Harapeko Oyako to Motokare Yanushi - Ch. 2

[BuyVelomobiles]

I also suggest therapy mate. Give it a shot and you might get past your woman hate and even get laid.

Thanks random internet guy. I'll be sure not to listen to this asinine "advice".

I hope you can get help for your hatred of men.

 

[mdqp]

Obvious exaggerations aside, even by being very charitable the story is skipping too much. This isn't a mystery plot, and the various questions people are bringing up need an answer because the premise itself require those answers.

That is to say, if she has parents to live with, the story can't go this way. This is also true if she has friends that can host her, if she has enough money she can pay for a cheap hostel until this is over, or if she can move to another place (all options which are WAY above the list before "contacting this dude I used to date 17 years ago and I haven't contacted since"). These are all questions the audience AND the protagonist will naturally have, yet we aren't given the answers. We aren't even given a good "well, we used to be so close, so of course we'd help each other even after all this time", in fact, everything implies the 17 years have almost turned them into strangers (he asks her if she is here to rob him, and to explain herself before he calls the police, even if he does so casually).

Just because your place is being rebuilt (whatever that means, the story doesn't seem to elaborate on the why and how long, or even if she was renting), it doesn't mean you have a good excuse to invade his BACKYARD. Not only she didn't send him a message beforehand, she was sneaking in, instead of ringing the doorbell, and then said that she wanted to see how he was doing (which honestly sounds like a lie, although I can't even fathom why she'd be lying), casually brush off the 17 years of radio silence in the process (unless there is a problem with the translation, he sounds like he would have been fine with keeping contacts, but she didn't), before finally asking him if he can let her live there, daughter in tow.

Bonus points for not bringing up the possibility to pay him back in any way, not reprimending the daughter who's rude (multiple times) to the guy who is willing to give them a roof, and generally lacking any decency or courtesy as someone who, first thing after meeting for the first time in 17 years with an ex, immediately asks a significant favour.

It seriously looks like she is just taking advantage of him, but since it doesn't seem to be the author's intention, we are left to conclude that the plot is poorly written.

 

[deathmailrock]

Man is so lonely he would take in someone he has had 0 contact in for 17 years because of her smile and presence while she openly just wants to mooch off of him. What a sad man he must be.

Well, it doesn't help that she's not really a bad person. He knows she isn't bad so he lets it go....

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

then said that she wanted to see how he was doing (which honestly sounds like a lie, although I can't even fathom why she'd be lying)

It's an obvious lie. Women are indirect. This is exactly the kind of pointless, obviously-bullshit pretense a woman would come up with to do this. And you'd buy it because you can't imagine any reason she'd lie to you about it, so you give her the benefit of the doubt, just like you personally are here. She planned to pressure him to stay, and since she can't just say "I'm here to pressure you into letting me mooch off you", she says she's there to "check up on him"... with all her clothes... and her daughter... entirely unannounced... by trespassing his backyard.

Also she's doing the typical toxic woman thing where she does something wrong, then shows up like nothing happened without so much as an apology; as if pretending there's no problem suddenly makes it go away.

Well, it doesn't help that she's not really a bad person. He knows she isn't bad so he lets it go....

You have a weird idea of what constitutes a "bad person".

 

[assholescans]

I'm beginning to think reading the discussions of this manga is going to be as fun as reading the manga itself.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

I'm beginning to think reading the discussions of this manga is going to be as fun as reading the manga itself.

You should see how it went for Cheeky Gyaru! A shocking minority of people don't know what rape is.

 

[TheBlackGamer]

I did out of curiosity of what you're talking about. I found "a person that you know but who is not a close friend" which is exactly their situation. I'm guessing you found something different.

Not much I can say to your 2nd part. Its your subjective opinion. I prefer stories with some intrigue. I don't like it when they're front-loaded with a bunch of exposition explaining everything. I see that as lazy writing

One last time dude since it seems you can't comprehend dating someone and small interactions with someone.

Someone you dated is someone past the friendship tier, past the close friendship tier, and into the boyfriend/girlfriend tier. It's someone you share intimate moments that you don't normally do with people below this tier. Whether that be kissing, handholding, hugging, having sex. It's basically intimate closeness that you share with someone you deem very special or special enough to do these things with.

An acquaintance is someone not even in the friendship tier. They are at the 2nd lowest tier with the lowest being stranger. This is someone you're vaguely aware of maybe do something together because of the setting you're in together but not much after that. It's as brief as interactions go without being a complete stranger.

Now with both explanations and how the definition I described of what an acquaintance is. How the fuck is an ex girlfriend an old acquaintance? They aren't even in the same tier. The story literally says ex girlfriend not old acquaintance. Meaning the relationship they had was much deeper than acquaintance. The dictionary definition and this story call you out on your stupidity. How can you not see it is beyond me.


When did I ever say a story needs to front load everything? All I said is a good story needs to lay out everything so the reader can be invested where it goes. That basically means start the story premise, answer all the basic questions one might have so it isn't anchoring the story, tell the story. Nothing I said even made mention of front loading. That's you assuming. A story can do what I said and have intrigue nobody said there can't be mystery but you must answer basic questions a premise would have.

tl;dr you need a story to write every detail out so you don't assume the worst possible conclusions you can even when the story presents in a manner that should make you assume the reasons are valid even when not outright presented to you.

I'm not going to waste more time writing explanations on why the things you say are stupid. You clearly can't understand them or refuse to acknowledge them. Also maybe google the definition of vitriol since you don't know what it means.

Actually you need to write a story that answers basic questions so people don't go asking why the story didn't explain this basic question any normal person would have. Only the most braindead would make excuses and say dumb shit like "wait for the story to explain this issue the premise has later when it should've explained it on chapter 1" because they're defending something any sane human being would have questions about and not simp for some ex and her rude daughter. You're literally complaining I'm taking the most "negative" interpretation while not realizing you're doing the exact same thing but in the most charitable interpretation. It's quite astonishing. I'm not even taking "negative" interpretations I'm just asking questions because there are so many holes I can ask these questions.

"Waste my time writing explanations"
You mean waste your time writing bullshit excuses because the author did a terrible job setting up this premise. And it's not that I didn't acknowledge what you said it's just that what you said is so stupid that only the most naive fool could believe it to be a decent explanation when the story made no effort to even give hint to that "explanation".

Also please dude. If you have to constantly focus on how I say something instead of what I'm saying I think you need to start using your brain and not your feelings. I'm not mad in the slightest this is just how I communicate. Sorry it bothers you so much.

 

[VirtuousVillein]

I'm beginning to think reading the discussions of this manga is going to be as fun as reading the manga itself.

I wasn't going to follow until I read the comment section, if every chapter get arguments like this going, I'm there.

 

[OliveOilOilOil]

I wasn't going to follow until I read the comment section, if every chapter get arguments like this going, I'm there.

Welcome to the dumpster fire. There’s a lot other “popular” titles to follow too

 

[assholescans]

Welcome to the dumpster fire. There’s a lot other “popular” titles to follow too

I recommend reading Karami Zakari even though it's finished, it has a beautiful rating of 3.63.

 

[VirtuousVillein]

I recommend reading Karami Zakari even though it's finished, it has a beautiful rating of 3.63.

DEAR GOD

I didn't even think it was possible to get that low of a rating here, everything is so skewed that I assume anything below a 7.5 is questionable at best. Welp, off I go lads, wish me luck!

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

DEAR GOD

I didn't even think it was possible to get that low of a rating here, everything is so skewed that I assume anything below a 7.5 is questionable at best. Welp, off I go lads, wish me luck!

Don't do it! Read Cheeky Gyaru instead!

 

[assholescans]

DEAR GOD

I didn't even think it was possible to get that low of a rating here, everything is so skewed that I assume anything below a 7.5 is questionable at best. Welp, off I go lads, wish me luck!

It's actually really popular, and the nsfw doujin it's based on is one of the most popular doujins ever made.
But there's a reason it's got a rating of 3.63 even though it's popular. I think the most non-spoilerish way of saying it, is that it's probably not too popular by the usual crowd at mangadex. It's the fifth lowest rating on mangadex
It's actually a pretty decent manga if you're not provoked too much by the content.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

It's actually a pretty decent manga if you're not provoked too much by the content.

Isn't that basically everything ever? "It's good if you don't think it's bad".

 

[assholescans]

Isn't that basically everything ever? "It's good if you don't think it's bad".

Yes, my point is that the rating isn't really because it's being objectively bad, it's because people here don't like the content.
This manga here too is probably also going to be rating bombed to hell, but that doesn't mean it's bad.
Honestly ratings are worthless because of review bombing, and I guess bot manipulation like on MAL doesn't help either. I never really care about ratings and just read what seems appealing to me. You're way better off making an opinion by yourself.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Yes, my point is that the rating isn't really because it's being objectively bad, it's because people here don't like the content.

I don't know that media has any "objective goodness" independent of how much people like it.

 

[assholescans]

I don't know that media has any "objective goodness" independent of how much people like it.

I think that something well made is objectively good. There's a lot of bad manga that's bad because they're drawn bad, bad design, has bad comedic timing, bad paneling, bad overall. A manga that's drawn well, good design, has good comedic timing, good paneling, and is good quality overall but has content that is not popular with the crowd, is objectively good in my opinion.
Though these manga are popular though. It's just that the ones that don't like it voice their opinions the loudest. It's probably more reasonable looking at pure popularity for content that's controversial in my opinion. People wouldn't be that invested in a work that's objectively bad. Hell most objectively bad manga usually never get scanlated or officially translated (except if it's isekai). There's probably less than 90 percent of manga that are translated, which sort of fits with Sturgeon's law.

 

[OliveOilOilOil]

I recommend reading Karami Zakari even though it's finished, it has a beautiful rating of 3.63.

Not hard to see why, Clearly an inferior knock off exposition of the original doujin and even that is not the best written one. That genre is quite competitive in the circles though.

Just like when certain one shots look fantastic and people demand more but is one best left at being a one shot and should never be serialized in the first place.

 

[assholescans]

Not hard to see why, Clearly an inferior knock off exposition of the original.

Just like when certain one shots look fantastic and people demand more but is one best left at being a one shot and should never be serialized in the first place.

I think it's fairly decent. It more or less follows the same story but it expands a bit and makes it a little more sfw and palatable.
The original is like three chapters and an epilogue I think.

Also oneshots are usually written to catch quickly, while a serialization need to keep people on for longer. Like that hero wants to experience love manga, even though the serialization has the same characters, plot, and setting, you can't really write it the same way as a serialization as a oneshot. So I think it's more the execution.

It's sort of similar to how most manga are planned for two-three volumes, and if they sell well and get popular, they're expanded. But if the content hasn't been well planned, they have a tendency to lose what made them interesting to begin with. You see this a lot of times really, manga that continues beyond their planned volumes usually lose their steam fast. It's honestly more the rule than the exception.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

I think that something well made is objectively good. There's a lot of bad manga that's bad because they're drawn bad, bad design, has bad comedic timing, bad paneling, bad overall. A manga that's drawn well, good design, has good comedic timing, good paneling, and is good quality overall but has content that is not popular with the crowd, is objectively good in my opinion.
Though these manga are popular though. It's just that the ones that don't like it voice their opinions the loudest. It's probably more reasonable looking at pure popularity for content that's controversial in my opinion. People wouldn't be that invested in a work that's objectively bad. Hell most objectively bad manga usually never get scanlated or officially translated (except if it's isekai). There's probably less than 90 percent of manga that are translated, which sort of fits with Sturgeon's law.

You're conflating the technical aspects of a work with the overall quality of the work. I can put all the work I like into making a Yugo out of the most beautifully crafted parts... it's still a Yugo.

But if you want to use popularity, then notice that nobody is talking about it, and it's barely being followed by anyone. A few angry comments here and there do not a popular-but-controversial manga make. I keep bringing up Cheeky Gyaru specifically because it's an example of a technically competent manga that's also bad, but nonetheless managed to gain a following of dedicated haters (Like myself). This is a manga that would be good, but for the fact that the author is a much better artist than she is a writer, and the story itself was just a dirty retool of a TOS-violating hentai she wrote up.

If a piece of media is competently put together, and nobody likes it, it's bad. It had one job, and it failed.