Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi wo Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 31 - The Second Encounter

[Haze123553]

Ah no, they do matter. Do you consider someone killing out of self defence the same as someone that killed to rob a store?

You can't really have accountability if you don't even understand what's going on with Yami.

Trying to compare killing in self defense to intentionally going behind your friends back isn't really a fair comparison is it.

Her intent doesn't matter either way because your intentions don't always justify your actions.

You can always attend to do good and still cause bad and you whilst acknowledging the intention still be punished or hated that's just reality.

 

[GennArc]

It's not about what Hikari should do it's about having the choice of making a decision in the first place.

Hikari isn't able to make a decision of if she wants to be with Yuu or even be friend's with Yami because not all available knowledge is given to her.

You're asking the wrong question here.

No, it's most definitely about what Hikari should or would do and how hearing the truth affects her. Because that's what determines Yami's course of action.
So I ask yet again, what should Hikari do when she hears the truth about Yami's history with Yuu and her feelings as her friend?

 

[BlackHoxton]

So because people don't act rationally they are somehow excused from fault? Kinda backwards ass logic is that.

I don't need an excuse to hate Yami, ger actions hurt people intentionally or not and even if not rational it's something that we know she's capable of understanding.

rather then having an excuse to her hate her the author is trying to make excuses as to why we shouldn't, and quite frankly his excuses fail.

If y'all like her that's fine but I can guarantee you wouldn't want someone like her in your real life and you wouldn't have sympathy for her if you were in this situation.

Nah I just don't really buy the arguments against Yami when their focused on hating every single aspect of her in the story.

I can understand why she didn't say anything and know she should have told Hikari. I don't spend every chapter hating on her because the manga didn't remain the generic braindead wish fulfillment manga.

I wouldn't even say the author is making pity bait with Yami's backstory. Their just explaining why she acts in a particular way.

 

[BlackHoxton]

Trying to compare killing in self defense to intentionally going behind your friends back isn't really a fair comparison is it.

Her intent doesn't matter either way because your intentions don't always justify your actions.

You can always attend to do good and still cause bad and you whilst acknowledging the intention still be punished or hated that's just reality.

My point is that the "circumstances doesn't matter argument" doesn't hold up. If Yami was diabolical, that would make a very differenr character and I wouldn't care as much about the hate.

Also you don't need to react to every single one of my posts with the dumb emoji, it comes off as passive aggressive and not contributing to civil discussion.

 

[Haze123553]

No, it's most definitely about what Hikari should or would do and how hearing the truth affects her. Because that's what determines Yami's course of action.
So I ask yet again, what should Hikari do when she hears the truth about Yami's history with Yuu and her feelings as her friend?

This logic makes literally no sense.

But sure I'll humour you. Hikari should do whatever she wants to do. If that answer doesn't satisfy you maybe think about why that is and how no answer will satisfy you because it shouldn't be the focus.

 

[Haze123553]

My point is that the "circumstances doesn't matter argument" doesn't hold up. If Yami was diabolical, that would make a very differenr character and I wouldn't care as much about the hate.

Also you don't need to react to every single one of my posts with the dumb emoji, it comes off as passive aggressive and not contributing to civil discussion.

I mean Yami is diabolical her intentions for getting with Yuu in the first place was because hse knew there was a girl he liked and she wanted to snatch him from her.

Her falling for him doesn't magically rectify that or make it any less an asshole thing to do.

Granted she didn't know Hikari making it slightly more justifiable but still very shitty reason to go out with someone.

Lying and keeping that relationship from her very good friend is another shitty thing to do even if it's not intentional and she's doing it to avoid hurting Hikari it's still robbing Hikari of choice.

also I react to what's dumb by calling it dumb.

I don't hate the manga for dealing with edgy non fluff element's and if it's done right those stories can be great but the authors not capable of that.

And no straight up the author is making pity bait theres literally no other way to see it.

She comes from a broken home, her mum's dying, her dad cheated on her mum. she literally has a panel doing the anime waifu cries meme. Like come on if that's not text book pity bait I don't know what is.

And it's not like the author explains all of this in some great way through lot's of clever little tidbits it's literally blunt straight up 30% of the manga all said directly through flashback trying to get us to like her, and is still going probably for another 20 chapters.

 

[ComNguoi]

Yami’s strong points are… she’s clever?

I would argue that her strongest point is that she is very straightforward and acts toward it to get what she wants, I'm very tired of seeing the passive girl in the anga by this point already, Hikari does "try" to get on a "date" with Yuu if we can even call that a date... The only thing stopping Yami from getting together with Yuu is her depression.

I think that's also a big reason why I like her character so much since she is basically the manga version of me lmao (people also said that I'm too blunt most of the time) and I just want her to be happy .

 

[Haze123553]

I would argue that her strongest point is that she is very straightforward and acts toward it to get what she wants, I'm very tired of seeing the passive girl in the anga by this point already, Hikari does "try" to get on a "date" with Yuu if we can even call that a date... The only thing stopping Yami from getting together with Yuu is her depression.

I think that's also a big reason why I like her character so much since she is basically the manga version of me lmao (people also said that I'm too blunt most of the time) and I just want her to be happy .

So blunt she can't seem to tell her best friend she has a relationship with her best friends crush?

 

[Dingo777]

No, it's most definitely about what Hikari should or would do and how hearing the truth affects her. Because that's what determines Yami's course of action.
So I ask yet again, what should Hikari do when she hears the truth about Yami's history with Yuu and her feelings as her friend?

The issue is we have no of knowing how Hikari would even feel about it, because she never got told. Hell Hikari might genuinely be put off and not want to date Yuu anymore, instead she was robbed of crucial information so she effectively can’t make a choice. That’s the issue. She’s forcing her to go blind into a situation that could really hurt her.

I guess the best response to your question is “She should ask for more information”. The Yuu she knows is different from the real Yuu, and Yami forcing her to proceed under those circumstances is harmful in and of itself. Instead Yami decided all by herself that she’s comfortable sending her friend off to the slaughter with a guy she’s likely traumatized which may end up making the relationship toxic just because she doesn’t want to put herself at any short term risk.

Yami only cares about Yami.

 

[Dingo777]

I would argue that her strongest point is that she is very straightforward and acts toward it to get what she wants, I'm very tired of seeing the passive girl in the anga by this point already, Hikari does "try" to get on a "date" with Yuu if we can even call that a date... The only thing stopping Yami from getting together with Yuu is her depression.

I think that's also a big reason why I like her character so much since she is basically the manga version of me lmao (people also said that I'm too blunt most of the time) and I just want her to be happy .

She’s NOT straightforward though, she manipulates every scenario to her advantage behind the scenes so as never to reveal her true feelings or have to invest directly in the outcome. She’s honestly super sneaky.

The thing stopping her from being with Yuu is that she can’t be honest with people because honesty comes with risk. She would have to trust the other person and rely on them to trust her. So she’d rather hide and lie and self-serve.

The person she is right now is not different from the person she was, then the chips are down she can’t be trusted because she’s been consistently shown to betray peoples trust because she will always value her own security and comfort over her friends or lovers.

Keeping Yuu would have been as simple as saying “Hey I need to prioritize my mom right now.” But that would require her to be straightforward and honest and she might look bad in front of the guy she likes. Actually helping Hikari be with Yuu would require her to tell her she had a past relationship with him that ended badly but that would require being straightforward and honest and she might look bad in front of her friend.

Her bluntness isn’t even honest it’s a defense mechanism that forces anyone who wants to associate with her to invest in the relationship more than she has to. If you really want her to be happy then ship her with a good therapist, not the guy she hurt in the worst way.

 

[ComNguoi]

She’s NOT straightforward though, she manipulates every scenario to her advantage behind the scenes so as never to reveal her true feelings or have to invest directly in the outcome. She’s honestly super sneaky.

The thing stopping her from being with Yuu is that she can’t be honest with people because honesty comes with risk. She would have to trust the other person and rely on them to trust her. So she’d rather hide and lie and self-serve.

The person she is right now is not different from the person she was, then the chips are down she can’t be trusted because she’s been consistently shown to betray peoples trust because she will always value her own security and comfort over her friends or lovers.

Keeping Yuu would have been as simple as saying “Hey I need to prioritize my mom right now.” But that would require her to be straightforward and honest and she might look bad in front of the guy she likes. Actually helping Hikari be with Yuu would require her to tell her she had a past relationship with him that ended badly but that would require being straightforward and honest and she might look bad in front of her friend.

Her bluntness isn’t even honest it’s a defense mechanism that forces anyone who wants to associate with her to invest in the relationship more than she has to. If you really want her to be happy then ship her with a good therapist, not the guy she hurt in the worst way.

Damn, this manga might help me with my life ngl. It's good to see myself from other people's POV so I can adjust myself.

I still ship Yami with Yuu. LIke if you guys like Hikari that much, shouldn't you guy hope for a better guy for her lmao?

 

[BlackHoxton]

I mean Yami is diabolical her intentions for getting with Yuu in the first place was because he knew there was a girl he liked and he wanted to snatch him from her.

Her falling for him doesn't magically rectify that or make it any less an asshole thing to do.

Granted she didn't know Hikari making it slightly more justifiable but still very shitty reason to go out with someone.

Lying and keeping that relationship from her very good friend is another shitty thing to do even if it's not intentional and she's doing it to avoid hurting Hikari it's still robbing Hikari of choice.

also I react to what's dumb by calling it dumb.

Reread chapter 22, her interest has nothing to do with Yuu having another girl he liked.

Honestly it feels like Yami haters are reading a different version of the manga when they warp certain events to an unreaonable extent.

Yami keeping things from Hikari is obviously the wrong choice. At the same time, I find this isn't the real reason people hate her as much as the meta reason for Yami serving as the ntr elements (even though hikari and yuu aren't dating) she brings in an otherwise generic romcom.

Lastly, regarding "also I react to what's dumb by calling it dumb." There's a line of civility I try to maintain here. If you want to continue being toxic i'm fine with blocking and moving on with my life. I'm just trying to keep things respectful since there are more important things than a fictional story.

 

[Dingo777]

Damn, this manga might help me with my life ngl. It's good to see myself from other people's POV so I can adjust myself.

I still ship Yami with Yuu. LIke if you guys like Hikari that much, shouldn't you guy hope for a better guy for her lmao?

I don’t mean this condescendingly or insultingly, seek professional help. It’s legitimately one of the best things you can do to understand yourself better and when you can understand yourself better you can enact positive changes for yourself and for those around you.

Ultimately I want Hikari to come out of this happy, and frankly I see that as an option with Yuu, even after all this. Yuu was as much of a victim in this as Hikari is and I think them ending up together could be good for both of them. The alternative really would be that she loses two extremely important people in her life through no fault of her own.

 

[Haze123553]

Reread chapter 22, her interest has nothing to do with Yuu having another girl he liked.

Honestly it feels like Yami haters are reading a different version of the manga when they warp certain events to an unreaonable extent.

Yami keeping things from Hikari is obviously the wrong choice. At the same time, I find this isn't the real reason people hate her as much as the meta reason for Yami serving as the ntr elements in an otherwie generic romcom.

Lastly, regarding "also I react to what's dumb by calling it dumb." There's a line of civility I try to maintain here. If you want to continue being toxic i'm fine with blocking and moving on with my life. I'm just trying to keep things respectful since there are more important things than a fictional story.

She finds out about Hikari in chapter 23 you sure you're not reading the same manga?

She literally says 'if he's going to be this foolish (in reference to liking Hikari and trying to go the same school as her) isn't it fine if I make him an idiot" clear evidence she started to get interested in him romantically soley because he liked someone else. She inacts a "revenge plan" if this was a guy we'd call them an edgelord xD

This isn't ntr no one's blaming her for having a past with Yuu there blaming her past being horrible writing on Hating her. Her being toxic and hurting everyone around her and the author somehow trying to make her the victim by having some tragic backstory.

You can say it's generic but at the end of the day so is Yami, she's literally the cliché of madam havishim

 

[GennArc]

This logic makes literally no sense.

But sure I'll humour you. Hikari should do whatever she wants to do. If that answer doesn't satisfy you maybe think about why that is and how no answer will satisfy you because it shouldn't be the focus.

Not only you refuse to think about the situation from Yami's standpoint, you don't even want to think about it from Hikari's standpoint and consider her personality. Yami must do something as a friend and Hikari may do whatever she wants. Now this is a logic that makes absolute sense.
But I can answer for you. As Yami's friend, Hikari should ask Yuu if he still likes Yami. And if he does, she should help them get back together. Because they are friends, right? That's what you want, don't you?

The issue is we have no of knowing how Hikari would even feel about it, because she never got told. Hell Hikari might genuinely be put off and not want to date Yuu anymore, instead she was robbed of crucial information so she effectively can’t make a choice. That’s the issue. She’s forcing her to go blind into a situation that could really hurt her.

I commend you for at least trying to put yourself in Hikari's shoes (again). But my answer again would be "that's what Yami might have wanted to avoid".

Just tell them the truth. It feels right and fair to everyone, doesn't it? Because everyone likes truth and honesty. At least until it concerns themselves and their relationships.
No one starts a relationship with giving your partner a list of people you previously were in relationship with, who you confessed to, who you had sex with and how many times. No one says "honey, to be honest, when we just met, I liked your friend better because she had a nice ass, but then I ended up falling in love with you because she was already taken". Ask yourself, how many times in your life you lied to your friends or parents with both their and your own interest in mind. And then go ahead, continue to blame fictional characters for omitting the truth.

 

[BlackHoxton]

She finds out about Hikari in chapter 23 you sure you're not reading the same manga?

She literally says 'if he's going to be this foolish (in reference to liking Hikari and trying to go the same school as her) isn't it fine if I make him an idiot" clear evidence she started to get interested in him romantically soley because he liked someone else. She inacts a "revenge plan" if this was a guy we'd call them an edgelord xD

This isn't ntr no one's blaming her for having a past with Yuu there blaming her past being horrible writing on Hating her. Her being toxic and hurting everyone around her and the author somehow trying to make her the victim by having some tragic backstory.

You can say it's generic but at the end of the day so is Yami, she's literally the cliché of madam havishim

I misquoted the chapter, it is chapter 23 I'm referring to like you said. Yami isn't thinking of a guy she can steal from a girl in that chapter. I'm not even sure where you got that impression, Yami hardly thinks about that in the monologue and that monologue doesn't indicates her interest lies in stealing him from a girl.


Iirc, the revenge line carries a deeper meaning in the series that isn't conveyed well in English. Some commentors picked up in chapter 26.

https://www.reddit.com/r/manga/comments/1gj1y86/_/lv9wwpo

 

[Dingo777]

I commend you for at least trying to put yourself in Hikari's shoes (again). But my answer again would be "that's what Yami might have wanted to avoid".

Just tell them the truth. It feels right and fair to everyone, doesn't it? Because everyone likes truth and honesty. At least until it concerns themselves and their relationships.
No one starts a relationship with giving your partner a list of people you previously were in relationship with, who you confessed to, who you had sex with and how many times. No one says "honey, to be honest, when we just met, I liked your friend better because she had a nice ass, but then I ended up falling in love with you because she was already taken". Ask yourself, how many times in your life you lied to your friends or parents with both their and your own interest in mind. And then go ahead, continue to blame fictional characters for omitting the truth.

The issue is everyone else is being honest with Yami. Hikari and Yuu both opened up to her and trusted her and she has consistently not returned that trust and has consistently betrayed it.

I have experienced hiding information from a loved one for “their benefit” and I’ve experienced telling them a difficult truth and I can tell you with certainty that lying to them “for their own good” has NEVER helped them in the long term. You don’t have to give them a blow by blow, you don’t have to give everything at once. But the second you think “I’m lying for their sake” you’re already lying to yourself. You don’t have to be mean about it, you can be both honest and kind. Hell you can even say “Hey here’s the broad strokes, but I don’t feel comfortable telling you everything right now”. Then they at least know something more is happening and maybe things need to slow down and breathe for a bit.

For proof that lying for “others sakes” is ultimately more harmful please refer to the whole blow up that happened at the cultural festival.

 

[Aezeryel]

I don’t mean this condescendingly or insultingly, seek professional help. It’s legitimately one of the best things you can do to understand yourself better and when you can understand yourself better you can enact positive changes for yourself and for those around you.

Ultimately I want Hikari to come out of this happy, and frankly I see that as an option with Yuu, even after all this. Yuu was as much of a victim in this as Hikari is and I think them ending up together could be good for both of them. The alternative really would be that she loses two extremely important people in her life through no fault of her own.

Hikari will never be happy with Yuu because she'll always be comparing herself to Ayami. She being Yuu's "first" will never go away and someone as sheltered and naive as Hikari won't be able to deal with that.

 

[Dingo777]

Hikari will never be happy with Yuu because she'll always be comparing herself to Ayami. She being Yuu's "first" will never go away and someone as sheltered and naive as Hikari won't be able to deal with that.

I read somewhere “Men care about being your first, women care about being your last”. Honestly I think it’s something she could, and should overcome. Real relationships are messy and while she’s kind of had Yuu on a pedestal she’s been able to get over the fact that he’s dated before and that he jerks off, so I think yeah it would take some time but it’s something she can deal with long term. She’s naive yes but she’s also much stronger than Yami.

 

[Haze123553]

Not only you refuse to think about the situation from Yami's standpoint, you don't even want to think about it from Hikari's standpoint and consider her personality. Yami must do something as a friend and Hikari may do whatever she wants. Now this is a logic that makes absolute sense.
But I can answer for you. As Yami's friend, Hikari should ask Yuu if he still likes Yami. And if he does, she should help them get back together. Because they are friends, right? That's what you want, don't you?


I commend you for at least trying to put yourself in Hikari's shoes (again). But my answer again would be "that's what Yami might have wanted to avoid".

Just tell them the truth. It feels right and fair to everyone, doesn't it? Because everyone likes truth and honesty. At least until it concerns themselves and their relationships.
No one starts a relationship with giving your partner a list of people you previously were in relationship with, who you confessed to, who you had sex with and how many times. No one says "honey, to be honest, when we just met, I liked your friend better because she had a nice ass, but then I ended up falling in love with you because she was already taken". Ask yourself, how many times in your life you lied to your friends or parents with both their and your own interest in mind. And then go ahead, continue to blame fictional characters for omitting the truth.

No I understand Yamis standpoint just fine I just think it's BS

Your missing the point I don't need to think about it from Hikaris because we can't because she's never given the option it's likely your purposefully being obtuse.

Being friends doesn't automatically mean supporting the relationship and that was never my problem with Yami, in fact I find it quite weird that this was the take away you got from the whole situation.

And no Hikari doesn't need to help Yami get back with Yuu, don't know why you'd assume that just because their friends she needs to disavow her own feelings neither have a higher claim to pursue Yuu.

I just said Yami shouldn't have kept the relationship a secret, she shouldn't have maintained a guise of 'helping' Hikari and her actions even discounting the kiss are Snakey in general.

"No one starts a relationship with giving your partner a list of people" no but friend's usually do, your whole argument bout Yuu having to say he liked Yami doesn't make sense it should be Yami that tells Hikari because Yami is the one stating that she's there to help the relationship.

Can't speak for everyone but I've never lied to my friends about liking the same person or acted like i supported a relationship with someone without telling them I am not neutral to it as I have a history with the person they're with.

Fact your framing Yami's relationship with Yuu as akin as just being about having someone's interest in mind is disingenuous. People might lie about not wanting to upset their parents about not getting a good test score they don't lie about a whole relationship