Hajirau Kimi ga Mitainda - Ch. 65.1 - Shirasawa’s Awakening 3

[Iskarioth]

You wasted hours to come back and say nothing. Take your attempts at trolling to someone else pal.

Actually I'll take the bait one last time. This isn't real life idiot. This is a story and the most important thing is figuring out what the author is trying to convey. And what point have you made other than "blah blah he suck boobies though"?

I wasted hours? Count your post ffs.

So it's a story, that doesn't mean it isn't rooted in reality. Unless ofc the author gives clear indications otherwise I will treat it like it is. Based on the pictures we all 'could' analyze I draw the most likely conclusion and interpret it in way that most broadly reflects our current worlds laws and ethics. Downplay the MC reaction all you want, his behavior is what most places on earth call non-verbal consent. And don't ask me to go back thru every chapter to re-iterate every point I have addressed. You wouldn't either.
I already made the mistake of taking Moneymike seriously and tried to talk to him like an adult, just to be met with cringy ad hominem, fallacies and straw men. The same thing you do now, all you can muster for the most part are insults - I won't spare more brain cells to say things I already wrote twice at least. In this chapter alone, all bases have been covered by other people.

 

[Moneymike1995]

Him having an erection is not an indication of consent man. Majority of men who get raped anally still get hard because it's a biological response to stimulation.

Just think about the situation if the roles were reversed. Imagine a 30 year old male teacher invited his 16 year old female student into his room on a trip. He gives her alcohol in a drink that is specifically made so you can't tell it's alcoholic. Then offers her a place to sleep for the night, and in the middle of that night while she's passed out from the alcohol, decides to try having sex with her. Even if she gives in and goes with it in the moment, anyone with a functioning moral compass can tell that's rape. Also important to note, she spends the following days avoiding contact with that teacher and acting cold around him when she's forced to interact with him.

That's the scenario we've been presented with, and yet because the roles are reversed, people are saying nothing bad happened. Hell, if this same scenario happened but with Honjo and a male teacher, everyone would be crying rape and ntr.

What annoys me is that some people here use the "she kissed back argument" to say it wasn't assault. Yes he did suck her breasts but as people have stated he wasn't in the right head space to fully consent. It's like saying Talia Al Ghul didn't assault Bruce Wayne. It's also skipping over the fact that he never gave visual or verbal consent to them having sex. He didn't take part in the act or even show that he was enjoying it. Instead we see him laying there somewhat lifeless while she's on top of him.

 

[Crackerjack94]

I wasted hours? Count your post ffs.

So it's a story, that doesn't mean it isn't rooted in reality. Unless ofc the author gives clear indications otherwise I will treat it like it is. Based on the pictures we all 'could' analyze I draw the most likely conclusion and interpret it in way that most broadly reflects our current worlds laws and ethics. Downplay the MC reaction all you want, his behavior is what most places on earth call non-verbal consent. And don't ask me to go back thru every chapter to re-iterate every point I have addressed. You wouldn't either.
I already made the mistake of taking Moneymike seriously and tried to talk to him like an adult, just to be met with cringy ad hominem, fallacies and straw men. The same thing you do now, all you can muster for the most part are insults - I won't spare more brain cells to say things I already wrote twice at least. In this chapter alone, all bases have been covered by other people.

I made the mistake of taking you seriously. You're clearly a troll engagement farming on mangadex

 

[Crackerjack94]

I wasted hours? Count your post ffs.

So it's a story, that doesn't mean it isn't rooted in reality. Unless ofc the author gives clear indications otherwise I will treat it like it is. Based on the pictures we all 'could' analyze I draw the most likely conclusion and interpret it in way that most broadly reflects our current worlds laws and ethics. Downplay the MC reaction all you want, his behavior is what most places on earth call non-verbal consent. And don't ask me to go back thru every chapter to re-iterate every point I have addressed. You wouldn't either.
I already made the mistake of taking Moneymike seriously and tried to talk to him like an adult, just to be met with cringy ad hominem, fallacies and straw men. The same thing you do now, all you can muster for the most part are insults - I won't spare more brain cells to say things I already wrote twice at least. In this chapter alone, all bases have been covered by other people.

You haven't addressed any point. All you said was he sucked her breasts so that's consent, which it isn't. If I got someone mildly drunk and the engaged in a sexual act they wouldn't have fully sober than that's me taking advantage of them. If you can't see that than you need help

 

[Iskarioth]

Him having an erection is not an indication of consent man. Majority of men who get raped anally still get hard because it's a biological response to stimulation.

I mentioned that because people suggested he was unconscious, which is flat out untrue. For obvious reasons a man can rape a women that isn't conscious but not vice versa.

Just think about the situation if the roles were reversed. Imagine a 30 year old male teacher invited his 16 year old female student into his room on a trip. He gives her alcohol in a drink that is specifically made so you can't tell it's alcoholic. Then offers her a place to sleep for the night, and in the middle of that night while she's passed out from the alcohol, decides to try having sex with her. Even if she gives in and goes with it in the moment, anyone with a functioning moral compass can tell that's rape. Also important to note, she spends the following days avoiding contact with that teacher and acting cold around him when she's forced to interact with him.

Men and women are different. A boy that age can beat up 30y older women, even drunk. That's one of the reasons why perception is different. He was absolutely capable of fighting her off. He had no reason to be intimidated or fear her either.
I'm not saying what she did was good, I'm saying it was not illegal/ rape. Furthermore he wasn't passed out, that's framing to make it look different than it was. As people mentioned numerous times, that was a light mix drink, it's not a rape drug. He wasn't out of it, he was groggy when woken abruptly and then realized what was happening. To say he was barely conscious is an excessive stretch both based on the drink in question and the depiction of the scene.
Same goes for the reaction the next day. Show me any legal system outside of California where regret the next day invalidates consent that was displayed in that moment. Which is insane because that means no one is save. It's a standard no one can live up to.

anyone with a functioning moral compass can tell that's rape

sorry, but that's a manipulative fallacy to make your opinion to appear more than it is.

That's the scenario we've been presented with, and yet because the roles are reversed, people are saying nothing bad happened. Hell, if this same scenario happened but with Honjo and a male teacher, everyone would be crying rape and ntr.

False equivalency. Did she have SM play, petting etc with said teacher and show clear sexual attraction like the MC did to the female teacher in previous chapters? Is the teacher smaller than her and easily pushed off without repercussions?

Anyways we can agree if it is just about morality. I really don't want to go down the same insult ridden waste of time again, not a third time. Though you have been civil so far, so no personal attack intended.

 

[Iskarioth]

You haven't addressed any point. All you said was he sucked her breasts so that's consent, which it isn't. If I got someone mildly drunk and the engaged in a sexual act they wouldn't have fully sober than that's me taking advantage of them. If you can't see that than you need help

Again, I am not going back thru every chapter and pull up my quotes. Don't make false statements if you can't be bothered to look at what I wrote.
Please google non-verbal consent too. I don't know where you are from but if your standard was applied world wide, would you have anyone arrested that goes to a party and has sex with s.o/ while intoxicated? Where does that actually happen. How do you even prove someone wouldn't do that fully sober? Taking advantage of someone in many or should I say most cases isn't a crime. People do it every day, alcohol or no. You don't have to like it but your standard cannot be enforce, nor is it being enforced. Clearly you arguing about how you think it should be while I am arguing about how it currently is. Please understand that I'm not saying "yay teacher, you go girl", I'm simply giving a rational assessment of what the situation would be in the real world.

If you can't see that than you need help

And a fallacy again...

 

[Crackerjack94]

I mentioned that because people suggested he was unconscious, which is flat out untrue. For obvious reasons a men can rape a women that isn't conscious but vice versa.


Men and women are different. A boy that age can beat up 30y older women, even drunk. That's one of the reasons why perception is different. He was absolutely capable of fighting her off. He had no reason to be intimidated or fear her either.
I'm not saying what she did was good, I'm saying it was not illegal/ rape. Furthermore he wasn't passed out, that's framing to make it look different than it was. As people mentioned numerous times, that was a light mix drink, it's not a rape drug. He wasn't out of it, he was groggy when woken abruptly and then realized what was happening. To say he was barely conscious is an excessive stretch both based on the drink in question and the depiction of the scene.
Same goes for the reaction the next day. Show me any legal system outside of California where regret the next day invalidates consent that was displayed in that moment. Which is insane because that means no one is save. It's a standard no one can live up to.

sorry, but that's a manipulative fallacy to make your opinion to appear more than it is.

False equivalency. Did she have SM play, petting etc with said teacher and show clear sexual attraction like the MC did to the female teacher in previous chapters? Is the teacher smaller than her and easily pushed off without repercussions?

Anyways we can agree if it is just about morality. I really don't want to go down the same insult ridden waste of time again, not a third time. Though you have been civil so far, so no personal attack intended.

Um guys can still get erect unconscious. The fact that you didn't know that is sad

 

[Crackerjack94]

I mentioned that because people suggested he was unconscious, which is flat out untrue. For obvious reasons a men can rape a women that isn't conscious but vice versa.


Men and women are different. A boy that age can beat up 30y older women, even drunk. That's one of the reasons why perception is different. He was absolutely capable of fighting her off. He had no reason to be intimidated or fear her either.
I'm not saying what she did was good, I'm saying it was not illegal/ rape. Furthermore he wasn't passed out, that's framing to make it look different than it was. As people mentioned numerous times, that was a light mix drink, it's not a rape drug. He wasn't out of it, he was groggy when woken abruptly and then realized what was happening. To say he was barely conscious is an excessive stretch both based on the drink in question and the depiction of the scene.
Same goes for the reaction the next day. Show me any legal system outside of California where regret the next day invalidates consent that was displayed in that moment. Which is insane because that means no one is save. It's a standard no one can live up to.

sorry, but that's a manipulative fallacy to make your opinion to appear more than it is.

False equivalency. Did she have SM play, petting etc with said teacher and show clear sexual attraction like the MC did to the female teacher in previous chapters? Is the teacher smaller than her and easily pushed off without repercussions?

Anyways we can agree if it is just about morality. I really don't want to go down the same insult ridden waste of time again, not a third time. Though you have been civil so far, so no personal attack intended.

Your whole belief is dripping with misogyny. You believe a man can't be assaulted by a woman because he's a man. It's delusional and kinda sad to read

 

[Iskarioth]

Your whole belief is dripping with misogyny. You believe a man can't be assaulted by a woman because he's a man. It's delusional and kinda sad to read

Yeah that's what I thought. I wasted my time again making in depth points. An out of place generalization and putting words in mouth. That's all you where capable off. Now we at least have a clear example who is addressing points on the level and who has to retreat into ad hominem again. Spare me more of your responses please.

 

[Crackerjack94]

Again, I am not going back thru every chapter and pull up my quotes. Don't make false statements if you can't be bothered to look at what I wrote.
Please google non-verbal consent too. I don't know where you are from but if your standard was applied world wide, would you have anyone arrested that goes to a party and has sex with s.o/ while intoxicated? Where does that actually happen. How do you even prove someone wouldn't do that fully sober? Taking advantage of someone in many or should I say most cases isn't a crime. People do it every day, alcohol or no. You don't have to like it but your standard cannot be enforce, nor is it being enforced. Clearly you arguing about how you think it should be while I am arguing about how it currently is. Please understand that I'm not saying "yay teacher, you go girl", I'm simply giving a rational assessment of what the situation would be in the real world.


And a fallacy again...

Please google consent. People can give and take away consent. Just because I kissed someone doesn't mean I give them consent to have sex.

Also you must either live a very sheltered life because yes people do get arrested for going to parties and having sex with someone that is drunk. It literally happens all the time.

And no you're not giving any "rational assessments" you are literally giving your opinion on how you see things and I'm giving mine. Stop talking and acting like you're above people. It makes you sound insecure. You're whole mindset is very ignorant and lacking of awareness of how the world works, but that's not what the topic is about. Again in the context of the story your points fall apart based off the fallout of the sex scene. Based on what you're saying why would he be mad if he was a willing participant in the sexual act? Why wouldn't he be happy and constantly thinking about her? Why instead does he hate her and distance himself and act cold around her?

 

[Crackerjack94]

Yeah that's what I thought. I wasted my time again making in depth points. An out of place generalization and putting words in mouth. That's all you where capable off. Now we at least have a clear example who is addressing points on the level and who has to retreat into ad hominem again. Spare me more of your responses please.

You literally said a boy can beat up a woman simply because he's male and she's female. A boy can't be afraid of a woman. It's so ignorant it hurts reading it

 

[Crackerjack94]

Yeah that's what I thought. I wasted my time again making in depth points. An out of place generalization and putting words in mouth. That's all you where capable off. Now we at least have a clear example who is addressing points on the level and who has to retreat into ad hominem again. Spare me more of your responses please.

Funny thing is I've told you to shut up long ago. Don't whine now when I've asked you not to respond to me anymore long ago

 

[Iskarioth]

Please google consent. People can give and take away consent. Just because I kissed someone doesn't mean I give them consent to have sex.

Also you must either live a very sheltered life because yes people do get arrested for going to parties and having sex with someone that is drunk. It literally happens all the time.

And did he revoke his consent when it happened? He gave consent and that's all we saw. So why mention that you can rescind it? To manipulate?

And no, given the huge amount of sexual encounters like these it's statistically very are, and even rarer that you can prove it was rape. Most of the time there's violence or drugs involved when that happens. Non of that applies here. But keep moving that goal post. He wasn't drunk enough for that to matter legally

And no you're not giving any "rational assessments" you are literally giving your opinion on how you see things and I'm giving mine. Stop talking and acting like you're above people. It makes you sound insecure. You're whole mindset is very ignorant and lacking of awareness of how the world works, but that's not what the topic is about. Again in the context of the story your points fall apart based off the fallout of the sex scene. Based on what you're saying why would he be mad if he was a willing participant in the sexual act? Why wouldn't he be happy and constantly thinking about her? Why instead does he hate her and distance himself and act cold around her?

And yes, that's commonly known as an opinion. All post are. Furthermore he was shown to be regretful and even mention the breaking of his fathers rule. Are implying said rule is " don't get raped"? Where's the hate exactly depicted? Or is that in your mind? Regretting it explains everything just as easily. Especially since he probably feels guilty since he also has feelings for Honjo. It's a reasonable explanation, with much fewer assumptions than yours.

You literally said a boy can beat up a woman simply because he's male and she's female. A boy can't be afraid of a woman. It's so ignorant it hurts reading it

Yeah, that's supported by most studies. On average men are stronger and bigger than women. Are we really debating this as well? And I said " he had no reason to be afraid" Details matter, I assume you deliberatly misrepresented my statement here. or can you give me a reason why he would let her fck him if he really didn't want to? Why not say no, why not push her off? What reason for fear is there?

Funny thing is I've told you to shut up long ago. Don't whine now when I've asked you not to respond to me anymore long ago

And how is what you are doing any different? Please shut up, here I said it - so are you gonna do it?

 

[Crackerjack94]

And no, given the huge amount of sexual encounters like these it's statistically very are, and even rarer that you can prove it was rape. Most of the time there's violence or drugs involved when that happens. Non of that applies here. But keep moving that goal post. He wasn't drunk enough for that to matter legally


And yes, that's commonly known as an opinion. All post are. Furthermore he was shown to be regretful and even mention the breaking of his fathers rule. Are implying said rule is " don't get raped"? Where's the hate exactly depicted? Or is that in your mind? Regretting it explains everything just as easily. Especially since he probably feels guilty since he also has feelings for Honjo. It's a reasonable explanation, with much fewer assumptions than yours.


Yeah, that's supported by most studies. On average men are stronger and bigger than women. Are we really debating this as well? And I said " he had no reason to be afraid" Details matter, I assume you deliberatly misrepresented my statement here. or can you give me a reason why he would let her fck him if he really didn't want to? Why not say no, why not push her off? What reason for fear is there?


And how is what you are doing any different? Please shut up, here I said it - so are you gonna do it?

OK I see you're just eager to have the last word so this will be my final comment so I'll end it here and stop your bait engagement farming

1) He was not moving while they had sex. That's the whole point. He could've revoke or give his consent to that part. Hence why he was mad the following day.
2) he was drunk enough to say he felt numb and he was angry and cold to sensei the following day after what happened. That tells us if he was in the right state of mind he probably wouldn't have wanted to do it
3) You talk about using real world logic, yet when it comes to here you toss it out the window. So him mentioning his dad's rule only means "don't get raped" to me? When did anyone ever say that? You do know many victims blame themselves for assault. Sorta like what you're doing right now. "He could've been assaulted he's a guy". That very thought is probably in his head too. Also the hate is depicted on page. His cold and distant attitude and yelling at her.
4) fuck your bs that men can't be afraid of their female abusers.
5)Again shut the fuck up

 

[Crackerjack94]

And did he revoke his consent when it happened? He gave consent and that's all we saw. So why mention that you can rescind it? To manipulate?

And no, given the huge amount of sexual encounters like these it's statistically very are, and even rarer that you can prove it was rape. Most of the time there's violence or drugs involved when that happens. Non of that applies here. But keep moving that goal post. He wasn't drunk enough for that to matter legally


And yes, that's commonly known as an opinion. All post are. Furthermore he was shown to be regretful and even mention the breaking of his fathers rule. Are implying said rule is " don't get raped"? Where's the hate exactly depicted? Or is that in your mind? Regretting it explains everything just as easily. Especially since he probably feels guilty since he also has feelings for Honjo. It's a reasonable explanation, with much fewer assumptions than yours.


Yeah, that's supported by most studies. On average men are stronger and bigger than women. Are we really debating this as well? And I said " he had no reason to be afraid" Details matter, I assume you deliberatly misrepresented my statement here. or can you give me a reason why he would let her fck him if he really didn't want to? Why not say no, why not push her off? What reason for fear is there?


And how is what you are doing any different? Please shut up, here I said it - so are you gonna do it?

Now since you clearly are both insecure and enjoy sucking yourself off I'll let you say one last stupid thing to me. Just don't tag me so I don't have to see it please.

 

[Moneymike1995]

And did he revoke his consent when it happened? He gave consent and that's all we saw. So why mention that you can rescind it? To manipulate?

And no, given the huge amount of sexual encounters like these it's statistically very are, and even rarer that you can prove it was rape. Most of the time there's violence or drugs involved when that happens. Non of that applies here. But keep moving that goal post. He wasn't drunk enough for that to matter legally


And yes, that's commonly known as an opinion. All post are. Furthermore he was shown to be regretful and even mention the breaking of his fathers rule. Are implying said rule is " don't get raped"? Where's the hate exactly depicted? Or is that in your mind? Regretting it explains everything just as easily. Especially since he probably feels guilty since he also has feelings for Honjo. It's a reasonable explanation, with much fewer assumptions than yours.


Yeah, that's supported by most studies. On average men are stronger and bigger than women. Are we really debating this as well? And I said " he had no reason to be afraid" Details matter, I assume you deliberatly misrepresented my statement here. or can you give me a reason why he would let her fck him if he really didn't want to? Why not say no, why not push her off? What reason for fear is there?


And how is what you are doing any different? Please shut up, here I said it - so are you gonna do it?

This reeks of someone not knowing how to interact with real people

 

[Iskarioth]

OK I see you're just eager to have the last word so this will be my final comment so I'll end it here and stop your bait engagement farming

1) He was not moving while they had sex. That's the whole point. He could've revoke or give his consent to that part. Hence why he was mad the following day.
2) he was drunk enough to say he felt numb and he was angry and cold to sensei the following day after what happened. That tells us if he was in the right state of mind he probably wouldn't have wanted to do it
3) You talk about using real world logic, yet when it comes to here you toss it out the window. So him mentioning his dad's rule only means "don't get raped" to me? When did anyone ever say that? You do know many victims blame themselves for assault. Sorta like what you're doing right now. "He could've been assaulted he's a guy". That very thought is probably in his head too. Also the hate is depicted on page. His cold and distant attitude and yelling at her.
4) fuck your bs that men can't be afraid of their female abusers.
5)Again shut the fuck up

1) Again, framing. He was conscious and reacting. He doesn't have to violently hump her so show willingness.
2) Yeah are evading the questions again. All of them. You are making huge assumptions instead. He said nothing that indicates anger, over regret. He wasn't dead hung over in the drawnings either nor would he be given the type of alcohol. Keep one evading that one.
3) I passed no blame, so again a mute point. You have no explanation for that statement of the MC. Everything else can be called awkwardness born out of regret.
4) So you got no reasons to give why he would be nor why he didn't say no. got it.

You cannot hold a reasonable conversation to save your life and to use your (false) accusation: you are so insecure, you fall back on insults the moment a contradiction appears in your train of argumentation

 

[Crackerjack94]

1) Again, framing. He was conscious and reacting. He doesn't have to violently hump her so show willingness.
2) Yeah are evading the questions again. All of them. You are making huge assumptions instead. He said nothing that indicates anger, over regret. He wasn't dead hung over in the drawnings either nor would he be given the type of alcohol. Keep one evading that one.
3) I passed no blame, so again a mute point. You have no explanation for that statement of the MC. Everything else can be called awkwardness born out of regret.
4) So you got no reasons to give why he would be nor why he didn't say no. got it.

You cannot hold a reasonable conversation to save your life and to use your (false) accusation: you are so insecure, you fall back on insults the moment a contradiction appears in your train of argumentation

Didn't I say don't tag me if you want to continue your stupidity. I'm not sure if you see me as some easy engagement bait farmer but I'm done. If you want to keep talking stop tagging me and just talk to yourself.

I will say I love the fact that you're saying the author removed sensei from the story, painted her as the bad one, and had MC be cold and distant to her because of regret. Makes sense to me. I also guess you just happened to fall asleep while fapping and misses how MC wasn't even responsive while they were having sex, which is a very different way the author drew this scene compared to every other scene.

 

[Iskarioth]

What other scenes would that be? So far we got only one true sex scene with a common fade out. Let me call your bluff then: Chapter 58.2 Pages 1,2,3, he reacts actively and engages her / in sexual acts. Page 7 he's clearly aroused and still reacting. Page 11, he spasms and ejaculates, so he's still participating. He falls asleep AFTER they are done.

More waste of my time, but at least we know now who puts in the vain effort despite better judgement.

 

[Crackerjack94]

Wow you really can't help sucking your own dick huh?

Also I thought it was obvious that I meant every other ecchi scene. And we just saying natural body reactions means participating. You watch too much hentai kid.