Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi wo Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 31 - The Second Encounter

[Haze123553]

I misquoted the chapter, it is chapter 23 I'm referring to like you said. Yami isn't thinking of a guy she can steal from a girl in that chapter. I'm not even sure where you got that impression, Yami hardly thinks about that in the monologue and that monologue doesn't indicates her interest lies in stealing him from a girl.


Iirc, the revenge line carries a deeper meaning in the series that isn't conveyed well in English. Some commentors picked up in chapter 26.

https://www.reddit.com/r/manga/comments/1gj1y86/_/lv9wwpo

Idk Maybe the quote about him being a fool for falling for a girl and how she wants to make him an idiot by falling for her was lost on you. Just following the logical explanation there

Idk my first thought when someone tells me that they did something to try and gain the affection of someone else isn't usually "hey ley me try to get with this person now" right after

Moreover, that reddit translation thread can't agree to what the meaning means there's literally several different explanations and none of them correlate. Either way she's using him without actually liking him.

 

[Highorse]

aye ik its prolly good writing to make her human and flawed n all but also I have that annoying little bug in my ear telling me she's being wayyyyy too over dramatic

 

[GennArc]

The issue is everyone else is being honest with Yami. Hikari and Yuu both opened up to her and trusted her and she has consistently not returned that trust and has consistently betrayed it.

It's not about returning the trust or not returning it. Hikari likely never had any difficult decisions to make in their relationship (though we are yet to see), so there was no need to omit or lie about anything. I agree that Hikari trusted Yami, it's just that the weight behind truths they can share is vastly different.
As for Yuu, it's less about trust and more about the commitment. "Beach" chapters show the difference in commitment to the relationship they had, especially that episode with Yami proposing to live together and Yuu just not giving her any reaction at all. Again, it's not like he is to blame or that Yami did the "correct" thing, it's just about perspectives and why Yami didn't want to drag him into her mess.

I have experienced hiding information from a loved one for “their benefit” and I’ve experienced telling them a difficult truth and I can tell you with certainty that lying to them “for their own good” has NEVER helped them in the long term. You don’t have to give them a blow by blow, you don’t have to give everything at once. But the second you think “I’m lying for their sake” you’re already lying to yourself. You don’t have to be mean about it, you can be both honest and kind. Hell you can even say “Hey here’s the broad strokes, but I don’t feel comfortable telling you everything right now”. Then they at least know something more is happening and maybe things need to slow down and breathe for a bit.

I have an opposite experience. Telling the truth sometimes hurt relationships much more than not sharing it. And it was not even anything malicious or even anything "objectively" unpleasant, it's just that there are truths people don't like, and one of the keys to relationships is finding the golden mean between brutal honesty and secretiveness.

 

[Dingo777]

It's not about returning the trust or not returning it. Hikari likely never had any difficult decisions to make in their relationship (though we are yet to see), so there was no need to omit or lie about anything. I agree that Hikari trusted Yami, it's just that the weight behind truths they can share is vastly different.
As for Yuu, it's less about trust and more about the commitment. "Beach" chapters show the difference in commitment to the relationship they had, especially that episode with Yami proposing to live together and Yuu just not giving her any reaction at all. Again, it's not like he is to blame or that Yami did the "correct" thing, it's just about perspectives and why Yami didn't want to drag him into her mess.

I have an opposite experience. Telling the truth sometimes hurt relationships much more than not sharing it. And it was not even anything malicious or even anything "objectively" unpleasant, it's just that there are truths people don't like, and one of the keys to relationships is finding the golden mean between brutal honesty and secretiveness.

The bigger the thing the MORE IMPORTANT it is to say. If, for example, my buddy was dating a girl I used to date I 100% would tell him we used to date, because if lied about it and hid it what are the options there? Avoid being with that friend again so that it never comes up? Walking on eggshells during any conversation? Stacking lie upon lie whenever they ask me for advice? Especially if something major happened like say they cheated during our relationship or I did something awful to them that could cause lasting effects on my friends attempt to be with them.

I’m not saying you can never tell a lie ever or you’re a bad person, but this is like THE THING you need to have that difficult conversation about. This isn’t “mom I cheated on my math test” or “sorry those jeans really don’t flatter your figure” this is “hey I have serious history with the person you love, this is going to effect all three of us in a major way so I’m going to give you a heads up rather than let you stumble in like a lamb to the slaughter.”

I honestly can not think how you could be friends with someone and justify lying about something like that? What was Yami’s plan here? You asked me what Hikari should have said so I’ll ask you: “What what’s Yami‘s plan to both never tell Hikari the truth and simultaneously not hurt her?” Because Yami suddenly pulling away from their friendship would hurt her, Yami secretly confronting Yuu would lead to issues between him and Hikari that Hikari would have no hope of dealing with uninformed, hell even if somehow Yami and Yuu’s encounter didn’t explode the way it did and they somehow managed to bein the same room together with Hikari the tension between them would be massive and Hikari would be stuck in the lurch wondering and anxious.

Theres no outcome to Yami keeping it a secret that ends well beyond the short term aside from solely for Yami.

And again I’m not saying she has to go into great detail or even say “I still love him” if she really wants Hikari and Yuu to be together. A simple “Hey Hikari, Yuu and I used to date, and it didn’t end well, I ended up really hurting him and I don’t feel comfortable seeing him again right now.” Would yes have made things a little uncomfortable but it would also allow Hikari some agency to deal with the situation in a way that can make both her friends comfortable and importantly not hurt each other.

If my buddy told me “Hey that girl you’re seeing, we used to date.” I would be confused but I’d be able to adapt and yes I’d probably have questions but my friendship would stay intact and I’d be thankful in the long term. If I found out 10 months down the road that they used to date and that he knew and never told me, I’d probably be a nervous wreck because obviously something was happening that he wanted to hide. That shows an intent to deceive which implies Malice even if it’s not there.

It’s always an easy opening for misunderstandings. Things can spin into gossip and gossip becomes a whole fucking lot more believable when you learn that the person HAS been lying to you.

Yami is playing Hikari for a fool and that’s not something you do to a friend. You mention the gold mean between honesty and secretiveness, but Yami has never once approached honesty.

 

[GennArc]

Your missing the point I don't need to think about it from Hikaris because we can't because she's never given the option it's likely your purposefully being obtuse.

When you're talking to someone important to you, be it a parent, lover, friend or colleague, you sometimes need to consider what their feelings on a subject could be or how your words could affect them. You can't know for sure but you still have to think about it, right?
Yet here you absolutely refuse to do it for some reason.

Being friends doesn't automatically mean supporting the relationship and that was never my problem with Yami, in fact I find it quite weird that this was the take away you got from the whole situation.

And no Hikari doesn't need to help Yami get back with Yuu, don't know why you'd assume that just because their friends she needs to disavow her own feelings neither have a higher claim to pursue Yuu.

In the "friendship is magic" world where friends should share their private life secrets and be completely honest and act in each other's best interest, surely that' what Hikari should do. If she indeed learned that her best friend and the guy she loves are still in love with each other, she should not stand between them and should help them, doesn't she?
Of course if we're talking about something more grounded in reality, that's not what she should do and she definitely has the right to fight for her love instead of being overly considerate to her friend. But with that approach, Yami's actions are also much more understandable and not as villainous as you're trying to paint them from the friendship is magic worldview.

I just said Yami shouldn't have kept the relationship a secret, she shouldn't have maintained a guise of 'helping' Hikari and her actions even discounting the kiss are Snakey in general.

She wasn't helping Hikari, she just gave her some moral support. And I can't see it as snakey at all. She doesn't want to ruin Hikari's first romantic experience with the ugly truth. She genuinely believes Yuu is in love with Hikari and she told her that. She tried to avoid meeting Yuu in the festival. There is nothing for her to gain even.

Yami is the one stating that she's there to help the relationship.

When did she ever state that?

Can't speak for everyone but I've never lied to my friends about liking the same person or acted like i supported a relationship with someone without telling them I am not neutral to it as I have a history with the person they're with.

Why are you talking about something so specific? If "friends share truths" is what we're coming from, then why are you not just saying "I've never lied to my friends"? There are tons of important topics you can lie about, and relationships is just one of them.

People might lie about not wanting to upset their parents about not getting a good test score they don't lie about a whole relationship

Should I ask again then? When entering a relationship, do you start off with giving details on all of your previous lovers and sexual experiences?

 

[VINT64]

So, she's the type to step at the back of her shoes. Tells a lot about her

 

[GennArc]

I honestly can not think how you could be friends with someone and justify lying about something like that? What was Yami’s plan here? You asked me what Hikari should have said so I’ll ask you: “What what’s Yami‘s plan to both never tell Hikari the truth and simultaneously not hurt her?” Because Yami suddenly pulling away from their friendship would hurt her, Yami secretly confronting Yuu would lead to issues between him and Hikari that Hikari would have no hope of dealing with uninformed, hell even if somehow Yami and Yuu’s encounter didn’t explode the way it did and they somehow managed to bein the same room together with Hikari the tension between them would be massive and Hikari would be stuck in the lurch wondering and anxious.

Theres no outcome to Yami keeping it a secret that ends well beyond the short term aside from solely for Yami.

I mean, that's the easiest thing to ever answer. They are in the middle of second year of their high school. One and a half year and they will most likely part ways because of colleges, universities and jobs. Yami even told Hikari that she should prioritize being with her boyfriend over being with her friends for the next year, so all Yami has to do is simply to avoid moments when Hikari says she will come with Yuu.

And again I’m not saying she has to go into great detail or even say “I still love him” if she really wants Hikari and Yuu to be together. A simple “Hey Hikari, Yuu and I used to date, and it didn’t end well, I ended up really hurting him and I don’t feel comfortable seeing him again right now.” Would yes have made things a little uncomfortable but it would also allow Hikari some agency to deal with the situation in a way that can make both her friends comfortable and importantly not hurt each other.

A little uncomfortable? You said it yourself, she might get so disappointed and put off that it ruins her first love. Or she might harbor a grudge against Yami or Yuu. There are so many potential unpleasant things that are on the "tell the truth" side of the scale that you need to consider that even if it's "morally" wrong.

If my buddy told me “Hey that girl you’re seeing, we used to date.” I would be confused but I’d be able to adapt and yes I’d probably have questions but my friendship would stay intact and I’d be thankful in the long term. If I found out 10 months down the road that they used to date and that he knew and never told me, I’d probably be a nervous wreck because obviously something was happening that he wanted to hide. That shows an intent to deceive which implies Malice even if it’s not there.

I trust you will, but there's no guarantee your hypothetical buddy would react in the same way if roles were reversed. It might completely ruin his relationship with a girl because a thought of his lover having an experience with his friend could put him off, even though she might genuinely love him and they could make a great couple.
Again, I'm not the one to judge what's the correct option here, all I'm saying is that there are two sides of the scale to consider, and it's not the easiest choice to make if we're talking about potential consequences.

 

[GennArc]

Idk Maybe the quote about him being a fool for falling for a girl and how she wants to make him an idiot by falling for her was lost on you.

She never said anything like that. All she said is that he was agonizing over something so insignificant (not being able to enter the same school as Hikari) compared to her own problems that she wanted to shatter his naive sentiments. As BlackHoxton said, it was never about stealing him from a girl (who he doesn't even belong to) and not about falling for her, it was just about ruining his naivety and purity. Which is not a good thing, but completely different from what you're saying.

 

[BlackHoxton]

Idk Maybe the quote about him being a fool for falling for a girl and how she wants to make him an idiot by falling for her was lost on you. Just following the logical explanation there

Idk my first thought when someone tells me that they did something to try and gain the affection of someone else isn't usually "hey ley me try to get with this person now" right after

Moreover, that reddit translation thread can't agree to what the meaning means there's literally several different explanations and none of them correlate. Either way she's using him without actually liking him.

You don't need to follow a logical explanation, the monologue spells it out directly. She thought it was dumb for Yuu to worry about a girl so she offers him sex to get over it. She's not trying to "steal" Yuu from another girl and that's not in the chapter.

This is what I mean about hyperfixating on hating Yami to the point where people start making stuff up just to keep hating.

 

[fflogschampion]

You don't need to follow a logical explanation, the monologue spells it out directly. She thought it was dumb for Yuu to worry about a girl so she offers him sex to get over it. She's not trying to "steal" Yuu from another girl and that's not in the chapter.

This is what I mean about hyperfixating on hating Yami to the point where people start making stuff up just to keep hating.

Nice straw man. People are calling her out for saying one thing and acting opposite of what she said in the present. What she did in the past isn't an excuse to what she did to her supposed best friend and this is what you consistently seem to be ignoring or failing to understanding. Or are you trying to say she has a claim on him because she wet his dick with her pussy?

 

[story645]

Sso all Yami has to do is simply to avoid moments when Hikari says she will come with Yuu.

Like the festival? Clearly that worked out well. Which is the point folks are trying to make - that a meeting between a close friend and a boyfriend is basically inevitable, so Yami avoiding a difficult one on one conversation w/ Hikari, which would have given Hikari time to process alone, leads to a blow up where all the feelings are on full display in the moment (ETA) and the chance of one or more person saying something they can't take back increases exponentially.

ETA2: I think what you're arguing is yes, and...she made this move b/c she was trying to avoid conflict/hurting her friend and this was her selfless reasoning. And what I (and other folks) am/are arguing is that it may seem selfless but it's actually fundementally selfish b/c it puts off her immediate discomfort w/ a delusion that the later (almost guaranteed to be worse, as shown in the festival chapter) hurt won't happen.

As for Yuu, it's less about trust and more about the commitment. "Beach" chapters show the difference in commitment to the relationship they had, especially that episode with Yami proposing to live together and Yuu just not giving her any reaction at all.

Yuu says "you always lie" in that chapter - he doesn't trust her enough to believe that she's being serious about moving in together. ETA: if it was just about commitment, he'd have a reaction - say no we're not ready, ask her why she's asking, etc. The no reaction is b/c he doesn't even know if he should.

 

[BlackHoxton]

Nice straw man. People are calling her out for saying one thing and acting opposite of what she said in the present. What she did in the past isn't an excuse to what she did to her supposed best friend and this is what you consistently seem to be ignoring or failing to understanding. Or are you trying to say she has a claim on him because she wet his dick with her pussy?

What strawman? We're literally discussing the events in the chapter and I disagreed with the conclusion.

"What she did in the past isn't an excuse to what she did to her supposed best friend"

The series is not trying to justifying Yami's actions, it's just explaining how she came to be as a person. The reason I don't lose my shit over her is because I can understand it even when her idealogy is fundamentally wrong.

I've read series where the author shows favourtism/warps the world to their self inserts and I definitely get annoyed at it but I'm not seeing it here (at least not yet).

 

[fflogschampion]

What strawman? We're literally discussing the events in the chapter and I disagreed with the conclusion.

"What she did in the past isn't an excuse to what she did to her supposed best friend"

The series is not trying to justifying Yami's actions, it's just explaining how she came to be as a person. The reason I don't lose my shit over her is because I can understand it even when her idealogy is fundamentally wrong.

I've read series where the author shows favourtism/warps the world to their self inserts and I definitely get annoyed at it but I'm not seeing it here (at least not yet).

And none of the reasons why she's like this are valid excuses, thus many people dislike her. That's about it.

But I'll agree with you that the author isn't bending reality to make her relatable (yet). He's presenting a situation and you either can relate to her self-inflicted bullshit or not. But the insistence on her narrative to the point we got feels patronizing, like he really wants to hammer the point that this character should be relatable, and that annoys people too.

And I mentioned it ITT, usually you give characters merits and flaws and he forgot to give her any real merits. You can argue here that maybe he perceives some of her traits as merits or don't view some of her flaws as real flaws but this is a disconnect from the people who won't buy the "I can fix her" angle.

Also, the first part of the manga (not the web novel) failed to show Hikari's character better. She has her struggles too, including her home situation that's not as serious as Ayami's but are still there, yet she turned out to be a nice girl by sticking with people instead of avoiding them while dealing with her jealousy and insecurities. Taking the novel into account I would say Hikari si a more nuanced character than Ayami right now.

 

[BlackHoxton]

And none of the reasons why she's like this are valid excuses, thus many people dislike her. That's about it.

But I'll agree with you that the author isn't bending reality to make her relatable (yet). He's presenting a situation and you either can relate to her self-inflicted bullshit or not. But the insistence on her narrative to the point we got feels patronizing, like he really wants to hammer the point that this character should be relatable, and that annoys people too.

And I mentioned it ITT, usually you give characters merits and flaws and he forgot to give her any real merits. You can argue here that maybe he perceives some of her traits as merits or don't view some of her flaws as real flaws but this is a disconnect from the people who won't buy the "I can fix her" angle.

Also, the first part of the manga (not the web novel) failed to show Hikari's character better. She has her struggles too, including her home situation that's not as serious as Ayami's but are still there, yet she turned out to be a nice girl by sticking with people instead of avoiding them while dealing with her jealousy and insecurities. Taking the novel into account I would say Hikari si a more nuanced character than Ayami right now.

Yeah I agree, I did say they aren't excuses in my last reply to be clear. Explanation =/= excuse

 

[GennArc]

Like the festival? Clearly that worked out well. Which is the point folks are trying to make - that a meeting between a close friend and a boyfriend is basically inevitable, so Yami avoiding a difficult one on one conversation w/ Hikari, which would have given Hikari time to process alone, leads to a blow up where all the feelings are on full display in the moment (ETA) and the chance of one or more person saying something they can't take back increases exponentially.

In hindsight yes, it didn't work, but I don't see how it's inevitable. From what we know, Yami has to spend quite a lot of time with her mother and can't really go out too much (at least that's what the sleepover chapter suggested), so it's not like they are hanging out together all the time. Yuu is also known to be diligently attending his own school, so chances of crossing paths with him at their school are quite low. So that leaves only a very limited number of times where Hikari and Yuu could meet Yami.

ETA2: I think what you're arguing is yes, and...she made this move b/c she was trying to avoid conflict/hurting her friend and this was her selfless reasoning. And what I (and other folks) am/are arguing is that it may seem selfless but it's actually fundementally selfish b/c it puts off her immediate discomfort w/ a delusion that the later (almost guaranteed to be worse, as shown in the festival chapter) hurt won't happen.

If we end up going into "altruism is egoism" territory, I will give up. But I think selflessness vs selfishness here is determined by whose best interest she had in mind first. It's not something we can tell for now, but at least logically the truth was definitely going to hit Hikari the most. So to me it feels like avoiding that hit was the primary goal.

Yuu says "you always lie" in that chapter - he doesn't trust her enough to believe that she's being serious about moving in together. ETA: if it was just about commitment, he'd have a reaction - say no we're not ready, ask her why she's asking, etc. The no reaction is b/c he doesn't even know if he should.

I think the "lie" part is about her family situation, which she does lie about in chapter 27. The lack of reaction is because of her teasing. I will quote again

Spoiler

"Wanna live together?"
"...What?"

One second... two...

Yuu’s blank expression...
It doesn’t change at all.

It wasn’t surprise, or a sudden realization, or anything that felt serious.
It was just blank, dazed, with no expectations, and no possibilities at all.

"So yeah, I'll make you my boy toy, and we can just live a carefree life together! Haha!"
"Agh! You're lying again!"

So, I do what I always do -- I change course.

"Not that I expect you to get it. You're in the middle of your bright, shiny youth, after all."
"You're the same age, you know!"

I let go of his hand and poke his nose playfully.
Teasing him like the younger guy he is, pretending to be the lazy, carefree girl who lives for the moment.

This is fine......
No, this is what I decided from the start.
So why am I wavering now?

And the difference in commitment is exactly about this - even though it's a heavy line, if you're really committed to the relationship, that's definitely something you'd dream of. So even if he thinks it's teasing, he could still be tempted by this. It's not like he is to blame, they are only in HS after all, but she really was serious about it.

 

[GennArc]

Taking the novel into account I would say Hikari si a more nuanced character than Ayami right now.

At this point Hikari is too far behind Yami in terms of characterization and nuances. The nature of her chapters is partly to blame - light-hearted comedy is not really designed for exploring a character and giving him depth. Hopefully once we're back to the present, we will be able to see other sides of hers. But as of now she is a much simpler character, comically cheerful, comically naive and comically jealous (talking about Seki and that girl from chapter 16, not about that chapter). There isn't even much to discuss about her characterization because her narration doesn't leave any questions, and the only one up in the air (what is she gonna do now in present?) can't even be hypothetically answered because this whole situation is completely alien to her, we just have no idea and none of her previous experiences could provide any possible answers.

 

[story645]

In hindsight yes, it didn't work, but I don't see how it's inevitable.

B/c the festival climax is the author showing that it was inevitable. The author wrote Yuu trying to not go and Aya trying to hide and them still meeting and Hikari catching the moment they kiss to say "hey, this was the inevitable climax of these decisions"

I think the "lie" part is about her family situation, which she does lie about in chapter 27. The lack of reaction is because of her teasing. I will quote again

From the spoiler you're quoting:

It was just blank, dazed, with no expectations, and no possibilities at all.

"So yeah, I'll make you my boy toy, and we can just live a carefree life together! Haha!"
"Agh! You're lying again!"

So, I do what I always do -- I change course.

He says "you're lying again" to her deflection/mood shift "So yeah..." which she has in response to his blankness. And her response to the lying comment is to again deflect, like she says she always does, which is the thing he just called her out as "lying".
This isn't a family issue, this is an Aya, as she says to herself in the quote you posted ("pretending to be the lazy, carefree girl who lives for the moment") pretends w/ him issue & he knows it. Like any commitment issues stem from him not sure if she's the serious girl who's madly in love with him or the carefree girl who lives for the moment and that's fundementally a he doesn't trust where he stands w/ her or her feelings for him issue.

 

[GennArc]

B/c the festival climax is the author showing that it was inevitable. The author wrote Yuu trying to not go and Aya trying to hide and them still meeting and Hikari catching the moment they kiss to say "hey, this was the inevitable climax of these decisions"

Here I disagree completely. It's an unfortunate turn of events which was not set in stone. Just from my experience with Maruto's works, he definitely likes the fateful encounter kind of thing, and some of them happen in very unlikely circumstances. Like the one in Strasbourg, if you know what I mean.

From the spoiler you're quoting:
He says "you're lying again" to her deflection/mood shift "So yeah..." which she has in response to his blankness. And her response is to flip her mood again, like she says she always does, which is the thing he just called her out as "lying". This isn't a family issue, this is an Aya, as she says to herself in the quote you posted ("pretending to be the lazy, carefree girl who lives for the moment") pretends w/ him issue & he knows it. Like any commitment issues stem from him not sure if she's the serious girl who's madly in love with him or the carefree girl who lives for the moment and that's fundementally a he doesn't trust where he stands w/ her or her feelings for him issue.

Fair point about lying, you're right.
Still, what I don't agree with is the lack of trust part. In my view, Yuu just sees it all as teasing and tries not to fall for it because that's the kind of dynamic they have. I might be wrong of course, since we haven't seen his POV, but it feels like a person as earnest as Yuu isn't a type to fall for a person he doesn't trust. If you remember how chapters 24 and 25 unfolded, it's pretty much about him responding to earnesty and not responding to falsehood.
So my point about the difference in commitment still stands - if he was as committed, he would've reacted even if it could mean more teasing.

 

[Dawniscoming]

Honestly I don't really see the outrage towards Yami. It's not like Yuu was having an affair or Yami was doing it to torment Hikari. Game is game ¯\(ツ)/¯.

That's such a pathetic thing to say 💀

 

[Dawniscoming]

The relationship happened before Yami knew Hikari so there isn't really a stabbing going on here. The worst thing that happened was that she didn't tell Hikari immediately once she connected the dots but it's not really a malicious action.

She kisses her best friend's crush because he's someone she ghosted and didn't get over but that's not a malicious action?? She even KNEW that she was the one Yuu was in love with and still did it. To all the fans that still defend Yami after all the shit she has done: y'all reek.