Kanojo, Okarishimasu - Vol. 21 Ch. 178 - The Girlfriend and the Tiger’s Den (Part 3)

[kuronotsuki]

@Windi-kun nah dudeee, i just forgot

 

[Chiibihime]

@HalfCanadian

Yeeeeah, I won't ship Ruka with anyone...because I believe she is a terrible person who is NO WAY ready to be in a relationship; she's selfish as f**k

 

[WhisCalifa69]

To warm up for this tuesday

Spoiler

Chapters 179 and 180 will be the ultimate turning point of this series. 180 is stated to have a major development inside. This manga has been steamrolling at full throttle as of lately. Go for it, Kazuya.

PD: Ruka's trial is over and done for good as far as it can be concluded from spoilers.

 

[Strategistpro]

@startwindowsnormally
@HalfCanadian

Ruka has no chance, chapter 138, 169 and 171 made that clear. The author has also stated that the story is about kazuya and chizuru and that he believes they are the ideal couple. Plus kazuya has only ever loved chizuru and admitted that he can't bring himself to fall for anyone else including ruka who he has absolutely no feelings for. Your making yourself look like fools.

 

[arimareiji]

Sounds fun! Since everyone and their brother has been affirmatively declaring (without citations) that the author will definitely: 1) have MMC and FeMC end up as friends, 2) pronounce MMC and FeMC the perfect couple who will be in true luv forever, 3) pair Ruka with MMC, 4) shoot Ruka out of a cannon for being Evil, etc...

I affirmatively declare that

Spoiler

I'm actually the author and the MMC is secretly Kazuyuuki Ritoshita, the Mega-Space-Lord of the NTR Empire who will soon discover his true identity and powers then collect all the girls into a harem. Starting with FeMC, who's actually Third Princess Mizuhara-hime from the Royal House of planet Simp-le-Uke.

Remember when it happens, you heard it here first.

 

[S0viet_Noob]

@arimareiji

So you're the second to descend into madness....

 

[oderflamund]

@kuronotsuki Read chapter 127!

 

[arimareiji]

@S0viet_Noob
Yup. Nowadays, sanity is highly overrated.

 

[HalfCanadian]

@Strategistpro

I agree that the plot points towards Chizuru and Kazuya getting together. But from a realistic point of view, Ruka is the better option. Yes, Kaz is only interested in Chizuru, but he's stated on multiple occasions that Ruka is someone he'd be thrilled to be with. If Chizuru were to ever cut things off with him, I think he'd look at Ruka with a more serious mind that would lead to attraction and appreciation.

But the plot isn't leading to that.

 

[Strategistpro]

@HalfCanadian

Ruka isn't even the best option in my view point, she's actually the least compatible with him. I disagree with your stance that Kazuya and Chizuru are incompatible. Just because your careers don't line up doesn't mean you can't be together, otherwise high class business men and lawyers shouldn't be with janitors and shop clerks right? Because the live in different worlds. But we know this isn't the reality. Chapter 131 was all about how status and career don"t matter, and the main purpose of Umi is showing how Chizuru is choosing Kazuya over a hotshot like him. Sure they live in different worlds, but they love each other alot and support each other. On the other hand Ruka is extremely selfish. She only thinks about herself. MY heart, what I want to do. She has never considered kazuyas feelings. She blackmail, guilt trips and harrases him to get what she wants. It would never work out between them

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@Strategistpro
I believe you seem to have misinterpreted the conversation between @HalfCanadian and myself, neither of us have claimed that Ruka has a great chance, if any at all, of ending up with Kazuya. We've instead done a rather deep character and personality analysis on Chizuru, Ruka, and to a lesser extent, Sumi. Nobody here is arguing that Kazuya and Chizuru aren't likely to get together, so if you have something meaningful to add to the current conversation, I'd be glad to hear it.

Collapse for space:

Spoiler

If your main source of contention is that Ruka is selfish because she won't give up Kazuya, then I agree. That being said, if Ruka is completely selfish then how do explain her constantly making concessions for Kazuya, Chizuru, and their families, despite these concessions violating their original agreement, and exclusively acting to Ruka's own detriment? For examples, see Ch 32, Ch 36, Ch 92, and Ch 110, Ch 157, and Ch 169. Addressing your other grip concerning Ruka only considers her own feelings, see Ch 36, Ch 46, Ch 65, Ch 92, Ch 110, Ch 113, Ch 140, Ch 141 (happens twice as Ruka doesn't push Kazuya for for further physical contact, and is concerned about Kazuya's finances), Ch 142, Ch 157, Ch 168, Ch 169.

Other than than, if your worried that Ruka's feelings are just her infatuated, or addicted to the excitement, compare Chizuru's elevated heart rate after Kazuya rescued her, to Ruka's elevated heart rate as communicated via her backstory, as both are meant to convey love. If you need further proof, compare Chizuru's "doki doki" when she asked about Kazuya during the New Years Arc, to Ruka's "doki doki" after Kazuya's confrontation on the bridge with Ruka, just prior to her falling down the stairs.

Should you need context on any of the situations, I'd be more than happy to elaborate. As for Chizuru, I'd like you to name chapters where she was willing to act selflessly in opposition to her own interests, I'll give you two to start, Ch 3, Ch 48. Also could you list the amount of times Kazuya/Chizuru have gaslit Ruka into believing that nothing is going on between the two? I can list at least two examples.

My main point is that nobody in this series is anywhere near perfect (except Sumi). Choosing to ignore one persons sins to highlight another's is disingenuous, and makes you look bad. Do you have to like Ruka? No, but that being said you don't have to like somebody to admit that they are good at something. It's also really easy to put Chizuru on a pedestal and call her perfect as the series ignores any of her faults, and creepily elevates her to waifu of the week. However, a look at her character beyond skin deep reveals her to be a seriously flawed character, whose flaws are seriously ignored.

 

[arimareiji]

@startwindowsnormally My main point is that nobody in this series is anywhere near perfect (except Sumi). Choosing to ignore one persons sins to highlight another's is disingenuous, and makes you look bad. Do you have to like Ruka? No, but that being said you don't have to like somebody to admit that they are good at something. It's also really easy to put Chizuru on a pedestal and call her perfect as the series ignores any of her faults, and creepily elevates her to waifu of the week.

^ Worth repeating over and over, every time the Waifu Wars start.

Except in extreme circumstances, like Aerith Gainsborough or the aptly named Tanya the Evil: Your waifu isn't impossibly perfect, and her competitors aren't Satan. Playing "I didn't hear that" when people point out examples to the contrary, shouting them down and insulting them, etc makes the rest of us view your waifu's fandom (and by extension, your waifu) with disdain*. And the same holds for just about any character, which definitely includes self-insert MCs like Kazuya.

* - Unless maybe that's actually your goal? (collapsing for space)

Spoiler

Maybe you're like the guy who got butthurt that someone was drawing risque art of "his" "Twiley" (Twilight Sparkle) and famously made a laughingstock of himself by throwing a fit at them over it, and you want to have your waifu all to yourself by making people sick of her and her fans? If that's the case, go for it... whatever floats your boat.

 

[Strategistpro]

@startwindowsnormally

I will first address your thoughts on Chizuru, and then Ruka. I find that lately some people have been comparing the amount Kazuya as done for Chizuru in the last 50 or so chapters and then comparing it with the amount Chizuru has done for him, and saying that Chizuru is at fault. Those people forget how much Chizuru has done for kazuya in the past, specifically pre her grandma collapsing. And what did kazuya do for her back then? Barely anything. Do you see what the author is going for here? The first half was kazuyas time of need, time of struggle and thats when Chizuru went above and beyond for him(keeping in mind that to her at that time he was just a client who she has somewhat started developing feelings for). Now is Chizurus time of need, and kazuyas turn to help her. This is why it seems like Chizuru isn't doing as much for him, however this is the parallel the author is trying to achieve. She also consistently reminds kazuya that he isn't trash and belives in him. His own friends and family consistenly mock him and have little faith in him, but chizuru always had faith in him. If you don't think Chizuru has done anything selfless for kazuya you should reread the first 100 chapters. There's a reason kazuya refers to her as his "light". Some examples of chizurus selflessness to kazuya can be seen in how she tried to convince mami to give him a chance, all the times she agreed to meet kazuyas grandma and play the role of the perfect girfriend, the fact that she said she would lend him a ear when ever he needed and as kazuya puts it, her spending lots of time trying to cheer him up.

As for Ruka, she has sometimes been considerate for kazuyas feelings, but she still doesn't put him first. She knows he loves chizuru and refused to let him go, but instead blackmails him. Is that how you treat someone you love? No, you want the best for them and you want them to be happy. Kazuyas happy with chizuru yet ruka refuses to let him pursue her. She also continues to force kazuya into physical situations hes not comfortable with. Forced kiss, drugging him into having sex with her, using his promise to do anything to she asks to make him touch her. Furthermore if we are talking about gaslighting, first of all nothing actually did happen between kazuya and chizuru those times, they were just hanging out so there not lying there. Secondly Ruka always gaslights kazuya into thinking chizuru sees him as nothing but a client. This is one of his biggest self-esteem problems and ruka furthers it. Worst part is she knows that its not true.

Chizuru is certainly flawed, but she only ever wants to help kazuya and is also in a really screwed up situation. Meanwhile ruka is manipulative and toxic towards kazuya.

As for the heart rate stuff, Chizuru did not fall for kazuya after the incident at the sea, that was only the moment she started developing feelings for him. She fell for him cause of the type of person he is and how supportive he is. Ruka so far has only shown surface level attraction since she rarely actually does anything to show that she truly cares for him. Also to touch on your last point, I dont say all his about ruka because I don't like her, I dont like her because she is toxic and not a good character. The reason why I won't say she's a good fit for kazuya is because she isn't, she's the worst fit for him in my opinion.

 

[Bestgirl_Ruka]

How in the Frell is this almost a 400 comment chapter?

@Strategistpro

Can you separate your thoughts into sections by way of spoiler?

Spoiler

So my smooth Brain can process it piece by piece.

 

[Akua89]

Since some of us here in the comments are riding the spoilers bus, is there any sign of this story ending at some point?
Because I'm really just hoping to see that blue [End] tag next to a chapter release so I can see how it ends. That's literally the only interest I have left in this manga.

 

[KnightReads]

This chapter is proof that she'll dump Kazuya too🌚

 

[wiseeu]

please just end it reiji, please

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@Strategistpro
> "If you don't think Chizuru has done anything selfless for Kazuya you should reread the first 100 chapters."
You then go on to give me the two examples from the two chapter I gave you in my last post, and you didn't even mention the third time. It's almost like Chizuru is a very independent person, who has only acted outside her own interests three times, what a selfless character whose cold attitude towards Kazuya is completely justified.

Collapsed for space:

Spoiler

Chizuru's grand three moments where she acted outside of her own interests are as follows
1. Coming over to Kazuya's rescue when his grandmother came over and wanted to see Chizuru.
2. After Kazuya's grandmother left, she agreed to let Kazuya rent her at specific times for the sake of his grandmother
3. Pleading with Mami to reconsider her stance on leaving Kazuya
Why are these the only three times (to my recollection) that Chizuru has acted selflessly, and in opposition to her own interests? Because after Kazuya rescued her from drowning, she fell in love with him, and every decision since then has either involved in her acting in the interest of getting keeping her job a secret (see Chizuru forcing Kazuya into a relationship with Ruka, despite Kazuya giving a firm no), or Chizuru wanting to get closer to Kazuya (see the dream date or birthday arc). So much for Chizuru's "selflessness".

On Kazuya and Chizuru having never gaslit Ruka:
> "first of all nothing actually did happen between kazuya and chizuru those times"
First example, Ruka catches Kazuya cheating, Kazuya had previously told Ruka that he was "busy". Is caught on a date with Chizuru, confronts him about cheating, denies it and tells her that he is simply getting life advice from her.
Second example, Ruka catches Chizuru leaving Kazuya's apartment after they had a meeting discussing movie, and had dinner together. Your argument that "nothing actually did happen" almost holds up... but we get to see Kazuya's thoughts where he says that their relationship is changing, and wishing the moment could last. We can infer from Chizuru's "Fuuuuuu" after leaving, that she thinks the same. Yet when Ruka confronts them about their relationship changing, Chizuru tells Ruka that all is fine, and they are no closer than six months ago, and use the movie as an alibi.

Yes it is true Ruka is guilty of gaslighting Kazuya in Ch 157, and I find that detestable. However, I choose not to turn a blind eye to Chizuru and Kazuya's misdeeds, nor will I try and excuse any of their deeds. While we're at it, you brought up Ruka drugging Kazuya in a attempt to have sex with him. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don't know that alcohol cooks out the food during the cooking process, in fact it takes a very low temperature to start cooking out alcohol, making it practically impossible for Ruka to have drugged Kazuya unless sufficient alcohol and concentration of alcohol was used.
As for the sex part, I believe that sex was a tertiary objective. Why? Because Ruka never goes about the same way twice, more on that later. Ruka already offered to have sex with Kazuya, and was refused. Now she had a new method, the ultimate girlfriend/housewife method personally tailored for Kazuya, come home from work, cook dinner for him, relax and watch a movie, and possibly have sex. Why else would she have forgotten about the condom if that was her primary objective? To add to that, why would she walk away once Kazuya told her that he was moments away from giving in to his desires and sleeping with her?

Ruka does greatly consider Kazuya and his feelings, and wants him to be happy, however we also know she has an impulse problem that, like her toxicity, she has been making great strides to address and correct. Just look at the hot springs arc. Ruka says she wants to go to a hot springs, Kazuya doesn't say no, but recommends a place nearby. Ruka considers Kazuya first, and agrees to his request, despite it only, once again, acting to her own detriment.
> "[If you love somebody] you want the best for them and you want them to be happy."
Yes, but it's not easy. I dare say I bet you've hurt someone you love, does that mean you don't love them? No, of course not. Be it negligence, or selfishness, you didn't intend to hurt that person, and you still very much love them.

Now let's turn to Chizuru. does she love Kazuya? Yes. Does she want the best for him? Yes. Does she want him to be happy? Yes. Wants to help Kazuya in his screwed up circumstance? Yes! Does she act? No. How is it okay for Chizuru to know that she could single handedly solve the Ruka problem, make Kazuya and the Kinoshita family happy, all by accepting her feelings for Kazuya and becoming his girlfriend, yet she refuses to act? She is leading Kazuya on, and has been for awhile, she knows Kazuya likes her, but for no reason what-so-ever, she chooses not to reciprocate. She even goes out of her way to lower Kazuya's self esteem, like when she ignores him in the hallway just a few chapters prior.

Going even further, Chizuru actively sabotages Kazuya's growth, and cripples his mental health and emotions. Let's take a look at a few examples of how she does this, "Tell your grandma we broke-up; Don't tell you grandma we broke-up / Don't go out with Ruka; Go out with Ruka / Do you love me?; Of course you don't love me, your only a client. Definitely a perfectly healthy line of communication and the embodiment of a non-toxic relationship. 174 chapters in and she answers for him, and later ducks his confession, talk about someone hurting his self-esteem. Let's not forget that it was Kazuya who manipulated Chizuru into being his "girlfriend" in the first place.

This brings be back to Ruka. For all of Ruka's toxic actions and behaviors, at least we see that Kazuya and her communicate on a level that each other understands. Ruka directly asks for sex, Kazuya says no, Ruka understands, doesn't go that route again. Ruka wants to stay the night and is open to anything that might happen, Kazuya communicates that he is uncomfortable with this, Ruka understands, does not push sex or a sleepover in any regard again. This is not to excuse Ruka's actions, but to point out that she forces Kazuya to grow by making him confront parts of himself that are needing attention. Kazuya grows as a character from these interactions, and sets boundaries, Ruka recognizes and respects these boundaries for the most part, with the exception being the kiss (sexual assault), and from this scenario, Ruka learns that she must do even better to avoid hurting Kazuya in the future. Chizuru can't even communicate to Kazuya a simple question without either indirectly, or directly answering it for him. Even beyond this, Kazuya and Chizuru just communicate in different ways. For Kazuya, having a bouquet of flowers and chocolates is his way of saying "I love you." For Chizuru, her taking you to batting practice is her way of saying "I love you." Neither of them understand each other, and if you have a hard time just communicating to each other that you love each other, imagine how hard it will be to communicate that something is wrong in a relationship. A long term relationship between the two of them wouldn't last.

 

[Bestgirl_Ruka]

@Strategistpro

Chizuru is doing so much for MC but still makes him pay for their weekly dates?

🤣
She is just tolerating his ass until the money runs out.

 

[jmslln2004]

Ok, i picked #4 and i was glad it was mizuhara :3