Cheating Men Must Die - Vol. 8 Ch. 155 - This Concubine's Daughter is Venomous -- Not worthy of wearing red
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2020
- Messages
- 160
The rodent is a pretty boy omg this is not the first time I liked a rat 😂 can’t believe I’ll like another rat other than Rakushun
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2020
- Messages
- 222
@Miranox I'm not talking about West. I'm talking about the significance of the Color Red in accordance with the title of this chapter. This as I previously mentioned is not entitled just for bridal wear as white in west 200 years ago.
The significance of the color Red in China dates back to The Zhou Dynasty (1045–221 BC) where red was their dynastic color.
https://www.chinasage.info/symbols/colors.htm
https://g.co/arts/4zudKK3EyW2FP5me6
These are facts not certain stories where you said about colors not matching height.
It looks like you can't connect the symbolism of color red without it being explicitly stated in the chapter, maybe cause cultural differences. In my culture, Red is a holy color associated with Goddesses and I'm more familiar with this association rather than relying on fashion sense from stories. You can associate with fashion sense but I'm going for it's cultural significance in China. Whether emperor literally mocks for her height or not, since title says she ain't worthy of red, the author is definitely going for double meaning.
The significance of the color Red in China dates back to The Zhou Dynasty (1045–221 BC) where red was their dynastic color.
https://www.chinasage.info/symbols/colors.htm
https://g.co/arts/4zudKK3EyW2FP5me6
These are facts not certain stories where you said about colors not matching height.
It looks like you can't connect the symbolism of color red without it being explicitly stated in the chapter, maybe cause cultural differences. In my culture, Red is a holy color associated with Goddesses and I'm more familiar with this association rather than relying on fashion sense from stories. You can associate with fashion sense but I'm going for it's cultural significance in China. Whether emperor literally mocks for her height or not, since title says she ain't worthy of red, the author is definitely going for double meaning.
@Mikasa2077 Read the chapter again. The only topic discussed by this chapter is beauty. That's it, nothing else. The meaning of the title is that the girl is not beautiful enough to wear red. As the emperor insinuates, her clothes outshine her own beauty. That's why the title says she is "not worthy". Everything else is superfluous.
Member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2019
- Messages
- 35
@Miranox @Mikasa2077
Okay so the original argument from Miranox is that what he said about her not being tall enough to wear red not making sense. As both a chinese girl born and raised and a someone who has had formal study in fashion I would like to bring the topic back to this and why I think you're wrong. He does have a point.
In chinese culture although red is not sacred it is considered a celebratory colour. From @Mikasa2077 's perspective of the argument It has the meanings for good luck which directly leads to its use in weddings since they wish luck upon the bride and groom. In the family hierarchy back then there also the point that only the children of the first wife are allowed to wear certain bright colours. Concubine born children actually had stricter dress codes when it came to both colour and patterns that they were allowed to wear. However that point is not actually important here since I believe Su Luxia had taught her surrogate son beauty tips from her more modern perspective.
In modern fashion red is considered glamorous above all else. It is a loud colour. While I can agree that height alone is not enough so say someone does not suit red but a combination of the characteristics of most chinese women back then do not suit red. Ming Yue, even if she was not concubine born, would at the time have been taught to be like most noble ladies and act in a demure and servile manner. That combined with her shorter stature makes it so red outshines her in many ways. To be able to match the colour red you need a lot of pride, confidence, and a charismatic aura. While the author short-handed that in the manga to just say "she's not tall enough"; sure it's an over-simplification of the matter but it's not exactly like they can throw in a paragraph on colour theory and fashion lecture that would take up the entire chapter. Even if this was a web-novel instead of a manga they would still not do that because most readers are not interested in reading all that. So if you just take exactly what he just said literally and have no fashion knowledge to back up your assumptions then yes someone being not-tall-enough to wear a colour makes no sense. But from my perspective I can see logic that the author is trying to get at.
Okay so the original argument from Miranox is that what he said about her not being tall enough to wear red not making sense. As both a chinese girl born and raised and a someone who has had formal study in fashion I would like to bring the topic back to this and why I think you're wrong. He does have a point.
In chinese culture although red is not sacred it is considered a celebratory colour. From @Mikasa2077 's perspective of the argument It has the meanings for good luck which directly leads to its use in weddings since they wish luck upon the bride and groom. In the family hierarchy back then there also the point that only the children of the first wife are allowed to wear certain bright colours. Concubine born children actually had stricter dress codes when it came to both colour and patterns that they were allowed to wear. However that point is not actually important here since I believe Su Luxia had taught her surrogate son beauty tips from her more modern perspective.
In modern fashion red is considered glamorous above all else. It is a loud colour. While I can agree that height alone is not enough so say someone does not suit red but a combination of the characteristics of most chinese women back then do not suit red. Ming Yue, even if she was not concubine born, would at the time have been taught to be like most noble ladies and act in a demure and servile manner. That combined with her shorter stature makes it so red outshines her in many ways. To be able to match the colour red you need a lot of pride, confidence, and a charismatic aura. While the author short-handed that in the manga to just say "she's not tall enough"; sure it's an over-simplification of the matter but it's not exactly like they can throw in a paragraph on colour theory and fashion lecture that would take up the entire chapter. Even if this was a web-novel instead of a manga they would still not do that because most readers are not interested in reading all that. So if you just take exactly what he just said literally and have no fashion knowledge to back up your assumptions then yes someone being not-tall-enough to wear a colour makes no sense. But from my perspective I can see logic that the author is trying to get at.
Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2019
- Messages
- 70
@Mikasa2077 @Miranox Regarding this red clothes debate, I went to reread the chapter in Chinese and the title name is actually 'Not Suited For Red Clothes' rather than 'Not Worthy'. And if I were to literally translate what Yun Ling says without much editing, it'd be 'You're not tall enough, so don't force yourself to wear red. Not only does it not complement your looks, you're actually being squashed by it'. The words in this TL are also correct, but revised to flow better in the English language. As @rahzenshia has already talked about fashion theory and sense (very good explanation too! Thanks!), I won't go further into it.
As for the Chinese history aspect which Mikasa2077 is talking about, other than marriage ceremonies, red used to be a colour worn only by court officials within the top 5 ranks. Your social standing also dictated what colour you could wear. However, from the Sui Dynasty onwards, such colour coding was abolished and people wee allowed to wear any colour (except for yellow, only for the Emperor) they want and female clothing was recorded as being very vibrant and beautiful. Though honestly since this is just a work of fiction within a work of fiction, I doubt the author is paying much attention to time periods. I mean, you've got Luxia and Mingyue's concubine mother wearing Wei style clothes, Mingyue's wearing something that's kept together more like a Japanese kimono than hanfu, the maid's wearing something from the Sui dynasty, and Ziyue's wearing clothes with exposed shoulders which is absolutely scandalous back then for noblewomen but you don't see anyone batting an eye.
As for the Chinese history aspect which Mikasa2077 is talking about, other than marriage ceremonies, red used to be a colour worn only by court officials within the top 5 ranks. Your social standing also dictated what colour you could wear. However, from the Sui Dynasty onwards, such colour coding was abolished and people wee allowed to wear any colour (except for yellow, only for the Emperor) they want and female clothing was recorded as being very vibrant and beautiful. Though honestly since this is just a work of fiction within a work of fiction, I doubt the author is paying much attention to time periods. I mean, you've got Luxia and Mingyue's concubine mother wearing Wei style clothes, Mingyue's wearing something that's kept together more like a Japanese kimono than hanfu, the maid's wearing something from the Sui dynasty, and Ziyue's wearing clothes with exposed shoulders which is absolutely scandalous back then for noblewomen but you don't see anyone batting an eye.
@rahzenshia
If the characters had alluded to this, it would make more sense. However there is no hint of such meaning in this chapter. Everything the emperor mentions is only physical aspect, such as height or eye width. He doesn't mention personality or attitude at all, so you are adding meaning that the author failed to mention.
Member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2019
- Messages
- 35
@Miranox Well if you choose to discard or outright ignore entire parts of the debate then I see no further reason to continue this conversation.
Also, @Koel, correct me if I'm wrong since I have not actually looked at the raws yet but in chinese the word for tall also has multiple meanings. When translated literally to english and being used to describe people it can be translated to "not tall enough" but the other meaning when used in the same context can also allude to someone's position not being high enough. Where the chinese word for 'tall' can also mean 'high'. So in the original chinese text it can be said that the author did indeed allude to him subtly taking a jab at her position of being a concubine's daughter thus either not worthy or not even having the pride to wear such a colour. While the other line of her being squashed by it can both refer to her physical looks and her not being worthy of the responsibilities of the higher position of a first wife's daughter.
Also, @Koel, correct me if I'm wrong since I have not actually looked at the raws yet but in chinese the word for tall also has multiple meanings. When translated literally to english and being used to describe people it can be translated to "not tall enough" but the other meaning when used in the same context can also allude to someone's position not being high enough. Where the chinese word for 'tall' can also mean 'high'. So in the original chinese text it can be said that the author did indeed allude to him subtly taking a jab at her position of being a concubine's daughter thus either not worthy or not even having the pride to wear such a colour. While the other line of her being squashed by it can both refer to her physical looks and her not being worthy of the responsibilities of the higher position of a first wife's daughter.
- Joined
- May 16, 2020
- Messages
- 109
thank you for the updates!!!!!
@rahzenshia You don't address anything I say and then claim I'm the one ignoring the debate? You went off on your own tangent which was unrelated to the main topic. If you can't even address the main topic, then yes you should go away.
Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2019
- Messages
- 70
@rahzenshia
As you can see, there's no double meaning. He's simply talking about the physical and visible aspects.
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2019
- Messages
- 1,680
And Minguye is dancing in Luxia's palm.
