Risou no Himo Seikatsu - Vol. 17 Ch. 72 - Spirit Maiden

[finalm]

1. Solid material wouldn't easily form shape, because you can't just "imagine" it.
2. They already have Water Creation Magic to literally summon magic freely, a water doll is redundant.
3. Again, anything that enables the doll to be "useful" are either already taken care of by a different magic or simply takes too much effort to use with this magic. Take Frikya's version, 203 mana only gives them a smol doll that lasts 30 seconds AND require water to be there, the full version would probably require 10k-20k mana and only a few people could even perform it.

1. Why? It's not like the water doll is holding it's shape only due to viscosity, there have to be forces holding it's consitutents in some way. Why would making them hold material like soil be any more difficult?

2. It's not, you can only summon water where there already are magicians capable of doing so. Large water golems could be made in the capital and ordered to walk themselves anywhere.

3. That might be the case, or it might not - how are we supposed to know without actually trying to develop it? Even if it is, depending on the results it might be worth it - after all the point is to make them pretty much self sustained via enchanting the marbles, therefore even if you spend a lot you might get a perpetually existing golem that will "pay for itself" in time. In any case, this is a discussion of whether it's ultimately worth it and to anwser that, the idea itself must first register to the researchers. My whole point is, that somehow it has not...

 

[RonBWL]

1. Why? It's not like the water doll is holding it's shape only due to viscosity, there have to be forces holding it's consitutents in some way. Why would making them hold material like soil be any more difficult?

2. It's not, you can only summon water where there already are magicians capable of doing so. Large water golems could be made in the capital and ordered to walk themselves anywhere.

3. That might be the case, or it might not - how are we supposed to know without actually trying to develop it? Even if it is, depending on the results it might be worth it - after all the point is to make them pretty much self sustained via enchanting the marbles, therefore even if you spend a lot you might get a perpetually existing golem that will "pay for itself" in time. In any case, this is a discussion of whether it's ultimately worth it and to answers that, the idea itself must first register to the researchers. My whole point is, that somehow it has not...

1. Aura did explain that in order to teleport, one must envision the destination accurately, so I'm going to assume the same principle applies to this spell - it's easy with water, but with solid material you're going to run into trouble trying to visualize corners and edge in your mind.

2. They have flying dragons, if a province is desperately in need of water it's much faster to just fly the mage there and create water.

3. It's already established that the "supporter" for the head family chief is someone with great magic capacity, so we know that an actual full-sized Jinnia will require that much amount of Mana.

To conclude my point: The researchers never thought of it BECAUSE they have no concept of any shortcut to make it feasible - we as readers (and Zenjirou himself) know about the marbles, but Frikya and Espirdion don't. Back in the old days, Bestowal Magic wasn't introduced to the four tribes, so of course they wouldn't think of developing this spell any further.

 

[finalm]

1. Aura did explain that in order to teleport, one must envision the destination accurately, so I'm going to assume the same principle applies to this spell - it's easy with water, but with solid material you're going to run into trouble trying to visualize corners and edge in your mind.

2. They have flying dragons, if a province is desperately in need of water it's much faster to just fly the mage there and create water.

3. It's already established that the "supporter" for the head family chief is someone with great magic capacity, so we know that an actual full-sized Jinnia will require that much amount of Mana.

To conclude my point: The researchers never thought of it BECAUSE they have no concept of any shortcut to make it feasible - we as readers (and Zenjirou himself) know about the marbles, but Frikya and Espirdion don't. Back in the old days, Bestowal Magic wasn't introduced to the four tribes, so of course they wouldn't think of developing this spell any further.

1. If someone has trouble imagining angles (though I can't understand why), then they can just visualize them as smooth surfaces instead. One doesn't have to design a Gundam here, a "derpy", round doll would do as long as it can move without issue.

2. That's the thing - if you only account for emergencies then why change anything at all? The country has been trudging along so far without anything like that, so it'll continue to do that. However, when increasing resources, you'd expect higher yields, population growth and an overall better prosperity. That means those larger resources are going to become a constant necessity, not something you do once in a blue moon. Are you going to constatly fly magicians all across the country? How many can you even get? How many of them would agree to be stationed in the middle of nowhere for possibly their whole lives (since a resource-starved settlement won't become a meaningful one overnight)? You can not use this method to meaningfully improve your lands.

3. That doesn't tell us much. First thing - it's mentioned that the supporter had "a lot of mana" but assuming that the spell took all of it is pretty baseless. Even if it did, you yourself pointed out that it was a version that had to pull water out of the air (for the benefit of the deception), rather than use an existing reservoir - that has to have a substantial cost, as even Fikriya decided to omit that particular step as a priority (that would make sense, since initiating a phase change requires a lot more energy than simply taking the substance to the proper temperature). Finally, there's nothing to suggest that her family's way of doing things was optimal, there might be a far better way to cast it. Again, impossible to know without actually working on the topic.

Sorry but your conculuson makes absolutely no sense. You're saying that the concept didn't even occur to them because they couldn't come up with a way to make it into a practical version? That's like thinking of a solution to a question you haven't asked yourself yet, what the hell? I clarified that I did not expect them to come up with solutions yet, I wanted to see the question asked. The question being "could this possibly be insanely useful?"

 

[jackblk]

TL for TL! Your health is the highest priority, we can all wait .

 

[wilddeath]

Wait, there are some big misconceptions here. The "discovery" of gravity you're refering to is Newton's work I presume? Well, that was a complete mathematical model that was successful at predicting (some) planet's orbits, along with a whole calculus system. It can't be compared to the "simple and obvious" things you mentioned.

I don't know what exactly you mean about "court" but if it's the concept of judging someone institutionally, then it has already existed in ancient Mesopotamia, possibly even in pre-history. If those examples seem too different to you, then ancient Rome certainly shouldn't - there's a reason why much of modern law and principles is based on theirs.

It's hard to say when they realized, but probably around the same time when they came to know that corpses out in the open cause the same, so yeah - pre-history. I'm afraid that the story about medieval people just throwing shit on the streets and everyone being fine with that is a myth. Cities back then certainly weren't what we'd call clean but they did try. There were cleaners for city streets and communal cesspits where dumping was expected to happen. Germ theory was of course unknown, but that's just it - it doesn't take a modern scientist to notice that wherever some basic cleanliness isn't maintained, people fall ill in mass.

Nuclear weapons are a product of a massive project that was supposed to develop them. There's nothing unforseen here, unless you mean that Einstein and other physicists did not expect their work to be used like that. In that case, it's a story as old as humanity.

Yes, I would expect regular people with no magic development background to reason like this. Not those two however, their whole job is to think about new discoveries that would benefit their countries. Such people existed among IRL ancient civilizations and you'd be suprised what they would come up with. As I mentioned, Espiridion at least has an excuse, he hasn't had time to think about it. The girl however has worked on this for a long time and her family presumably had a far better version in the past - how has not anyone even entertained the concept that something that follows orders could be used more practically? I'm not talking about the details of how and what, just the very concept. I'd also understand if her ancestors decided not to work on this - after all, you can hardly make a pseudo-religious, supernatural figure start helping with mundane construction or something, they'd see this as counter to what they already did.

So here is the thing. She points out in the chapter that the reason she came to the desert country is partly because water doll magic research is forbidden in her country for "seemingly" no reason. Until it's said otherwise, i suspect it is because someone a long time ago figured out the possible military applications of the magic if it ever got further developed and decided that it wasn't worth the risk. She is literally researching forbidden magic (at least for her country), and has no idea of the marble project or that it could allow for the making of infinite Doll soldiers. She is excited, and young, and foolish. It is expected that she doesn't have the foresight to even imagine her magic research being used for war crimes. It's the older mage that should have more insight into this and your points are valid about him.

 

[finalm]

So here is the thing. She points out in the chapter that the reason she came to the desert country is partly because water doll magic research is forbidden in her country for "seemingly" no reason. Until it's said otherwise, i suspect it is because someone a long time ago figured out the possible military applications of the magic if it ever got further developed and decided that it wasn't worth the risk. She is literally researching forbidden magic (at least for her country), and has no idea of the marble project or that it could allow for the making of infinite Doll soldiers. She is excited, and young, and foolish. It is expected that she doesn't have the foresight to even imagine her magic research being used for war crimes. It's the older mage that should have more insight into this and your points are valid about him.

Can you specifically point out where it's stated that this research was ever forbidden? I've re-read it and can find nothing like that. It's a lost magic, that is currently being re-discovered by not only her but other noble families (El Mentecato and Riafon are mentioned) and it's not a secret project so it simply can not be forbidden. Also, she said those who are working on it are known to value tradition a lot, so there's no indication that they have an inkling about possible applications (at least, to Fikriya's knowledge).

War is only one possible application and probably both the most demanding and least useful, to be honest. To make effective fighting machines, you'd need to improve those dolls far beyond following simple orders, wheras in civil use cases you only need a big and strong one that can move to designated places, pick up and put down heavy objects to have a crane, for example. Peaceful applications far outnumber any military ones.

 

[Grikath]

Glass marbles are like providing medieval bowmen with guns.

Not really... At best it would provide the archers with cheap and plentyful ammo...

The marbles as a replacement for the currently used expensive and rare cores removes, or at least mitigates, one limitation on producing magical devices.
They do not suddenly make mass production possible, since the limiting factor shifts to what the artisan can produce in a certain period of time, if all the other materials are also present.

They make magical devices more affordable, but do not necessarily speed up production, or allow "upgrades" to existing designs.
As this chapter proves and clarifies, there are more factors at play regarding magic in this world than mere materials. Which is another part of the depth in this Manga: Magic isn't simply shouting something and poof it happens, it's an actual Science, ruled by quite inflexible laws, specific engineering/craftsmanship, and an incomplete understanding of all the facets regarding Magic Language.

It really is like Quantum mechanics, and the Standard Model: We obviously don't know everything yet, because there's still Funny Things Happening. Yet it works most of the time.

 

[Grikath]

Gravity was 'discovered' in XVII century. First court was made in I believe XIII century. How long do you think it took for people to realize that feces on the streets causes people to be ill?

Gravity as a concept was known to the ancient Greeks. Very little has survived the Ages, but there's mentions in derivative works, Greek, Roman, and early Islamic ( before the people with way more Religion than Common Sense took over there.. See also Protestantism and Puritans..).

Feces on the streets were known to be Bad For You in any civilisation that had Big Cities. Or even moderately sized towns and villages. "poisoning the well" and suchlike are OLD expressions.

It wasn't until the XVIIth century that such knowledge wasn't "valid" until some Academic had written a Paper about it. And "invented" something everbody + dog already knew. But that didn't count...
Quite a lot of that was even because of the printing press, and wider availability of ancient greek/roman/islamic texts and their translations. This gave birth to the modern "Academic" , not to be confused with actual Scientists, which were, and still are rare beasts.
And still as Unpopular in Academic Circles... Because they Poke things there's "Consensus" about... And prove the Establishment.... Wrong... And Academics are never wrong!!

 

[wilddeath]

Can you specifically point out where it's stated that this research was ever forbidden? I've re-read it and can find nothing like that. It's a lost magic, that is currently being re-discovered by not only her but other noble families (El Mentecato and Riafon are mentioned) and it's not a secret project so it simply can not be forbidden. Also, she said those who are working on it are known to value tradition a lot, so there's no indication that they have an inkling about possible applications (at least, to Fikriya's knowledge).

War is only one possible application and probably both the most demanding and least useful, to be honest. To make effective fighting machines, you'd need to improve those dolls far beyond following simple orders, wheras in civil use cases you only need a big and strong one that can move to designated places, pick up and put down heavy objects to have a crane, for example. Peaceful applications far outnumber any military ones.

ok lets see can i upload images... if i can't figure it out its the bottom right panel of page 19, how the secret magic is considered taboo. In the official english translation which i have access to it is made more clear that her path of research is considered highly taboo if not forbidden by her family. It goes on to explain on page...24 and 25 somewhere around there that the spell did exist but it was forgotten, implied to be intentionally forgotten, to history hence the taboo about researching it.

Ok so let me see can i upload images... damn no i can't it need to be uploaded to a website first. If you can recommend me a hosting website for the images im cropping from the official translation i can post them here.

Anyway, the gist is that the spell was originally created to be part of a giant con artist act for political gain, but was forgotten to time cause it was intentionally not passed down. I have to imagine there would be no reason for that unless someone foresaw there would be consequences in the future if people learned to improve the spell as she has, hence the spell being a taboo subject in her family.

Unless of course i have completely misunderstood her family history. Then I am wrong.

 

[finalm]

ok lets see can i upload images... if i can't figure it out its the bottom right panel of page 19, how the secret magic is considered taboo. In the official english translation which i have access to it is made more clear that her path of research is considered highly taboo if not forbidden by her family. It goes on to explain on page...24 and 25 somewhere around there that the spell did exist but it was forgotten, implied to be intentionally forgotten, to history hence the taboo about researching it.

Ok so let me see can i upload images... damn no i can't it need to be uploaded to a website first. If you can recommend me a hosting website for the images im cropping from the official translation i can post them here.

Anyway, the gist is that the spell was originally created to be part of a giant con artist act for political gain, but was forgotten to time cause it was intentionally not passed down. I have to imagine there would be no reason for that unless someone foresaw there would be consequences in the future if people learned to improve the spell as she has, hence the spell being a taboo subject in her family.

Unless of course i have completely misunderstood her family history. Then I am wrong.

I suppose that is a possibility, but I honestly don't see much to support it. I noticed the "taboo" comment, but didn't even bring it up, since that simply means "we don't talk about it" - and why would they? Talking about it only increases the chances that 2 things become public knowledge:
1. What you've already said yourself: that their begginings boil down to con artists. Regardless of how their rule is seen contemporarily by their people, it's a pretty bad image for a noble family and can be used to undermine their legitimacy.
2. That they lost a big piece of their own culture in the form of the spell. Reminding people about that ancestry story would only lead to demands to start performing the ritual again and they are unable to.

Furthermore, it was said that the fact the ritual was fake is a secret, Fikriya had to get her family's approval to share that. With all of this, it makes sense that the topic is taboo. As I've mentioned before though, it's outright stated that multiple tribes are working to bring it back and there's no mention of them being secretive about it so I can't imagine there's any actual prohibition.

I see no mention of it being intentionally not passed down. It's actually said to have been partially passed down (they do know a lot about the ritual itself, if not the spell). It's pretty common in history to lose the fine details, especially if it's something shameful to the people involved. This confidence trick was meant to gain them recognition from royal families possessing actual bloodline magic and was said to have failed, so there was probably little motivation to preserve it - another strong indicator that even then no one even thought of trying to use it for anything other that a magic trick.

 

[lolfacesayshi]

Not really... At best it would provide the archers with cheap and plentyful ammo...

The marbles as a replacement for the currently used expensive and rare cores removes, or at least mitigates, one limitation on producing magical devices.
They do not suddenly make mass production possible, since the limiting factor shifts to what the artisan can produce in a certain period of time, if all the other materials are also present.

They make magical devices more affordable, but do not necessarily speed up production, or allow "upgrades" to existing designs.
As this chapter proves and clarifies, there are more factors at play regarding magic in this world than mere materials. Which is another part of the depth in this Manga: Magic isn't simply shouting something and poof it happens, it's an actual Science, ruled by quite inflexible laws, specific engineering/craftsmanship, and an incomplete understanding of all the facets regarding Magic Language.

It really is like Quantum mechanics, and the Standard Model: We obviously don't know everything yet, because there's still Funny Things Happening. Yet it works most of the time.

I know. I was trying to convey in one sentence what you had to with 4 paragraphs.

 

[kikix12]

I don't know what exactly you mean about "court" but if it's the concept of judging someone institutionally, (...)

A court is a court. Judging is judging. While judging is done in a court, a court is not judging.

Before courts, judging was done largely by lords or their representatives. Or...well...populace, but that's hardly the kind of judging most would want.

It's like the difference between there being education and there being schools (those are ancient, yes, but that's not why I bring them up). People taught one another since the literal beginning of humanity. But a structured, widely available institution meant to teach people in multiple fields, despite not necessarily being related to those fields themselves, required the civilization to actually progress to a certain level.

Returning to the courts...why it is important? When you have someone like the lord or his selected representatives judge people over anything that requires judging...you have not only a lot of bias but also very little chance of fairness. Under similar circumstances, the outcome can be different.
Constructing a more specialized structure, honing in on fields that are being judged, lowers these risks. That is what courts, institutions that are specialized in judging instead of doing it alongside other responsibilities, are offering.
Of course...that doesn't mean that they instantly worked well like that...and they certainly stopped working all that well somewhere along the way as well...but that's a different story.

I'm afraid that the story about medieval people just throwing shit on the streets and everyone being fine with that is a myth.

No one would be fine with something smelling absolutely pungently all the time around them. That does not correspond to them knowing what effect it has on health to any relevant level beyond just 'it stinks, I need to vomit!'.

Rotting corpses are another thing entirely. Meat is something you eat. Even outside of cannibals that would themselves obviously get sick from eating human meat, humans always observed animals and most animals won't touch rotting meat. Humans also learned after eating rotting meat of animals. If they didn't...humanity would have likely gone extinct so they kind of didn't have an option not to if we're here.

(...) it doesn't take a modern scientist to notice that wherever some basic cleanliness isn't maintained, people fall ill in mass.

Again, you are looking through the prism of your knowledge. Concepts that are absolutely obvious to you don't have to be obvious to people that had no contact with knowledge about them. Humans can live with things, without understanding them. Humans used fire long, LONG before understanding it. Heck, I'm sure that many people even in modern times don't actually know what fire is exactly.

The fact that humans had serious outbreaks of sicknesses that were caused and/or compounded by lack of cleanliness is more than enough evidence of that. If they really did know the correlation between the two to what is nowadays considered a 'basic level', there just wouldn't be so many issues caused by lack of it.

In that case, it's a story as old as humanity.

Which you try to deny with your posts.

Not those two however, their whole job is to think about new discoveries that would benefit their countries.

I don't think you would go far as a scientist.

Advancing science requires actually acting, not just thinking. Just thinking is what philosophers do. Yes, many philosophers were also scientists. But 'also' is a key word here.

I'll tell you this, as a pragmatic person.
1) There's a problem.
2) There's a need to solve the problem.
3) There's a thought that may offer how to solve the problem.
4) There's finding a way to solve the problem using said thought.
5) New thing is invented based on the thought.
6) Problem is solved.
7) Other ways to apply/utilize/upgrade the new thing are being thought of.

If you try to skip from step 3 to step 7, you'll never get anything done.

The girl set as her goal to bring back the lost magic and formulate a theory around it. More on that later.

She did not yet succeed. This very meeting proves that. It shows that she is still lacking. She didn't achieve her goal. At the same time, she doesn't seem to be 'in a rut' either. She's focused on what her goal is. Once she progresses the magic to a satisfying point, then she will think of how to utilize it. Otherwise, she will think of it if she comes across a problem that can be solved by it.

(...) how has not anyone even entertained the concept that something that follows orders could be used more practically?

This argument about whether or not her ancerstors thought of any use for this is completely nonsensical based on the fact that is a lost magic. If she had the information her ancestors had, then she wouldn't need to research it in the first place.

Meanwhile, all we know is that she researches this and that others think she's weird for it. What on earth made you think there even are others besides her that remotely think about it? For all we know, there may not even be a single person knowing about the existence of that doll besides her, and now these two. It was even clearly said here that if she published her current (still incomplete) research on the topic it would cause serious issues due to basically trampling on the followed beliefs.

 

[finalm]

A court is a court. Judging is judging. While judging is done in a court, a court is not judging.

Before courts, judging was done largely by lords (...)

Okay, but that's exactly why I said that if you find a court presided by a king or feudal lord too different from contemporary ones, a Roman one should satisfy you just fine, as there were few differences aside from the laws they worked with. My point was - this is a much older thing than you stated.

No one would be fine with something smelling absolutely pungently all the time around them. That does not correspond to them knowing what effect it has on health to any relevant level beyond just 'it stinks, I need to vomit!'.

Obviously I cannot tell you exactly what went on in long-dead people's minds, but stink was a prevelant (do remember that domesticated animals were everywhere) thing back then, yet the approach to hygine diffrentiated between human and animal waste - the second was treated pretty much as the local "flavour" (hardly anyone cared to clean up animal doung from the street/road) but the former was a different story. Does this prove that they were aware that human waste was full of disese that could easily jump hosts? No, but it strongly suggests that it was taboo not just because of instinctive revulsion.

Rotting corpses are another thing entirely. Meat is something you eat. Even outside of cannibals that would themselves obviously get sick from eating human meat, humans always observed animals and most animals won't touch rotting meat. Humans also learned after eating rotting meat of animals. If they didn't...humanity would have likely gone extinct so they kind of didn't have an option not to if we're here.

In that case, why bury/burn/use whatever method to dispose of them, especially since it was always done far from population centers (we know of burial sites from the stone age and they never overlapped with places people used to live)? That's not something you can learn from animals.

Again, you are looking through the prism of your knowledge. Concepts that are absolutely obvious to you don't have to be obvious to people that had no contact with knowledge about them. Humans can live with things, without understanding them. Humans used fire long, LONG before understanding it. Heck, I'm sure that many people even in modern times don't actually know what fire is exactly.

There seems to be a misunderstanding, despite my best efforts to avoid it. See, I'm not claiming there was any deeper understanding here. At least, not an accurate one. People come up with all sorts of wacky explanations for stuff they that's currently beyond them, but that does not mean they don't base this on some factual observations. Just take a look at the XIVth century - plague doctors thought that illness spreads through "stagnant air" and even placed pungent herbs in those beaks of theirs to ward it off. That is hillariousy wrong, but it does tell you that they were aware that people can get sick just by being in an area where sickness is found. In general, when you look at history, it is very unwise to assume people were any less bright than we are today, just because they lacked modern science.

The fact that humans had serious outbreaks of sicknesses that were caused and/or compounded by lack of cleanliness is more than enough evidence of that. If they really did know the correlation between the two to what is nowadays considered a 'basic level', there just wouldn't be so many issues caused by lack of it.

That does not hold up, because the same outbreaks can be found in the modern world. Cholera for example, is still prevelant in developing countries and it's not because they don't know it's caused by substandard hygine.

Which you try to deny with your posts.

I don't think you would go far as a scientist.

That's pretty condescending, considering I am one, but I guess you're entitled to your opinion. For my part, I think you'd benefit from reading some actual subject literature before assuming everyone's just extrapolating.

Advancing science requires actually acting, not just thinking. Just thinking is what philosophers do. Yes, many philosophers were also scientists. But 'also' is a key word here.

It's not that philosophers were scientists, it's that the scientific method itself developed from ancient philosophy. But I digress...

I'll tell you this, as a pragmatic person.
1) There's a problem.
2) There's a need to solve the problem.
3) There's a thought that may offer how to solve the problem.
4) There's finding a way to solve the problem using said thought.
5) New thing is invented based on the thought.
6) Problem is solved.
7) Other ways to apply/utilize/upgrade the new thing are being thought of.

If you try to skip from step 3 to step 7, you'll never get anything done.

That is simply not true. Have you any idea how many discoveries were accidental? Products of either unrelated research or just plain stumbled upon, even by people with no formal training. I any case, forgive me but these are just platitudes to me, the actual scientific method is simply this: Hypothesize, gather evidence, test empirically, draw conclusions, back to step 1. You might be suprised, but most of this process is done by people who exclusively do the "thinking not acting" bit, even though it's the experimental researchers that are usually in the public eye, when they confirm a hypothesis drawn up by some schmuck holed up in the basement. So yeah, it's not glorious work, but just try to go without it.

The girl set as her goal to bring back the lost magic and formulate a theory around it. More on that later.

She did not yet succeed. This very meeting proves that. It shows that she is still lacking. She didn't achieve her goal. At the same time, she doesn't seem to be 'in a rut' either. She's focused on what her goal is. Once she progresses the magic to a satisfying point, then she will think of how to utilize it. Otherwise, she will think of it if she comes across a problem that can be solved by it.

Al right... where are you going with this? The next paragraphs have nothing to do with this.

This argument about whether or not her ancerstors thought of any use for this is completely nonsensical based on the fact that is a lost magic. If she had the information her ancestors had, then she wouldn't need to research it in the first place.

But it wasn't lost back then. In fact it was supposed to be more developed than what she has now and yet, the very fact that they didn't really care to preserve it speaks to no one realising it could have a lot of potential. This is my original point - no one's allowed to be insightful, other than the protagonist.

Meanwhile, all we know is that she researches this and that others think she's weird for it. What on earth made you think there even are others besides her that remotely think about it? For all we know, there may not even be a single person knowing about the existence of that doll besides her, and now these two. It was even clearly said here that if she published her current (still incomplete) research on the topic it would cause serious issues due to basically trampling on the followed beliefs.

Do we? She mentioned other noble families are also working on this (El Mentecato and Riafon). Presumably for different reasons (they are known to be interested in anything to do with bloodline tradition, while she's just interested in magic), but that pretty much anwsers your question. Also, her whole family knows about the dolls - since she said she had to get permission to share that the ritual was a fraud and how. Of course it's a secret, even if today her family is viewed favourably by their subjects, no noble would want the public to know his roots come down to con artists, after all. Legitimacy was a big thing in feudal society, next to it everything, even lives were considered cheap.

 

[finalm]

double post