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Unexpectedly wholesome.
The Girl Who Will Let You Do What You Want
- Thread starter MangaDex
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@criver
Sorry, I'm not seeing your point.... I never said there was no demographic. I said that the Author wasn't forced to write for one. This allows for the Author to develop his or her manga in a way that's comfortable to them; since they're not told by any Editorial department that their target demographic requires X-Y-Z.
Sorry, I'm not seeing your point.... I never said there was no demographic. I said that the Author wasn't forced to write for one. This allows for the Author to develop his or her manga in a way that's comfortable to them; since they're not told by any Editorial department that their target demographic requires X-Y-Z.
@Happily_Grim
The point is that even if he's not forced to target a specific demographic, he's intentionally doing so. It also just so happens that the demographic he targets overlaps with the demographic targeted by isekai. The issue here is that the isekai tropes and basics are leaking into the plot. For one thing the unrealistic interactions and the way things just fall into place with minimal effort.
The point is that even if he's not forced to target a specific demographic, he's intentionally doing so. It also just so happens that the demographic he targets overlaps with the demographic targeted by isekai. The issue here is that the isekai tropes and basics are leaking into the plot. For one thing the unrealistic interactions and the way things just fall into place with minimal effort.
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@MarqFJA87 Couldn't remember where I saw it when I posted. It's from "Short Cuts" by Usamaru Furuya, cut-53.
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@criver
I'm not understanding that point of what you're rambling on about. Did you miss what my original comment was in reference to? It was a simple observational answer to the question of: "Why are so many Twitter Mangas so much better than published mangas?".
At no point was I saying there is no demographic; in addition, at no point did I say there were no tropes, either. The original answer I provided was to give an opinionated answer on boag's original question -- which in itself is simply his opinion and not necessarily any sort of delineated fact. Naturally, he would have a demographic in mind when creating his manga. I've already said as much in my first reply to you. It's quite literally impossible not to have a demographic. Furthermore, you proceed to talk about "issues here", when I've never even mentioned anything regarding plot or characters to begin with. So what are you talking about? As of presently I haven't come to any conclusion on whether I believe this particular manga is good or not, yet. Since it's only been 3-chapters and forming my opinion that early would be silly.
I'm not trying to be rude or anything. I just sincerely don't know what point you're trying to make in regards to the one-off comment I made in reply to boag.
I'm not understanding that point of what you're rambling on about. Did you miss what my original comment was in reference to? It was a simple observational answer to the question of: "Why are so many Twitter Mangas so much better than published mangas?".
At no point was I saying there is no demographic; in addition, at no point did I say there were no tropes, either. The original answer I provided was to give an opinionated answer on boag's original question -- which in itself is simply his opinion and not necessarily any sort of delineated fact. Naturally, he would have a demographic in mind when creating his manga. I've already said as much in my first reply to you. It's quite literally impossible not to have a demographic. Furthermore, you proceed to talk about "issues here", when I've never even mentioned anything regarding plot or characters to begin with. So what are you talking about? As of presently I haven't come to any conclusion on whether I believe this particular manga is good or not, yet. Since it's only been 3-chapters and forming my opinion that early would be silly.
I'm not trying to be rude or anything. I just sincerely don't know what point you're trying to make in regards to the one-off comment I made in reply to boag.
@Happily_Grim
You initial reply was providing reasons why the manga is 'better' than published manga. I disagree with your reasons, since even if the author is not forced to target a specific demographic or incorporate particular tropes, he does it, so the end result is the same. Basically I don't think that the reasons you provided help make the manga 'better'.
It is also possible to not have a very specific but rather general demographic in mind when creating a work (which is a big issue with manga, originality, and tropes).
Also:
I think I clarified everything. If you plan to post a wall of text as a reply, however, I suggest we take this private to avoid polluting the thread.
You initial reply was providing reasons why the manga is 'better' than published manga. I disagree with your reasons, since even if the author is not forced to target a specific demographic or incorporate particular tropes, he does it, so the end result is the same. Basically I don't think that the reasons you provided help make the manga 'better'.
It is also possible to not have a very specific but rather general demographic in mind when creating a work (which is a big issue with manga, originality, and tropes).
Also:
If you don't want be rude then don't be rude, it's very simple.
I think I clarified everything. If you plan to post a wall of text as a reply, however, I suggest we take this private to avoid polluting the thread.
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@criver
How is the end result the same? That actually makes no sense.
If he's able to choose his own demographic instead of being forced into one publisher X believes will sell, it obviously has a reasonably higher chance to be different from the mainstream.
And for some people something being different can be enough to make something better. Or more interesting, probably.
But that's simply a matter of wording, as well as where your priorities lie.
I mean sure, something being published privately isn't automatically going to make something better. Obviously.
But if that was your actual point you're basically just arguing semantics.
How is the end result the same? That actually makes no sense.
If he's able to choose his own demographic instead of being forced into one publisher X believes will sell, it obviously has a reasonably higher chance to be different from the mainstream.
And for some people something being different can be enough to make something better. Or more interesting, probably.
But that's simply a matter of wording, as well as where your priorities lie.
I mean sure, something being published privately isn't automatically going to make something better. Obviously.
But if that was your actual point you're basically just arguing semantics.
@Carnage
How is the end result the same? It's written literally in the same sentence:
How is the end result the same? It's written literally in the same sentence:
Your point would have made sense if the manga was actually different. On the contrary, while it is not bottom of the barrel it is fairly generic and suffers from the same set of issues that wish-fulfillment and escapism manga are plagued with. The target demography definitely doesn't help with that.
I agree with you - for me this is obvious, doesn't seem like it is for the people I replied to though, that's why I went out of my way to reply to them in the first place. To be precise the argument was that it is good because the author is not forced to target a specific demography. Which is ridiculous, considering it has the very same issues compared to such manga.
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@criver
For example: If reader A uses points 1, 2 and 3 as basis for their evaluation while you use 4, 5 and 6 as the basis for yours, then that means that both of you can still very much be right. After all, you're looking at different things. It is simply a matter of subjectivity.
And if points 1, 2 and 3 were caused by the author not being forcefully directed by a publisher, then the explanation: "No Editorial department trying to force the Author to target specific demographic, or incorporate particular tropes to boost popularity. Just freedom." - may as well be accurate.
And remember, they never actually defined what their points of reference are.
And even if they did, you'd still be neglecting to account for individual reader experience. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And that's a subjective claim. It entirely depends on what points of reference you're actually using.
For example: If reader A uses points 1, 2 and 3 as basis for their evaluation while you use 4, 5 and 6 as the basis for yours, then that means that both of you can still very much be right. After all, you're looking at different things. It is simply a matter of subjectivity.
And if points 1, 2 and 3 were caused by the author not being forcefully directed by a publisher, then the explanation: "No Editorial department trying to force the Author to target specific demographic, or incorporate particular tropes to boost popularity. Just freedom." - may as well be accurate.
And remember, they never actually defined what their points of reference are.
And even if they did, you'd still be neglecting to account for individual reader experience. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@Carnage
Not everything is subjective. I won't do a breakdown of the manga just to make an example out of it, but I think you know very well which parts of it qualify as wish-fulfillment and escapism, regardless of your point of reference.
Also the quote from Happily_Grim you used is not accurate, since you took it out of its context as a reply to the initial comment.
Not everything is subjective. I won't do a breakdown of the manga just to make an example out of it, but I think you know very well which parts of it qualify as wish-fulfillment and escapism, regardless of your point of reference.
Also the quote from Happily_Grim you used is not accurate, since you took it out of its context as a reply to the initial comment.
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@criver
Your likes and dislikes are subjective. There is just no way around that.
Nor was it being wish-fulfillment/escapism or not ever a point of contention.
It was simply never a relevant factor within the context of this exchange.
Moreover, actually using that as a point of criticism on a manga side is kinda...
Not to mention what kind of other recreational media you probably consume.
And how does that take it out of context? It doesn't actually change the meaning.
Your likes and dislikes are subjective. There is just no way around that.
Nor was it being wish-fulfillment/escapism or not ever a point of contention.
It was simply never a relevant factor within the context of this exchange.
Moreover, actually using that as a point of criticism on a manga side is kinda...
Not to mention what kind of other recreational media you probably consume.
And how does that take it out of context? It doesn't actually change the meaning.
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@Carnage
Didn't read the whole exchange yet but To point cliches or narratives that are present in a story is not subjective as it can be objectively proved by prsenting the narrative stereotypes that correspond to the claim. In this case the claim is that this manga has content that correspond to wish-fufillment and escapism especific mangas, wich is observable true.
While you are correct that liking or not something is entirely subjective the object that cause the dislike of like are not. (the felling is subjective but the existence of some aspect of the story is not)
Didn't read the whole exchange yet but To point cliches or narratives that are present in a story is not subjective as it can be objectively proved by prsenting the narrative stereotypes that correspond to the claim. In this case the claim is that this manga has content that correspond to wish-fufillment and escapism especific mangas, wich is observable true.
While you are correct that liking or not something is entirely subjective the object that cause the dislike of like are not. (the felling is subjective but the existence of some aspect of the story is not)
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@Carnage
"For example: If reader A uses points 1, 2 and 3 as basis for their evaluation while you use 4, 5 and 6 as the basis for yours, then that means that both of you can still very much be right. After all, you're looking at different things. It is simply a matter of subjectivity."
This is not a subjectivity.
It would be subjectivity is reader A and B used 1, 2 and 3 as basis to diferent evaluations. Basicly subjective is when an opnion onsomething is personal and other people can reach diferent opnions from the same argument.
Exemple would be: reader A: "Manga B is good because the romance is pretty well written and the characters are well etabilished" but read B says: "Manga B has well written characters but the romance is too over the top and that makes it hard to read at times".
"For example: If reader A uses points 1, 2 and 3 as basis for their evaluation while you use 4, 5 and 6 as the basis for yours, then that means that both of you can still very much be right. After all, you're looking at different things. It is simply a matter of subjectivity."
This is not a subjectivity.
It would be subjectivity is reader A and B used 1, 2 and 3 as basis to diferent evaluations. Basicly subjective is when an opnion onsomething is personal and other people can reach diferent opnions from the same argument.
Exemple would be: reader A: "Manga B is good because the romance is pretty well written and the characters are well etabilished" but read B says: "Manga B has well written characters but the romance is too over the top and that makes it hard to read at times".
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@criver
I would have to say you are mistaken in this: "Your point would have made sense if the manga was actually different. On the contrary, while it is not bottom of the barrel it is fairly generic and suffers from the same set of issues that wish-fulfillment and escapism manga are plagued with. The target demography definitely doesn't help with that."
Carnage didn't said this was diferent he said that being able to choose your own demographic gives more liberty and higher chances to make something diferent, wich by itself would be good enough for some people.
While this manga is somewhat cliche it is different from the norm in that the female lead is enabling the male lead instead of being a foil or just ebing there, for exemple. A small detail but already a diference.
I would have to say you are mistaken in this: "Your point would have made sense if the manga was actually different. On the contrary, while it is not bottom of the barrel it is fairly generic and suffers from the same set of issues that wish-fulfillment and escapism manga are plagued with. The target demography definitely doesn't help with that."
Carnage didn't said this was diferent he said that being able to choose your own demographic gives more liberty and higher chances to make something diferent, wich by itself would be good enough for some people.
While this manga is somewhat cliche it is different from the norm in that the female lead is enabling the male lead instead of being a foil or just ebing there, for exemple. A small detail but already a diference.
