Watashitachi wa Moto Joshi desu - Vol. 2 Ch. 11

[Sonaldo]

Nonbinary means outside of the gender binary.

What does that mean exactly? You say gender binary, that means there's a clear indicator of whether someone is woman/man. And someone that's non-binary sits between these indicators. So what are those indicators?

Estrogen is a hormone related to women. By taking estrogen, her body will develop along the path that matches her gender identity. Google exists, you know.

Yes I know what it is but why does she needs to take it if you're saying she needs to learn about non-binary people? Like does taking it a must when learning about non-binary people?

 

[Lame_Security]

Is simple English too hard for you?

Your "simple" English are too short to the point it has several ways to read that completely change what your point.

 

[immy]

Some surgery doesn't do that. So again, why kind of surgeries are you talking about in that first comment?

What surgery doesn't involve some sort of cutting implement? Either with physical or energetic blade.

 

[NinjaGoemon]

So funny man.

Aren't you the TERF from last chapter?

 

[Sonaldo]

Your "simple" English are too short to the point it has several ways to read that completely change what your point.

So it's too hard for you. Just say that bro

 

[Sonaldo]

What surgery doesn't involve some sort of cutting implement? Either with physical or energetic blade.

Endoscopy?

 

[Sonaldo]

Aren't you the TERF from last chapter?

Really? Using that in the first move? Weak lol. So saying the truth means transphobic and makes you a terfs? Lol, lmao even.

 

[Barro27]

?????
When I said they "deal" I meant "they deal with the exact shit you're talking about"
There are plenty of people who voluntarily don't undergo vaginoplasty but live as women. It is one aspect of socialization in Japan. It's not the end of the world to not be able to participate in public bathing when all other aspects of a social life are open to you.

Not the end of the world, still far more relevant in Japan than in the West.

Like yeah, it's unfortunate that she's forced into a situation where she has to decide between fitting in and comfort, but a lot of people don't get that choice in the first place just because of the way they're born.

Not sure what that means.

I'm not saying she shouldn't consider the risks of vaginoplasty, I'm saying fear of it shouldn't be the reason she decides to live as a man

So you are saying that she should consider the risks but not potentially decide that they outweight the benefits if she concludes so.

when the option of living as a woman with a penis is one that is frequently chosen in real life even in Japan.

"Frequently"

 

[Barro27]

What surgery doesn't involve some sort of cutting implement? Either with physical or energetic blade.

Closing wounds is surgery. You use a needle, sometimes not even that.

EDIT : just read what that exchange originates from. You shouldn't scare people away from any surgery, but you should inform as much as possible. If when you show them the procedure (here in the manga she wasn't shown the risks per se yet) and they are scared despite knowing the benefits, might be that the procedure is not that beneficial.
You can show a video of a cesarean section to a pregnant woman who might need it, odds are she won't answer "you know what? Actually let the kid die i don't want that". Same with an open heart surgery and someone who will die if they don't get it.

What you shouldn't do is exagerate the risks and/or underplay the benefits and not build trust with your patient. Conversely, exagerating benefits and underplaying risk is not something that's acceptable either.

 

[Lame_Security]

I can't give my own definition. That's the problem dumbo. You, I or anyone else can't.


Your definition is wrong.

If that's the case then how can you decide my definition is wrong?

After some time thinking I realized you dodged my question with pedantics about word meaning so I ask you again; give me an example of surgery that doesn't involve freaky shit like cutting your flesh.

 

[spectralSpices]

What does that mean exactly? You say gender binary, that means there's a clear indicator of whether someone is woman/man. And someone that's non-binary sits between these indicators. So what are those indicators?

Yes I know what it is but why does she needs to take it if you're saying she needs to learn about non-binary people? Like does taking it a must when learning about non-binary people?

It isn't a requirement, but she has such a rigid conception of gender that it's causing her strife. She wants to be more feminine, so estrogen is what she should take.
And, like I said, google exists. Use it, look up resources written by trans and nonbinary people. Or, you know, keep sealioning on a manga forum.

 

[immy]

Closing wounds is surgery. You use a needle, sometimes not even that.

EDIT : just read what that exchange originates from. You shouldn't scare people away from any surgery, but you should inform as much as possible. If when you show them the procedure (here in the manga she wasn't shown the risks per se yet) and they are scared despite knowing the benefits, might be that the procedure is not that beneficial.
You can show a video of a cesarean section to a pregnant woman who might need it, odds are she won't answer "you know what? Actually let the kid die i don't want that". Same with an open heart surgery and someone who will die if they don't get it.

What you shouldn't do is exagerate the risks and/or underplay the benefits and not build trust with your patient. Conversely, exagerating benefits and underplaying risk is not something that's acceptable either.

I probably should've worded original post better.
I was less about people who want to inform you from good faith position are more about annoying people on internet who do some variation of "haha! Don't you know how gross and icky that(SRS/grs) is" to be assholes.

 

[Sonaldo]

If that's the case then how can you decide my definition is wrong?

Because it's different from the actual definition

After some time thinking I realized you dodged my question with pedantics about word meaning so I ask you again; give me an example of surgery that doesn't involve freaky shit like cutting your flesh.

"You could say the same to any surgery. You're basically cutting open parts of your body under sterilized (hopefully) environment in order to fix/do something with it."

Your original comment literally made no mention of the word freaky or weird. Instead it has this wrong definition of surgery and that's why I'm replying to it in the first place lol.

 

[Sonaldo]

It isn't a requirement, but she has such a rigid conception of gender that it's causing her strife.

And doing something with long term effects is the solution to this? Does the word therapy no exist to you?

She wants to be more feminine, so estrogen is what she should take.

Or maybe she should just accept that she's not feminine anymore through therapy? Like that's not an option?

And, like I said, google exists. Use it, look up resources written by trans and nonbinary people. Or, you know, keep sealioning on a manga forum.

I did and none gave a straight answer lol. Like literally. Zero. Null. Kinda like what you're doing now. "Look it up" bro I'm asking you because I'm looking it up. That's no sealioning dumbo. You doesn't know what that word means.
I'm literally just asking what does it mean. In extra details since saying "a non-binary is someone that's neither man or woman" is too broad. So the next logical step should be asking, what is a man/woman? Which is what I'm asking you lmao 🤣. This is the usual fucking script. Next you'll syart calling me names before ignoring or blocking me.

Just say you doesn't know what you're talking about either because that shit is a made up term made by people that wants to feel special and oppressed lol. It pays to be honest you know?

 

[Sonaldo]

What you shouldn't do is exagerate the risks and/or underplay the benefits and not build trust with your patient. Conversely, exagerating benefits and underplaying risk is not something that's acceptable either.

Exactly. These people think the description in this manga is too much when it's not. Heck, it's too tame for what it actually is. There's a reason the term "rot pockets" exist and why r/neovaginahorror is banned. That shit is quite literally an open wound. No surgery needed you to open up the site of incision daily to prevent it from closing up.

The same thing from last chapter is happening again. They doesn't like the truth.

 

[Kirin-kun]

I made the mistake of googling the possible problems with bottom surgery and I think you need to be REALLY motivated to go through it. And you have to take care of it forever, because lack of care can lead to death.

So, I wouldn't push a minor into it without serious considerations. As the author says, SRS is life-threatening and you have to deal with this choice for the rest of your life.

I'm not going to say they shouldn't do it, but I'm on the mother's side here. Do it for yourself, only if it's unbearable to not do it, be informed of all the consequences and challenges you're going to face. Especially true for a minor. And be aware that while you'll be a woman in external appearance, as you always have been in your feelings, your body will still be fundamentally the same. You can't change your chromosomes.

But I hear that for some people, they couldn't bear to live without it. So, if they have to...

Again, I'm not sure why the author didn't mention puberty blockers (I should probably look at the previous chapters more closely, because it was MTL up to 6), maybe because it was not in line with the plot they want, but that's probably what Rinko should have done.

 

[CinderSquall]

The wildest part in this comment thread is how people think someone would opt out of life saving surgery just because "it looks freaky".

 

[Kirin-kun]

The wildest part in this comment thread is how people think someone would opt out of life saving surgery just because "it looks freaky".

Whether it's life saving or not is not up to you, or anyone else, to decide, but the concerned person.

Pressuring them into doing it is as unacceptable as preventing them from doing it if they have to.

 

[Yanako]

Or maybe she should just accept that she's not feminine anymore through therapy?

Why should she take estrogen?

Therapy doesn't seems to have a lot of effectiveness with reducing gender dysphoria and I really doubt that someone who grew up a girl wouldn't have a lot of it after masculinizing further, like Rinko is a trap right now but it's not going to be the case forever. I think that in her case SRS isn't a good idea because she doesn't seem to care that much about having a penis in itself and the gorey nature of the surgery disturbs her more but no hormones anything isn't probably not going to work either.

I understand some of your points but you seem to be against any and all form of gender treatment and at least in this fictional case it's probably a little too absolutist, like being on hormone blockers and hrt isn't healthy but it's still better than Rinko killing herself once they look like a stereotypical dude in a dress when they are 25+ (of course in all cases she would technically still be a dude in a dress but it still makes a difference psychologically and how you are treated).

 

[Sonaldo]

The wildest part in this comment thread is how people think someone would opt out of life saving surgery just because "it looks freaky".

It doesn't just looks freaky lol. So many things can go wrong with SRS. The description given by this manga is frankly pretty tame.