So I'm a Spider, So What? - Vol. 7 Ch. 34.1

[Geraludorolo]

Awesome! I love it. Screw the humans!!

 

[OniBarubary]

Not really a fan of the way that went.

Not that she can't be a murder hobo, but moreso that if the corruption of these heresy abilities is what causes her to lose her morality or sense of right and wrong or whatever than it needs to be more than just assumed because they have bad names. There was very little development in this direction or continual characterization about a loss of morality. Moreso, as someone who was once human, there has been no progressive sense of losing her humanity at all because we're supposed to find her charming and funny and identify with her. So the path to get to the point we've reached now is a fine path to have, it can make for a really interesting story, but much like Overlord it is done without any sort of weight or decent writing so we're just left with an unsatisfied feeling.

This manga is pretty damn good but I really feel like this was a misstep because it wasn't foreshadowed or hinted at in any way; it just happens and we're expected to go along with it and fill in the gaps in writing with supposition or information from a LN.

Also some of you need to chill when others don't particularly enjoy one aspect of a manga they otherwise have liked just fine. Stick your edgy teenage angst back in your big boy pants and discuss things like @Kaarme . I don't agree with everything he said but he very clearly stated why he believe this works and that's respectable.

 

[Muklas]

Spoiler

"why is this spider monster with the edited personality of a evil god completely amoral in regards to the life of randoms that came to attack her" Kumo was never a good person, her original could have solved the whole bloody plot millenia ago if she felt that watching people struggle wasn't more fun.

 

[criver]

@mahtan

If your life is at risk killing the assailants is acceptable.

Killing in self-defence may be acceptable, however she went far and beyond that, this was clearly not self-defence but calculated mass murder in order for her to reap the benefits from it.

Wheter it is for the XP or not doesn't matter.

That's exactly what matters with regards to morality.

@TheStuffedUnicorn

Why is it that people are getting the vapors when a spider is killing humans in a monster den?

Most likely because the 'spider' is actually a human in a spider body.

Getting offended that humans are being killed in a spider isekai?

I don't think it's about getting offended. It's about the fact that there was no explanation how she lost all her human morality, or whether she was a psychopath to begin with. Basically the required exposition is MIA.
The other thing is that some users truly seem to believe that her actions are justified and that she's not a psycho. I believe it's worthwhile to try and persuade them otherwise.

@Kaarme

She's supposed to be corrupt after all the corruption effects placed on her.

So you agree that she's morally corrupt, but you disagree that she's being evil by mass murdering people?

It's perfect mutual understanding, which makes it not evil.

How do you reconcile these two seemingly contradictory notions.
Also you might want to look up the meaning of integrity. Hers is obviously nonexistent.

She didn't intend to kill the first couple of soldiers, she only wanted to make them a bit hurt and scared.

Are you just going to ignore the fact that she knew exactly what she was doing after that, when she proceeded to murder the others intentionally this time around?

No, but she's not a human. She's a giant spider.

Oh, but she is a human, or at least the part that does the thinking is (so for all intents and purposes only her outwards appearance is not human). We are reminded of this time and time again, how she is simply a human in a spider body. So there's no reason for her morals and empathy capacity flying out the window, unless she had no such to begin with.

We do celebrate wartime atrocities.

If 'we' includes only radical extremists, maybe. People in general do not celebrate the mass murders in wars, but rather the end of wars. Why? Because the end of a war brings peace. Unless you want to argue that humans are inherently sadistic and cruel (which is scientifically untrue). It's also pretty cute how you ignored the Geneva convention statement, and misrepresented that one sentence outside of its context.

It feels like not a month goes by without seeing some American (probably) commenting that two atom bombs in Japan wasn't enough.

Don't mistake stupidity and ignorance for evil intent. Also don't generalize the statements of marginalized groups of people to what is commonly accepted. No respected person in academia will ever state something like this on the subject. The only defended arguments for the bombs were to end the war quicker and to avoid soviet influence over Japan. Nobody that doesn't want to risk social suicide would try and argue non anonimously how the bombs were something that the innocent citizens deserved. The simple fact that these are not socially acceptable views for which you would get stigmatized should tell you more than enough about the general consensus on celebrating atrocities. Normal people do not celebrate the holocaust or anything of the sort.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

That is clearly not just my opinion, considering the legality of such actions. Not only are such duels illegal now, but they were illegal even in the not so recent past. And you're missing the elephant in the room here. Our MC's moral standards are supposedly current moral standards, which you cannot reconcile with her actions. So either she was a psycho to begin with, or it's a plot hole.

Don't attack a fricking tank with sticks if you don't believe in yourself.

The humans obviously didn't know the difference in power, as substantiated by them trying to flee after that. She knew very well why they attacked, and knew that it would be wrong to kill them over that as can be seen from her initial reluctance in killing them. Do note when that reluctance changes into enthusiasm - after she sees that she gets a ton of xp off off the unintentional murder. So it's more than obvious she knows what she's doing is wrong and evil, she just decided the xp was more important than their lives, typical psychopathic behaviour.

A duel is fair if both participants feel its fair.

You surely realize this assertion is logically inconsistent, right? Try reading it a few more times and thinking about what it means, and what implications it has.

Objectively speaking the end result doesn't change: Some humans were allowed to live.

Are you seriously asserting that it's the end result that matters? Especially in the context of morality? You surely also believe that "the goal justifies the means" is a moral statement too?

I don't know what you've been smoking if you think spiders are some champions of justice.

Implying that she's just your average spider. Let's ignore her human psyche, right? We're not talking about champions of justice at this point, it's clear psychopathic and evil behaviour.

Just look back at her life in that dungeon in general.

Yes, her previous behaviour is questionable, but you could rationalize it in various ways. After all, killing animals to eat and for self-defence is something acceptable. Killing humans for personal gain, is considered psychologically pathological behaviour on the other hand. And it was made crystal clear that she kills them for the xp. So we went from questionable territory to outright cruelty and psychopathology. And that is very hard to reconcile with her not being evil.

 

[yohane]

it's not everyday you see a spider doing moonwalk

 

[firosahoge]

Wow i just saw an omega wall of text below me. Anyway, she sure is pretty calm about killing all those soldiers. My take is that it's fine, theyre not civilians. Theyre soldiers that walked into a monster's lair and attacked first. If she was the weaker one she wouldnt have been spared. Dont ping me.

 

[Kaarme]

@OniBarubary The corruption from heresy, which we hopefully can assume is not just a fancy chuuni word without any weight, plus the fact she has needed to fight continuously in deadly battles in the dungeon to merely survive, I'd say that's enough to explain her change of heart. In the end humans either need nothing but be told that it's a war, given a gun, and placed in a group to be able to shoot any number of other humans, who had the misfortune of having been done exactly the same, just on the other side of the border. She's a monster herself now, and surely she feels like one already after all the evolutions, eating raw meat, relying on abilities only available to monsters, etc, so, like Rambo said: When you're pushed, killing's as easy as breathing. It's more like she noticed killing humans for survival and development isn't any different from killing other monsters. It's just another lethal fight.

I'm no psycho who thinks nothing of human deaths, but I'm satisfied with the story making no bigger deal of this incident. It makes her appear more of a monster also internally, not only externally. She can walk that road to wherever it takes her. Nothing prevents her from becoming magnanimous later when she has acquired godly power and can afford it no matter what, even if backstabbed by the humans.

@criver After reading your latest post, I finally see the underlying reason why we disagree: You keep thinking there's a human inside the spider carapace, whereas I don't think so. She was reborn a spider. A spider is a spider even if it had human memories. That's where I'm starting from. Her seemingly existing morality is due to those memories, plus her desire to return to the humanity, which is kind of an oxymoron since she was born from a spider egg, so she can't return anywhere. She's a monster, who happens to have some human qualities, not a human who happens to have some monster qualities. That's why it's also a sign of her higher morality to spare some humans, even if it's for her own benefit. A normal spider simply wouldn't do it, period. Of course I could be completely wrong, but this view seems to match my image of the story so far.

 

[Mebravo]

She has the merciless title and feel nothing while killing. Im surprised she not started eating their corpses yet.

 

[supermonkey123]

The true evil here is the manga author for making a high school student get sent to another world as a spider and fight tooth and nail in order to survive a savage world which has taken away her humanity in the law of the wild where it is literally kill or be killed.

That and the twisted readers who read a story about this event.

 

[criver]

@supermonkey123
I don't think she 'lost her humanity' due to being sent there. More like she was probably a latent psycho even before that. Too bad author didn't go into details on that one, however it's an isekai, so the quality is as expected.

 

[Garlyle]

that there are peopled bothered by an isekai protagonist killing people boggles my mind. ESPECIALLY seeing as it was NEVER stated she was a hero, in any sense.

 

[Sternberg]

If you want to see the goody two shoes classic hero go read some Shounen and get out of here

 

[criver]

@Sternberg
I want to see the psychological character development and degradation of her morals. Not just a flick of the finger 'now I'm evil'. Criticism on the basis of weak char development is perfectly valid, even if this is an isekai and this is to be expected.

@Garlyle

I don't think it's about getting offended. It's about the fact that there was no explanation how she lost all her human morality, or whether she was a psychopath to begin with. Basically the required exposition is MIA.
The other thing is that some users truly seem to believe that her actions are justified and that she's not a psycho. I believe it's worthwhile to try and persuade them otherwise.

 

[Kaarme]

@criver I can't keep up with this posting speed... I edited a short answer to your previous post in my previous post, up there.

 

[OniBarubary]

@Kaarme That's a very fair assessment.

 

[criver]

@Kaarme There were no indications that I remember of, that her spider nature affected her way of thinking in any way except for maybe her connection with her spider mother. All her thoughts up to that point have also been consistent with this. And the xp vs human life decision was clearly a calculated decision, so I do not believe that you are correct. She's not acting on instinct.

Also this:

Nothing prevents her from becoming magnanimous later when she has acquired godly power and can afford it no matter what, even if backstabbed by the humans.

is called lack of integrity.
And this is incorrect:

In the end humans either need nothing but be told that it's a war, given a gun, and placed in a group to be able to shoot any number of other humans, who had the misfortune of having been done exactly the same, just on the other side of the border.

The military has an especially hard time making people kill other people, that has been documented. Plenty of people try not to kill even in a war, bomb carriers specifically dropping bombs not at their designated city target, soldiers trying not to hit the enemy. Read some books/papers on that matter, war doesn't automatically make humans beasts.
Also eating raw meat has nothing to do with whether you're a monster.

 

[Trevasta]

Please give us the alt story of other reincarnation 🙏🙏 cant wait 😀😀

 

[Trance11]

ohhhh finally shes soon leaving! I think you guys need to chill with the morality thing. Let's see what happens when she leaves the dungeon. Honestly if this is a long term project there can only be one out come...she must gain some kind of transformation like a certain slime. Unless the outside world is completely different to what we expect and not dominated by a human population there can only be one outcome here...and that's a transformation of some kind to fit into the world in some way.

 

[Sternberg]

@criver

I assume it's all those "taboo" skills she got, plus, like in Overlord, no longer being a human might have thrown her moral compass severely off-north. I mean, honestly I saw it coming what with all the dark stuff she picked.

 

[sylvacoer]

@Sternberg - agreed. She also showed anti-social inclinations as a human, so it's to be expected she'd be pushed into a more extreme variant if no other balancing forces (such as companions) were present.