Watashitachi wa Moto Joshi desu - Vol. 2 Ch. 10

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I don't understand the reason people opposing it. Why does it matter to you that gender identity is real or not? That's other people's lives, you don't get to decide what's right or valid for them.

It's not like their decisions will affect you somehow, and you're telling me you're not transphobic for thinking you have the right to decide how they feel.
 
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The questions that i still have are basically:
Is this manga main aim to be antitrans?
Is mom's opinion author's opinion? Or is it plot device to force MC to explore their new body.
Even if mom's opinions echo the opinions of the author, does it make him/her antitrans? Or just insensitive.
If the main character decides to not go through the surgery, does it make this manga antitrans?

I fail to see why that is pertinent to know.

I'm not going to go full death of the author here (because it does tend to go out into postmodernism at times), but I will argue that an author's intentions are far less important and meaningful than people put credit to them being.

Some media cases in point: Something that's relevant again now is "Starship Troopers" due to Helldivers 2's popularity. Everyone knows Edward Neumeier and Paul Verhoeven (especially him) set out to portray what they consider fascism to be in a negative lens. Only... to not succeed at that whatsoever and nearly 30 years later having people cope with throwing around the phrase "media literacy" to try and insinuate that people that actually like the film unironically and have no problem with the setting simply "didn't get it" and aren't literate to the media's narrative. When, that's not the case. They "got" it, they just didn't find the message that was implied to resonate with that.

This is far from an isolated case, either. This is an entire plot point of "The Producers" and how their intention to fail, on purpose, is instead what leads to their success. Or how some war movies that are viewed by some as anti-war, like "Saving Private Ryan," are at odds with that supposed intention when you see men gallantly sacrificing themselves.

Does it change the plot if the mangaka is pro-trans? No. Similarly, does it change the plot if the mangaka is anti-trans? Also no. And... I mean... having a character say something of course does not mean that the author endorses it. Many stories have villains that are SUPPOSED to be villains and the author writes them being evil or criminal because that's the intention. Characters can exist as foils. Even if the author came out to be anti-trans and agreed with the mother's sentiment personally... It wouldn't change anything. In fact, it would serve to demonstrate how capable they are detaching their own ego from their work and writing from a neutral or unbiased position. I'd argue what matters is if the story and characters are compelling. And I'd argue here that they are (that, admittedly, can change, I've seen plenty of mangas that started out strong and ABSOLUTELY shat the bed).

As to whether if the main character decides to not accept surgery and that being anti-trans... That's the most puzzling question you bring up... because there's actual trans people that identify as trans that do not go through surgery transition. Are trans people that don't do that, therefore, anti-trans? ...Of course not. It's their personal choice. And there's nothing wrong or contradictory about a trans person making that decision.
 
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I don't understand the reason people opposing it. Why does it matter to you that gender identity is real or not? That's other people's lives, you don't get to decide what's right or valid for them.

It's not like their decisions will affect you somehow, and you're telling me you're not transphobic for thinking you have the right to decide how they feel.
You say this decision doesn't affect other but the presence of biological male in woman sports says otherwise. Or how about that one time an actual man went into the woman changing room in Planet Fitness claiming to identify as a woman? And the worst part is, the actual woman that reported it is the one who got her membership revoked as if she's the one in wrong for wanting privacy and safety. How about the Tickle vs Giggle case? A biological male (which isn't supposed to be related to someone self identity) suing a woman for creating an app for biological male.

So tell me again how their "self identity" doesn't affect anyone else. And shout-out to @ErikTheRed , @Andigo and @BobTheSkrull . Here's another comment you can react as you seethe in anger lol. Especially you Bob. Outed yourself as a misogynist and got so angry you blamed me for it :lul:

Edit: sorry I forgot about you @ArcadeAcedia . Don't blame me, you never presented any points like a mature adult would lol.
 
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So tell me again how their "self identity" doesn't affect anyone else.
It doesn't. You might find this surprising, but there are pre-existing privacy laws that protect you without needing to obsess over someone's gentials.

Don't be a TERF.
 
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It doesn't. You might find this surprising, but there are pre-existing privacy laws that protect you without needing to obsess over someone's gentials.

Don't be a TERF.
Explain this. How is women using the changing room being protected from a clear male being there? And I can give you more example if you want. One of those include transwoman (which are biologically male) literally masturbating in a woman toilet. C'mon. Defend that please

Also, you calling me terfs does nothing lol. Do you think people really care about that slur?

Edit: fuck it I'm sharing that video anyway since none of you want to have a honest conversation anyway. Here. Guess what happened to a woman that shared these on Twitter to expose him. She's called a terfs. @Playerbase why don't you reply to this as well since you seems to think that male "self identity" which include masturbating in public spaces for woman won't affect anyone else. But let's be honest, both of you won't reply to this because you two doesn't want to confront the truth. Cmon, dumb react to all my other comments like the rest of you weirdos in this comment are doing.
 
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You thinking it's a slur says more than anything else.
You're only focusing on that timy part of my comment says more than anything else lmao :lul: . So pathetic man. Next time just dumb react on my comment. It'll make you look less stupid

Also mind telling me why the woman who exposed the masturbating man in the woman toilet was called a terfs?
 
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why don't you reply to this as well since you seems to think that male "self identity" which include masturbating in public spaces for woman won't affect anyone else
That's one person being stupid, it has nothing to do with self identity (By the way, I'm too lazy to read that shit). That person could've done the same thing even if they didn't identify as a woman. If a Chinese person beat you up, would you think all chinese people are violent? Come on, it's not that hard.
 
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That's one person being stupid, it has nothing to do with self identity (By the way, I'm too lazy to read that shit). That person could've done the same thing even if they didn't identify as a woman. If a Chinese person beat you up, would you think all chinese people are violent? Come on, it's not that hard.
But that person "self identity as a woman" was why he was allowed into the woman toilet in the first place. People like you think he's a woman simply because he identity as one. As a result, the privacy of women using that toilet has been compromised. Remember, you told us that someone personal decision to identify as a woman wouldn't affect anyone else. Looks like it does in this case. And again, the woman that exposed him on Twitter is the one being vilified. Tell me the logic behind that please.

And your Chinese example. We have a clear definition of a Chinese people. Beating people up had nothing to do with being Chinese. But that case is different. Masturbating in a woman toilet is how that perverted man perceives being woman is. That's his "self identity as a woman". And you couldn't call him stupid because according to you, he's a woman no matter how degrading that is.
 
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I am with the mom, she's right but also she should spend more time with her family, Rinko needs her mom :c
 
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Go back to
But that person "self identity as a woman" was why he was allowed into the woman toilet in the first place. People like you think he's a woman simply because he identity as one. As a result, the privacy of women using that toilet has been compromised. Remember, you told us that someone personal decision to identify as a woman wouldn't affect anyone else. Looks like it does in this case. And again, the woman that exposed him on Twitter is the one being vilified. Tell me the logic behind that please.

And your Chinese example. We have a clear definition of a Chinese people. Beating people up had nothing to do with being Chinese. But that case is different. Masturbating in a woman toilet is how that perverted man perceives being woman is. That's his "self identity as a woman". And you couldn't call him stupid because according to you, he's a woman no matter how degrading that is.
find a person who actually do this irl, oh nvm u cant, cause u just made that shit up in your head
 
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I think its main aim is to make money :nyoron:
Do you really think that the main aim of storytellers is to make money? what's next, animators being animators for money?
I don't understand the reason people opposing it. Why does it matter to you that gender identity is real or not? That's other people's lives, you don't get to decide what's right or valid for them.

It's not like their decisions will affect you somehow, and you're telling me you're not transphobic for thinking you have the right to decide how they feel.
Tbh i use this quote just as a pretense to collect my thoughts.
From my understanding, the problem is polarization of the subject that media outlets use to generate outrage, and many ppl fall for this, from both sides. Another thing is, that people are stressed by things they don't understand and that society will make their lives harder if they make a mistake, also from both sides. And it ends in very unhinged discussions that serve no one, and make everybody angry.
Another problem is, that becoming a trans person is a decision best made when you are a kid (at least for MtF). And kids.. well kids tend to be stupid (or confused and depressed due to bad family or problems with their peers). Many people had escapist thoughts about being another gender, due to the impression that it would be an easier life. (due to patriarchy, or wanting to be desired) and in retrospection are satisfied with their identity. Thinking that some kid or their kid would "harm" their body due to a trend or desperation to fit in within current society, makes them anxious, because many people don't trust their kids, even if sometimes for good reason.
TERFs feel threatened by transwoman, not only because of sexual assault, i think it's just a facade. i think It's more about an identity and lack of kinship with transwoman. A female body is way more problematic than one of a male. It's weaker, period takes almost 20-30% of month, the fear of pregnancy makes social interactions more complicated. For a woman that identifies womanhood with a struggle, transwoman is like non-disabled person entering an Olympiad for People with Disabilities.
And transwoman will have different experience from cis person, that's why there is a rift between queer and cis communities. Social groups exist mostly from a sense of kinship, an immigrant will always be an immigrant in the minds of locals. An aristocrat even if poor will always be an aristocrat in the minds of common people. And while it doesn't mean there will be no acceptance, because our other experiences or interests might be similar, barriers will always exist.

I remember my first experience with a trans person, a few years before it became mainstream topic it is today, I've thought it's an artistic man and I referred to her as a man which made her cringe. Later I've learned that she is she and, well, It was a new experience to me and i didn't mean to make anybody feel bad. And on the other hand, asking for pronouns to anybody that seems androgynous is out of the question, as many people would get offended that i even consider them to me manly/femine.
My childhood friend was a girl with an enormous complex about her appearance, due to her height and bony build. She was often mistaken for a boy, which made her miserable.
I think people shouldn't take offense in labels, being called woman or man, as there is nothing wrong with being either. But of course it's not that easy, gender from very young age is something programmed onto us, and closely interconnected with being attractive and being attracted to, to the point that even homosexual people can be confused who they are attracted to, because of this programming. Both trans and non-trans people take an offense in being misgendered.
and well, i dunno, i think i dislike the existence of genders. It's just another barrier that helps no one.
 
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This was a rollercoaster. Last chapter, I thought her mom was a bitch, but she turned out to be quite okay. Super blunt, but she wants what is best for her child.

As to why MC doesn't want to go through it for herself, idk. It's probably expensive, but I doubt that they are lacking money, if her mom can go back to Japan for just 1 day. She might not want the surgery? Or maybe she feels like it wouldn't be the same as before, so why bother? Idk, it could be many things.

I hope her now handsome senpai gets a happy ending. Her (or would it be better to say his?) situation is pretty crappy. That mom isn't a good mom.
 
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If the decision is so far in the air then puberty blocking imo could be used to delay any irreversible changes. I hope this will get mentioned and considered, as the story seems to have hormonal therapy as a very time intensive decision while it could easily be a vessel for having time to make a more calm call for further action
 
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Yup, understand the mother's position and the desire to not rush it, even tho any hrt would start with hormone blocking for quite some time before actually taking harder meds

JUST TAKE THE GIRL TO A DAMM PSYCHIATRIST AND LET SOMEONE COMPETENT HANDLE IT.

Gender dysphoria is a bitch, hope she sorts everything out
Brother she was a girl fes days ago... what kind of psychiayrist she actually needs??!!!
 
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If it's about your own identity that you're comfortable with, why does Rinko need to undergo the surgery in order to become a woman again? Couldn't she be a woman with a male biological body?

Not to mention the term "identity that someone is comfortable with" is very very broad and doesn't help specify a woman in anyway whatsoever. What if someone identity of a woman is a degrading one? Does that mean that idea is valid or acceptable? For example, @BobTheSkrull here believe only people that sexually excite him are woman. Those that fial to do that aren't. What happens then?
I mean, what would you like Rinko or even a real-life person with gender dysphoria to do? Just crossdressing if that makes them feel better while not claiming to be a woman or is even that not good?
In this case it's not clear if Rinko has dysphoria or would have it with further masculinization but as someone that grew up as a woman it may be better for her mental health to prevent further masculinization even if it doesn't actually make her a woman at all.
People debate a lot about the "identity" itself but I'm not sure what that means in practice, like if the trans-identity people lost, would people with gender dysphoria be allowed to crossdress and take hormones if they want to or would they have to "act" like their sex despite whether or not you are a man or a woman only being a matter of biology?
 
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She's not though? She's all for Rinko transitioning, but for her own sake, not for the sake of someone else.
She was a girl her entire life... d we really need more proofs?
I'm on the mom's side on this one. She's just basically telling the currently impulsive teenager to think twice and thrice before doing something that can permanently change the course of their whole life.
It's not like she's completely opposed to it, just really think about it. Specially when being preyed on by predatory "professional help" that just sees your body as a money tree to trim easy cash out off for the rest of your life.
She was a girl all her life, it is totally normal to want to go back
 

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