me! Are you going to pretend that you meant something totally different? You know that bad "reading comprehension" doesn't mean when people point out the implications of what you wrote in ways that you don't like?

I am arguing against your vile philosophy that victims of abuse or mental illness should be shunned. Do you have a little study that shows how completely shunning and refusing to treat people helps society?

Hmm this comment sounds like you are frustrated and seething over the fact that you cannot refute any of the facts from behavioural genetics and psychology that I dropped on you in this post
https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-23-habits.2390972/post-27407615
Maybe you would be less upset and frustrated if your worldview didn't rely on you denying well replicated scientific evidence
In the mean time other people are going to continue to make rational decisions under uncertainty and be aware of the fact that abuse victims and people with abusive parents are more likely to be bad people and act accordingly.

 

[soda_bunny]

This is sounding a bit like "she's literally me!"

This accusation doesn't land as well on me given what I've written about incels in this and other chapters. My impeccable , insightful , scientifically well-informed posting record speaks for itself.

I'm literally just describing the scenes as they are. I'm sorry you have trouble reading.
And lol that self-flattery really doesn't do you any favors.

 

[danbellucci]

Especially when the author shows her having sex w/ her husband in 21 and it's dead eyes and "marriage isn't for me" rather than the excitement she has for Gomi. Like she's 15 shades of messed up but also the author has shown us that it's more complicated than ugly dude is saying.

It's perfectly possible and not unlikely that she wasn't excited having sex with Moyupu on that occasion and she was in rapture and ecstasy having sex with Moyupu just after he beat up that other guy.
I don't think you can use normal reasoning on such things with broken lunatics like Yumezora.
But it's true that one thing you can count on this story for is that there are always more twists.

 

[soda_bunny]

reading comprehension? let's see whether what you wrote matches what I claim you wrote.
https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-25-the-mans-story.2405606/page-4#post-27537962
You: "Yumezora is unable to grasp that other people getting hurt is a bad thing. She might understand semantically, but she doesn't actually get it enough to be able to change her behavior."
What I said you wrote : " literally one chapter ago you were saying that Yumezora doesn't realise that it's bad when people besides herself get hurt"
Sounds a lot like what I said you wrote to me! Are you going to pretend that you meant something totally different? You know that bad "reading comprehension" doesn't mean when people point out the implications of what you wrote in ways that you don't like?


Hmm this comment sounds like you are frustrated and seething over the fact that you cannot refute any of the facts from behavioural genetics and psychology that I dropped on you in this post
https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-23-habits.2390972/post-27407615
Maybe you would be less upset and frustrated if your worldview didn't rely on you denying well replicated scientific evidence
In the mean time other people are going to continue to make rational decisions under uncertainty and be aware of the fact that abuse victims and people with abusive parents are more likely to be bad people and act accordingly.

Okay I think the problem is a fundamental disagreement on what a "bad person" is. Is behavior genetic? Yes, but not entirely. Can behavior be modified? Of course it can, you're willfully ignorant if you think otherwise.

 

[danbellucci]

I'm literally just describing the scenes as they are. I'm sorry you have trouble reading.

"The author clearly considers Yumezora to be the primary sympathetic character" , "her pain is centered" , "the characters that blame her are presented as whiny entitled monsters "
lol, lmao
This is laughably biased. The author considers Yumezora to be a total disaster, a biohazard. There's a reason she is that way but that in itself doesn't make her sympathetic in any strong sense (in a trivial sense, you could say any child who had something bad happen to them deserves sympathy, but that isn't particularly meaningful if they're now an adult and it is part of their personality to continually use other people) . Gomi and Yumezora are both the main characters, and if anything his negative feelings have been what is centered. We hardly ever see into Yumezora's head. We only see Yumezora through gomi or a disembodied narrator while with Gomi we regularly experience his thoughts and POV directly. Extrapolating from the fact that an abusive husband and an incel stalker are portrayed as bad to a thematic rule that any condemnation of Yumezora is illegitimate and makes you a monster is an outrageous reach.
It's crazy wishful thinking.
Yumezora-like even.

 

[danbellucci]

Okay I think the problem is a fundamental disagreement on what a "bad person" is.

Clearly. You've essentially said that no matter what Yumezora does to harm other people she isn't a bad person because bad things happened to her in the past. So yes you have a very strange, possibly self-serving idea of what a bad person is.

Is behavior genetic? Yes, but not entirely.

Woah woah woah woah. So you mean to say that apple doesn't fall far from the tree? That bad behaviour is genetically inherited from parents who also had bad behaviour genes?
I can't believe I'm hearing this "EUGENICS APOLOGISM" coming from you when just a few chapters ago you called the same statement eugenics apologism.
https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-23-habits.2390972/post-27404618
Well done finally backpeddling and admitting that I was right

Can behavior be modified? Of course it can, you're willfully ignorant if you think otherwise.

Yes , and I didn't say otherwse. Although if someone as spent their life from childhood to adulthood being criminal/antisocial/insane/whatever other malady then they're most likely going to continue being that way.

 

[soda_bunny]

Clearly. You've essentially said that no matter what Yumezora does to harm other people she isn't a bad person because bad things happened to her in the past. So yes you have a very strange, possibly self-serving idea of what a bad person is.

Woah woah woah woah. So you mean to say that apple doesn't fall far from the tree? That bad behaviour is genetically inherited from parents who also had bad behaviour genes?
I can't believe I'm hearing this "EUGENICS APOLOGISM" coming from you when just a few chapters ago you called the same statement eugenics apologism.
https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-23-habits.2390972/post-27404618
Well done finally backpeddling and admitting that I was right

Yes , and I didn't say otherwse. Although if someone as spent their life from childhood to adulthood being criminal/antisocial/insane/whatever other malady then they're most likely going to continue being that way.

Please don't flatter yourself. I don't have to point out how creepy your points are. You just started spouting redpill bs about women finding "competence" sexy, like fucking duh, god forbid anyone, not just women appreciate their parter not be unable to care for themselves.

I work with and have family with autism, I appreciate that you take thing very seriously and like it when things are very black and white. I understand you may have difficulty reading between the lines. So, unfortunately, I gotta leave you here. I actually also do rehabiliative work with people like Yumezora, Gomi and this UB, and I have a lot of respect for their efforts. I 100% find your viewpoint offensive and regressive. I am glad you're a shrinking minority.

 

[danbellucci]

Please don't flatter yourself. I don't have to point out how creepy your points are. You just started spouting redpill bs about women finding "competence" sexy, like fucking duh, god forbid anyone, not just women appreciate their parter not be unable to care for themselves.

I work with and have family with autism, I appreciate that you take thing very seriously and like it when things are very black and white. I understand you may have difficulty reading between the lines. So, unfortunately, I gotta leave you here. I actually also do rehabiliative work with people like Yumezora, Gomi and this UB, and I have a lot of respect for their efforts. I 100% find your viewpoint offensive and regressive. I am glad you're a shrinking minority.

The offensive and regressive view that the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree? The view that you've been dragged, kicking and screaming, into admitting is true? https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-26-karma.2413169/post-27602180
And no, people are actually going go grow more and more aware of the findings of behavioural genetics in the future, especially as more data for genome-wide-association studies gets gathered people become able to predict things like schizophrenia and violent behaviour better and better from their dna alone.
If you're betting on scientific and technological knowledge shrinking then you're in for a lifetime of disappointment and coping.
And no people aren't going to throw common sense out the window and pretend that people with troubled childhoods are not more likely to become criminals or harm others when that's empirically true.

btw, how exactly is it "redpill bs" that women find competence sexy , when they next sentence you say "duh" and so admit that it is obviously true? Don't you mean "redpill truth" rather than "redpill bullshit" ?

"I work with and have family with autism, I appreciate that you take thing very seriously and like it when things are very black and white."
This is very funny given that I know you'd be the first person to call someone "ableist" if you overheard someone use the word "autistic" to describe argumentative or pedantic behaviour.
BTW can you show an example of me inaccurately simplifying something into black and white? I don't think you can because every claim I've made about psychology and genetics has been accurate and most of your attempts to correct me have consisted of attacking strawmen that I never said.