@TheDragonLord
"By legal standards of "fault", if I followed your logic, then if I know someone made a mistake on bridge design and failed to report it, and the bridge later collapses (catastrophic failure) and kills people, the person wouldn't be liable for gross criminal negligence."
now I don't know about Laws since A) I ain't a lawyer and B) I'm not using Laws as the basis of my argument. I'm using Responsibility=/= fault.
if that person you are talking about has a supervisor or a person responsible for checking all the safety regulations. The fault is on the person who made the mistake and didn't say anything, but the responsibility and punishment go to the one who was supposed to check the work and make sure it was up to standard. This is why the CEO and Manager get fire when the employees fail the quota for X reason.
"It's not the fault of the hypothetical D&D party that they are "scared" and want to be cautious (that is in their natures), just as it wasn't the "fault" of Jun for being scared. However, we are responsible for our own actions and a reasonable portion of the results of those actions. If we aren't, then people who abandon their posts & watch as others needlessly die have no fault, and humanity as a whole has no collective responsibility to one another. We can pollute or destroy without concern that our actions leave us "at fault" because we would by definition have none."
I agree at that they aren't at fault part, but fault=/=Responsability, if I leave my post unguarded I have failed at my responsibility and I am at fault for all the consequences but if I leave somebody else (like Jun did) then the one who is at fault is that somebody else, but I was the one who left their responsibility/Duty and now I have to pay the price of guilt, it's not my fault that he messed up but I am still guilty of leaving my job to somebody else, so to speak
"Now, perhaps, punishing the King & all of those complicit in the murder of Jun wasn't unreasonable if the whole society was at such a parasitic level of bad that they made the Demon King look neutral at worst by comparison."
No, I think the king and the whole fucking royal/noble court all deserve the Axe, they killed gods angel and their savior just to save face, fuck them and their lives. The peasants too, but I draw the line on just the capital and the people who killed Jun, you know those who did wrong, not the whole world as Marcus wants.
"Unless death is beyond her reach, then the goddess's failure (read: fault) could reasonably lie in her failure to provide Marcus with another viable option.
Her failure to do so would be enormous, about as much as the responsibility that Jun has, if not more so, because she is in a position to lessen the pain of Marcus directly as well as solve a problem that is her ultimate responsibility.
Free will only gets you so far in terms of a "hands off" policy. Jun's powers (and that of the others) are direct intervention by the goddess (why she couldn't join the party herself and directly interfere is left unclear; if it isn't apathy, and instead is a fear of unbalancing the order of things—unduly screwing with people's lives, that would be one thing; ergo, she herself is an overpowered, yet overly cautious hero—but, if she simply lack empathy enough to use her powers to help mortals when they are at their limits, even if it would be as acting as a shoulder to cry on—would Jun have failed as easily if the goddess availed herself more to the needs of Jun emotionally and gave her the guidance she needed, as opposed to sticking her hands in her pockets when Jun was all alone?) to their collective world, and the fact that she gave Jun that power without following up, shows this goddess to be rather negligent.
"
ok this whole section is mostly speculation on why the goddess can't/won't intervene, I really don't care the why of the goddess, the fact is she just can't, and since we can't read the goddesses mind, any and all guesswork of her personality and motives are just theories and headcanons. I don't want to enter the realm of subjectivity or theory crafting as much as possible so I say the goddess can not and will not act for reason X, hence why her only viable move, from what the story has told us, was to call Jun.
Jun is the only one who can defeat the demon king, there are no if or buts about it, she is the hero and only option until the story tells us otherwise, as in they tell us that the goddess did have another option and chose not to do it. But until then I will be in the camp of if the goddess directly intervened she will destroy the universe or something worst would happen by just her mear presence.
"Reasonably, she should at least have been more emotionally available or given her something to help her along the way more than simply power."
she literally gave her Plot armor, she was told by the goddess herself that she would be strong enough to kill him with no problems, it's like telling a 16-year-old, press this button and you win. Jun was just scared which is understandable and I can't blame her for it. But she still accepted the responsibility and chose to push it to somebody else. Hence the whole mess. Also, they provided her emotional support in the form of her helpers and Marcus, I ain't saying it was the goddess who did it, but the fact is she had emotional and physical support in the story, but instead of using it to grow stronger she just pushed it all to the support.
"It's effectively dumping responsibilities onto her without comfort or support. You don't simply give a 16-year old a nuke and say, "go figure it out" unless the is, quite literally, no other choice, and you die with MAJOR regrets. Doing otherwise is to burden the crap out lf that person."
they tell us that to transfer a person they need various conditions to be met by that person, Jun is the only choice from what the story/goddess is telling us. So yeah Jun is the only choice. Now is it perfect? of course not, she's just a 16-year-old girl I can't blame her for being scared, but she choose to do it and she chooses to push it onto somebody else.
"But, the DM is also supposed to balance the game and not make things unnecessarily challenging unless the players "ask for it." Of course, if the players wipe, they can ALWAYS start the mission over again."
oh, the DM should not make it too challenging?
like how the goddess gave Jun the power to kill the demon king and even the option of transferring it to somebody else and letting them do all the work?
from what the story is saying the goddess gave Jun the power to finish this, Jun decided not only to transfer this power but actually stay behind from fear, again not blaming her for it she is only 16, but even the actions of a 16-year-old have consequences and this story is her consequences, should she feel guilty for it, oh yes she should cause all of this could have been avoided if she had just gone to kill the demon king by her hand or with Marcus doing the deed. But she didn't, she choose to stay behind.
"If reincarnation with memories intact was really an option for Jun in case that she failed, then one would think that the goddess would mention that. "Yeah, while I can bring you back from the dead, if you do happen to die, I can reincarnate you with your memories intact. Basically, Groundhog's Day it.""
I don't know if the goddess is reincarnating her or if it's a quirk of their world, like how if you curse the world it will curse you back, I think it was the rules of the world but I can't remember. But even if it's the goddesses doing I can't say why she wouldn't mention it since I ain't a mind reader.
TLDR(Damn this was a long ass comment); I believe that this whole mess is Jun's responsibility, not her fault but she is guilty of negligence, she chooses to be the one to do it, she could have said no to the goddess but she didn't. She chooses to give Marcus the power, effectively pushing her duty and responsibility to a third party. She chooses to stay behind waiting for Marcus to return instead of following him to the demon king and making sure the deed was done, effectively she failed as a supervisor for the job.
the Goddess told her explicitly, you will be safe and are the only option for the job, she would even reward her with a wish, like forgetting absolutely everything if she was too traumatized.
The demon king can only and will only be killed by Jun's hands.
Edit:
also yes the goddess has responsibility, her responsibility is to get Jun to do her job, since, from what the story has told us, Jun is the only one who can do it.
Thanks
