Dex-chan lover
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Finally got translated. Thanks a lot.
Isekai Ekisha no Kissaten
- Thread starter MangaDex
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Dex-chan lover
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- Jan 24, 2018
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@RhoninFire Scanlators are INCREDIBLY territorial. I have no idea if it's an ego thing or what, but I've seen many times where some dude translates some side material and the main translator throws a tantrum and stops translating the series entirely.
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@Dacor Hold up, translator at LH here. LH has had its fair share of series sniped away, so the last thing we want is to be sniping this one and ruin whatever reputation we have left. The proofreader for this series asked @Stan-Miller if they wanted to do a joint project since we already have 6 chapters of it translated.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/359132996118511616/494022246826901504/kissaten_2.PNG
I don't know why Stan has walked away from this in the way that they have, for all I know our boss has gone and threatened them in a DM or something and maybe LH really is at fault here. But hold up on the baseless accusations, alright?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/359132996118511616/494022246826901504/kissaten_2.PNG
I don't know why Stan has walked away from this in the way that they have, for all I know our boss has gone and threatened them in a DM or something and maybe LH really is at fault here. But hold up on the baseless accusations, alright?
Group Leader
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@maxman14 It is worth noting that some groups (like ours) are getting payed to keep up with releases of particular series, so when another group comes along and just starts releasing chapters of series we're already doing it's hurting our already quite limited budget, in some cases we're paying out of our own pocket for the raws too and have already gone through the process of cleaning and redrawing them (which we pay people to do) and often it's already been translated when they release it (which again, our translators get payed for) and then this other group comes along and wastes all that because they didn't ask the group that was handling the series first. It also hurts the reader because it makes for an uneven reading experience, it might seem like a positive in the short term, but in the long term it'll make it more confusing and more difficult for a newcomer trying to read the series.
TLDR: Other groups trying to take existing series over from the original group against their will really doesn't benefit the reader or the original group, it just benefits the people trying to snipe it.
Now this situation with Kissaten is an entirely different matter, nobody knew aside from the staff that we were planning on picking up this series therefore nobody did anything wrong within either group.
TLDR: Other groups trying to take existing series over from the original group against their will really doesn't benefit the reader or the original group, it just benefits the people trying to snipe it.
Now this situation with Kissaten is an entirely different matter, nobody knew aside from the staff that we were planning on picking up this series therefore nobody did anything wrong within either group.
@Stan-Miller
Do keep going with the series, LH might be "fast" and do "many" series, but their translations leave a lot to be desired, they're mostly subpar and make lots of grammar and morphologic errors (which is fine given the quantity af things they work on), one of the worst (for me) being the overuse of "Very delicious" and the like (delicious goes alone: "this is delicious", you can't say "this is very delicious", for those times the correct word is "very good" or "the best", delicious is a superlative, and thus needs not be accompanied by anything, though you can say "this is the most delicious thing ever", if I'm not mistaken).
Go at your own pace, it's not like you're competing against them or anything.
Do keep going with the series, LH might be "fast" and do "many" series, but their translations leave a lot to be desired, they're mostly subpar and make lots of grammar and morphologic errors (which is fine given the quantity af things they work on), one of the worst (for me) being the overuse of "Very delicious" and the like (delicious goes alone: "this is delicious", you can't say "this is very delicious", for those times the correct word is "very good" or "the best", delicious is a superlative, and thus needs not be accompanied by anything, though you can say "this is the most delicious thing ever", if I'm not mistaken).
Go at your own pace, it's not like you're competing against them or anything.
. iirc each chapter has recipes at the end
Dex-chan lover
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@hyrule13 "doesn't benefit the readers"? How does it not benefit the readers when someone chooses to put out a better version of a scanlation that has better grammar from actual proofreading and doesn't repeat words or lines when the context of the story is trying to have varied narratives in the speech of the characters. You LH tend to put out subpar or lacking scanlations that almost never get fixes and I can only wish for the best to whoever decides to go back and fix any and all mess ups your group has made. And don't get me started on the active delay in releases that LH holds for months at a time making people assume you have dropped those manga.
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- Sep 25, 2018
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@kn1000a Hi, translator for LH here. I don't know what sort of misunderstanding we've had with Croxx-over, but we've had the chapter 1 translation lying around for one or two months now, and either boss just never fucking released it or the typesetters were too overloaded with work already to finish it. Either way, it's more than fair that @Stan-Miller 's group went and picked it up during that time. The proofreader reached out to do a joint project since it'd be a shame to just let the 6 chapters that we've had sitting around go to waste, but then we've ended up with this situation.
@ALLxISxLOST Hi, translator for LH here. Yeah, I agree with you about the sniping. When a series gets sniped it usually has a reason to be sniped, which is fine as long as the release time is much quicker or the quality is significantly better. @hyrule13 's point about benefitting the reader still stands when the quality of the group being sniped wasn't particularly bad in the first place or if the sniper group doesn't improve very much on it, but again sniped manga usually have a reason to be sniped. I can't feel much sympathy for a group when a chapter hasn't been released in like 4 months and it gets sniped. I'm not going to address the monetary stuff hyrule13 talks about because I'm not about to start shitting on it without knowing enough about it. In regards to the quality of LH's chapters, see the paragraph below.
@Antairan Hi, translator for LH here. Yeah we do a lot of series but that certainly shouldn't excuse the quality of some of our chapters. We do a lot of series because we have a fair number of translators and proofreaders, so really the number of series a single translator does shouldn't be too different compared to other groups (except for a few exceptions). When you see a chapter that's horrible to read, go to the LH discord and point it out in the feedback channel. Heck, if it's really horrible then ping the translator/proofreader/typesetter, whichever you think the errors came from. Be warned that you might not be able to find the typesetters on the discord, since our lack of typesetters means we end up having to rely on the Vietnamese side of LH.
@ALLxISxLOST Hi, translator for LH here. Yeah, I agree with you about the sniping. When a series gets sniped it usually has a reason to be sniped, which is fine as long as the release time is much quicker or the quality is significantly better. @hyrule13 's point about benefitting the reader still stands when the quality of the group being sniped wasn't particularly bad in the first place or if the sniper group doesn't improve very much on it, but again sniped manga usually have a reason to be sniped. I can't feel much sympathy for a group when a chapter hasn't been released in like 4 months and it gets sniped. I'm not going to address the monetary stuff hyrule13 talks about because I'm not about to start shitting on it without knowing enough about it. In regards to the quality of LH's chapters, see the paragraph below.
@Antairan Hi, translator for LH here. Yeah we do a lot of series but that certainly shouldn't excuse the quality of some of our chapters. We do a lot of series because we have a fair number of translators and proofreaders, so really the number of series a single translator does shouldn't be too different compared to other groups (except for a few exceptions). When you see a chapter that's horrible to read, go to the LH discord and point it out in the feedback channel. Heck, if it's really horrible then ping the translator/proofreader/typesetter, whichever you think the errors came from. Be warned that you might not be able to find the typesetters on the discord, since our lack of typesetters means we end up having to rely on the Vietnamese side of LH.
@hyrule13
I skipped reading some posts before, but yours... yours is complete and utter BS, there is simply no other way to define the nonsese you just said. If you're getting paid (PAID, not payed) then you're making profit from something that is NOT yours, and you're in fact harming the scanlation comunity as well as all of its readers! Since you're pretty much telling the owners of that manga to send a DMCA to anyone scanlating it! Or worse yet, telling them that the west is made but by a bunch of thiefs!
And the fact that more people are scanlating a single title is better for everyone! This brings in competitivity into play and eventually benefits the reader the most! (VS what official companies do, which you're mimmicking!) As well as the manga industry since it tells them that many people are interested in scanlating a title! That you have a budget!? stop kidding around! Scanlation was born out of love for the art and to comunicate it worldwide, if you need the money you'd otherwise use for food, you're doing it wrong! This is a hobby, not a way to earn your keep! If you like scanlating, use your own money to buy the official manga, scan it, and then translate, clean the raws, etc. by yourself or a small team of friends, asking money for this is simply wrong. Even if you're asking for donations to buy the original manga, it's not morally correct to do so.
@jichanbachan
Well, then maybe it's only exclusive to Isekai and fantasy titles, but most, if not all, the titles I've read are pretty much filled with errors on every single page, be it an actual spelling error, grammar mistakes, morphological nonsense, weird sentence structures, incorrect use of active/passive tense, weird and/or incorrect use of certain words ("existance" is something I see faaaar too many times, and it's not wrong per se, but it's not used in english to refer to something or someone; "humanity" is used far too many times in places where "mankind" and "man" should be used, like: "The son of man seems far too weak" or "mankind will perish at this rate"). I'm not even trying to be nitpicky, but all of the above happens far too often, though I must say it's not exclusive to your group's translations, though you put out more stuff and it's obviously more noticeable. Oh, and don't expect me to go out of my way to tell in your own discord, searching for your translators/PR/whatever what's wrong in one chapter or some other manga, that's your queue as scanlators to find what's going on, I'm already helping enough by telling you there's a problem, I could have simply ignored it and move on after all (meaning I care about you all, even if it's a little bit).
I skipped reading some posts before, but yours... yours is complete and utter BS, there is simply no other way to define the nonsese you just said. If you're getting paid (PAID, not payed) then you're making profit from something that is NOT yours, and you're in fact harming the scanlation comunity as well as all of its readers! Since you're pretty much telling the owners of that manga to send a DMCA to anyone scanlating it! Or worse yet, telling them that the west is made but by a bunch of thiefs!
And the fact that more people are scanlating a single title is better for everyone! This brings in competitivity into play and eventually benefits the reader the most! (VS what official companies do, which you're mimmicking!) As well as the manga industry since it tells them that many people are interested in scanlating a title! That you have a budget!? stop kidding around! Scanlation was born out of love for the art and to comunicate it worldwide, if you need the money you'd otherwise use for food, you're doing it wrong! This is a hobby, not a way to earn your keep! If you like scanlating, use your own money to buy the official manga, scan it, and then translate, clean the raws, etc. by yourself or a small team of friends, asking money for this is simply wrong. Even if you're asking for donations to buy the original manga, it's not morally correct to do so.
@jichanbachan
Well, then maybe it's only exclusive to Isekai and fantasy titles, but most, if not all, the titles I've read are pretty much filled with errors on every single page, be it an actual spelling error, grammar mistakes, morphological nonsense, weird sentence structures, incorrect use of active/passive tense, weird and/or incorrect use of certain words ("existance" is something I see faaaar too many times, and it's not wrong per se, but it's not used in english to refer to something or someone; "humanity" is used far too many times in places where "mankind" and "man" should be used, like: "The son of man seems far too weak" or "mankind will perish at this rate"). I'm not even trying to be nitpicky, but all of the above happens far too often, though I must say it's not exclusive to your group's translations, though you put out more stuff and it's obviously more noticeable. Oh, and don't expect me to go out of my way to tell in your own discord, searching for your translators/PR/whatever what's wrong in one chapter or some other manga, that's your queue as scanlators to find what's going on, I'm already helping enough by telling you there's a problem, I could have simply ignored it and move on after all (meaning I care about you all, even if it's a little bit).
Member
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- Jan 18, 2018
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Nice allegorical tale about a couple in a relationship on the rocks. Going through a mid-life crisis so severe that Takumi has lost himself in a delusion and stopped seeing his wife, Yuu, as a human being. Despite her efforts over a year Yuu is still infantilized by her husband as he tries to start a small business like most mediocre men in a mid-life crisis. Most restaurants fail within the first year, will Takumi's last longer or will its failure only worsen his condition?
Aggregator gang
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@Twi
Thankfully, one of the other commenters (killercool) on the new chapter one thread had archived the link to the old chapter one thread; https://mangadex.org/thread/28162/
Apparently, replacing a chapter doesn't actually delete the old comments from physical storage, it just breaks the link from that chapter to the relevant comment thread.
So it's all still accessible.
Which is useful information to have in cases similar to this.
Now, how long that thread will remain in the archive, I don't know; I don't know if they have a cleaner routine that periodically checks to see if there are "orphaned" threads (threads that no longer have any source connecting to them), and then deletes them from physical storage. That would entirely depend upon whether they felt it was cost effective to do such a thing.
Thankfully, one of the other commenters (killercool) on the new chapter one thread had archived the link to the old chapter one thread; https://mangadex.org/thread/28162/
Apparently, replacing a chapter doesn't actually delete the old comments from physical storage, it just breaks the link from that chapter to the relevant comment thread.
So it's all still accessible.
Which is useful information to have in cases similar to this.
Now, how long that thread will remain in the archive, I don't know; I don't know if they have a cleaner routine that periodically checks to see if there are "orphaned" threads (threads that no longer have any source connecting to them), and then deletes them from physical storage. That would entirely depend upon whether they felt it was cost effective to do such a thing.
Aggregator gang
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@baka7kami
Psychosis rather than true Isekai?
That's an interesting concept. I hadn't considered that, but you are correct, that is a possibility.
It would be interesting to see which it actually is.
Of course, unless one is provided with an outside observer who is seeing all of this occurring in their original world, we'll never know that it isn't actually a true Isekai. Like the ending to Brazil, or An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge, it's only by being shown the reality that we know it was a delusion.
Or, in the case of The Giver, where Word of God is that it wasn't a delusion, which had been my presumption.
Psychosis rather than true Isekai?
That's an interesting concept. I hadn't considered that, but you are correct, that is a possibility.
It would be interesting to see which it actually is.
Of course, unless one is provided with an outside observer who is seeing all of this occurring in their original world, we'll never know that it isn't actually a true Isekai. Like the ending to Brazil, or An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge, it's only by being shown the reality that we know it was a delusion.
Or, in the case of The Giver, where Word of God is that it wasn't a delusion, which had been my presumption.
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Yikes. The LHT version is pretty bad. If the other group drops out I'll cry.
@Weasalopes
Thank you!
Thank you!
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@Antairan I think it depends on what context they're being paid really means here. If the group is paying translators out of pocket for a script I think that's fine, lots of people commission translations of all sorts of things (though given the volume of projects I doubt that's what's happening here considering the rates that typically get quoted by fan-translators). If they're asking readers to donate to help cover the cost of buying the tanks that they were planning to buy anyway, lots of scan groups also do that. If they're using donations to prioritize what they're going to work on I think that enters the territory of being not really in the spirit of scanlating. Not to mention it speaks volumes about how overstretched the group is if they're leaving series floundering for months at a time because it's not providing the "donation" revenue they want and it's not a more normal problem of waiting for their tanks to ship from Japan or something.
Anyway, the premise of the manga is interesting, but I'm not sure how long they can run this type of story without some sort of long term plot goal. Having the story revolve around the visitor de jour might get stale after a couple of dozen chapters.
Anyway, the premise of the manga is interesting, but I'm not sure how long they can run this type of story without some sort of long term plot goal. Having the story revolve around the visitor de jour might get stale after a couple of dozen chapters.
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@jichanbachan @hyrule13 I get the sense both groups have been working on it, Stan's (not the doing @ thing at him because I think he really just don't want the drama) group finished and released a chapter first. Then one of your fellow members told Stan that they are also working on it. While they are not happy, they are backing down as the easiest path the minimize drama (even though the act of backing down creates drama by itself). It seems they are pretty adamant on backing down - I sense even if you offer to let Croxx-over take the whole thing, they won't. So it means if this will be translated than will be by your translations.
Which I have to say, in terms of enjoyability, Croxx-over's translation is better. Just compare between literal first page of the story and the difference is apparent. Croxx-over's "Thank you again, dear passengers, for visiting our station. For the guests who are waiting on board their train, we courteously invite you to our waiting area." versus your translation "Thank you very much for using our service today! To all dear passengers, we have a waiting room where you can relax and enjoy your time" - both have the same essential meaning, but the difference in word choice and flow makes all the difference. The former sound very fitting to a classy and old-school train line that also act as a great "welcome" to the readers; the latter sounds more stilted and awkward, reminds me of an opening line to western Young Adult novel.
To pick another one, on page 6 is the translation choice "when I opened my eyes, the woman I loved" versus "when I opened my eyes, my precious someone". Again fair translations, but I have to pick "the women I loved" as the better translation choice. "The woman I loved" might be an overused lined, but because it is used so commonly, it carries a lot heartfelt meaning in these moments.
I could keep analyzing but I think I made my point. It's seems apparent that croxx-over is not going to keep translating. And the consensus is this means we now missing out on a better experience with knowledge what could have been. But since there's nothing that can be done, all I can I hope is ask you to have a look at croxx-over's version and try to figure the differences - figure out how the same manga translating from the same words have such a difference in the final product. That by doing that, perhaps we can still enjoy this manga a bit better than before. Please don't take what I said as an insult. I recognize translation and scanlation is hard work. I'm sure you burned plenty of energy, time, and effort to have a bunch of people read here for free. But let me try to humbly make this request. I hope you don't take it in the wrong way.
Which I have to say, in terms of enjoyability, Croxx-over's translation is better. Just compare between literal first page of the story and the difference is apparent. Croxx-over's "Thank you again, dear passengers, for visiting our station. For the guests who are waiting on board their train, we courteously invite you to our waiting area." versus your translation "Thank you very much for using our service today! To all dear passengers, we have a waiting room where you can relax and enjoy your time" - both have the same essential meaning, but the difference in word choice and flow makes all the difference. The former sound very fitting to a classy and old-school train line that also act as a great "welcome" to the readers; the latter sounds more stilted and awkward, reminds me of an opening line to western Young Adult novel.
To pick another one, on page 6 is the translation choice "when I opened my eyes, the woman I loved" versus "when I opened my eyes, my precious someone". Again fair translations, but I have to pick "the women I loved" as the better translation choice. "The woman I loved" might be an overused lined, but because it is used so commonly, it carries a lot heartfelt meaning in these moments.
I could keep analyzing but I think I made my point. It's seems apparent that croxx-over is not going to keep translating. And the consensus is this means we now missing out on a better experience with knowledge what could have been. But since there's nothing that can be done, all I can I hope is ask you to have a look at croxx-over's version and try to figure the differences - figure out how the same manga translating from the same words have such a difference in the final product. That by doing that, perhaps we can still enjoy this manga a bit better than before. Please don't take what I said as an insult. I recognize translation and scanlation is hard work. I'm sure you burned plenty of energy, time, and effort to have a bunch of people read here for free. But let me try to humbly make this request. I hope you don't take it in the wrong way.
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