E-Rank Healer

Fed-Kun's army
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
218
Man, been noticing a few of these 'Underappreciated party member is actually really important' stories, which may mean there is a sizable audience (for web novels and light novels) in Japan who feel under appreciated at work using these stories to escape those issues. I suspect that we will see that the 'Hero' and co. weren't quite as successful as they thought they would be next chapter, maybe chapter 7.
 
Contributor
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
3,645
@shanoc5902:

This one in particular seems to have edges of metaphor for how women are treated in modern-day skilled professions (and not just in Japan). Like having no one caring a damn about what you have to say, even if it's important, and if you try to point out a fundamental technical problem then obviously the problem is that you're incompetent, that sort of thing.

I mean, modern-day workplaces don't have implied creepy charm magic, but still.
 
Fed-Kun's army
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
218
@Pokari Apologies for any frustration in advance but, I think that you may be inserting your own beliefs into that. While I won't say that there's no possibility of that being some of the author's intent, I've seen similar stories and manga that also had similar experiences like that with a male protagonist (where their opinion is disregarded because they're new, because they're not experienced, because they're 'dumb', etc.), as well as real life examples of it happening to men for various reasons. It's also very common for people who hold strong opinions and beliefs about certain things (like about the treatment of women in the workplace for example) to insert their own politics into pieces of media from other cultures where those politics aren't to be expected. While I know that there certainly are Japanese environments where being a woman can be the deciding factor in how seriously you're taken, it's a bit akin to the 'god of the gaps' argument to immediately jump to the assumption that just because that could be what the author is going for that's for sure what it is (also given that the Hero's party included at least one other woman who also participated in the mistreatment of our healer, it suggests that it's probably not rooted in sexism in this case). Apologies if this came off a bit aggressive, I've just got a tendency to argue with arguments or reasoning that I think is a bit weak (which is a big part of the reason that I was focusing on the audience that reads these kinds of stories, as to have so many become popular enough for all the adaptations that they're getting at relatively similar periods of time, rather than just one or two, suggests that the readers take something from this setup, whereas these setups can exist even when the author themself has no experience so making assumptions about the author based on their works is a lot shakier). Hope that you have a great day.
 
Contributor
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
3,645
@shanoc5902:

Apologies for any frustration in advance but, I think that you may be inserting your own beliefs into that.

I mean, of course. Any discussion of metaphor (unless the metaphor is carefully spelled out, and the reader is beaten over the head with it like a blunt instrument) will be grounded at least partially in the reader's own experience and perceptions of reality.

If my old English classes serve me well enough, you're saying you dislike the "death of the author" end of the spectrum of literary analysis—wherein the author's original intent is considered less-than-crucial when analyzing a work—even moreso than I myself do. That's fine and I can respect that. (We could quibble over why we do or don't think the author meant a certain thing here, but, given the paucity of evidence in this case, it would likely be unfruitful.)

Although, its bearing on the metaphor at hand aside, I would challenge—if it is in question—the idea that these are just my subjective "beliefs" about how women are treated in the workplace. To the extent that the behavioral sciences can be trusted as reliable science, it is plain and established fact that women's opinions are disregarded compared to men's, on the whole, pretty much everywhere. (That is, I'm not talking especially about Japan here, where everyone knows women are obviously differently in the workplace, but rather in America and Europe, where we more tend to mistakenly believe that we are largely above such bias and prejudice.)
 
Fed-Kun's army
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
218
@Freestyle No, but it seems to have gotten a sudden spike in popularity as of late, which I find interesting.

@Pokari You made the claim that this story seems to be rooted in a certain belief ultimately because this basic premise which has been showing more recent popularity (at least with translators) equally between male and female protagonists as an indication that it fit in with a belief you hold (to clarify since it seems that you misunderstood my intention, my use of the term is not a reference to the veracity of the belief but merely a qualification that is factually true, there's a fair amount of bias and relatively incestuous studies and references in the behavioral sciences on top of science itself not always being correct just as medical science once thought that humor treatment could solve almost any problem, however regardless as to if it is true or not you believe it to be true thus it is a belief, I am just refraining from calling it a fact in addition to it being a belief as the issue can get a lot more complicated than the simple broad statement that it is, which can lead to instances where it wasn't going on being considered to have it going on), while I have no problem with you taking whatever message suits you from any given piece of media death of the author can very easily disrupt conversation and turn it completely useless. Sure you can find support that this is a story about women specifically not being taken seriously, but conversely I could draw comparisons between Genghis Khan and toasters if I was so inclined, this does not mean that toasters are going to start a bunch of wars and try to take over China. Conversely there's also evidence to suggest that this specific story is one that's not being made at the behest of gender (such as the woman in the original party, and that the person who's taking her serious now is a man) but just a story of someone not being taken seriously who happens to be a woman. One of the problems that I typically have with the 'death of the author' in regards to discussions on media is that the media is often fictional, while you can draw conclusions and pull out what you want since the media is not bound by the rules of reality your conclusions can often have no bearing beyond the emotional impact they give you, and if that's the only bearing they don't add much of anything to a discussion if you ask me. Besides, honestly I wasn't even looking at the author precisely, I was musing about the tendency for various Webnovels with a similar premise as this one to get the popularity they do, noting what I presume is resonating with the audience emotionally with this story, "The Vengeful White Cat Lounging on the Dragon King's Lap", "Lv2 kara Cheat datta Moto Yuusha Kouho no Mattari Isekai Life", "The Labyrinth Raids of the Ultimate Tank ~The Tank Possessing a Rare 9,999 Endurance Skill was Expelled from the Hero Party~", "Asobinin wa Kenja ni Tenshoku Dekiru tte Shittemashita? ~ Yuusha Party o Tsuihou Sareta Lv 99", and to a lesser extent I'd say "Seirei Gensouki", "Otomege Sekai wa Mob ni Kibishii Sekai Desu", "The Duchess of the Attic", and several isekais too. Out of all of these the only ones that seem to have gender play a part in it would be "Otomege Sekai wa Mob ni Kibishii Sekai Desu" very overtly and I'd argue "The Duchess of the Attic" as well, (Maybe "Asobinin wa Kenja ni Tenshoku Dekiru tte Shittemashita? ~ Yuusha Party o Tsuihou Sareta Lv 99" too, I haven't read that one personally), this leads me to believe that the gender angle isn't one that's really resonating with the Japanese audience, despite all of these series being successful enough to get manga adaptations.

TL;DR- I was talking about how a lot of series similar to this have gotten popular lately (as shown by them getting adapted to other media forms). Almost none of them talk specifically about gender and if anything seem to have male protagonists more often. While I've got nothing against your own personal take, this is a piece of fiction and so the only truths of the world that you'll be able to get out of it are the ones you yourself see in it, so I disagree with your own personal take. Also I said 'belief' because it is a belief, you can believe in something that is true which makes it a fact and a belief, and you can believe in something that is false making it only a belief, calling it a belief is merely avoiding making a claim of accuracy, not calling it into question.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,202
@IHaveTurnedFujo
As a matter of fact I have an AT-4 which the Army developed for pinpoint strikes against tanks. Though I prefer an M-16A2 as I have consistently Qualified 39/40. Though others may have their preferred weapons, I happily encourage the ABSOLUTE AND COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF GRAN RIGHT THIS VERY MOMENT
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
144
Oh, hey, a nice update of this, it's rather sweet, I am looking forwards to i-
*GRAN*
...
*Sudden Incandescent Rage*
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,202
@djchen we prefer the term "Magic Knight THOT PATROL MERCENARY SERVICE.
"Because everyone is a potential thot. And every body has a price.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top