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GODDDDD NOW IM SADDDDD
Kusuriya no Hitorigoto - Vol. 8 Ch. 37 - Balsam and Wood Sorrel (Part 1)
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@Official229
Yours: "is that, you cannot be evil for doing x, if the society in that time and place does not deem it to be evil."
Mine: "no, you can"
This is the point of contention. That's not some unstated assumptions, that's something that was explicitely said. Your posts following the one where you stated this position aren't about trying to figure out the inclarity in other people's position, they were about pretending that the entire argument was about something else all along. You do it in your second post, where you "clarify" that you were "simply trying to tell [me] that the reason they became like that, isn't necessarily because they were born like that, or because they one day decided to become like that" to make it seem like me and/or other people in the thread were asserting the inherent evil in people, even though nothing of that sort have been said or implied. I corrected you, but you still carried on with that assumption to your third post, where you explicitely said the phrase "inherently evil" the first time. You were corrected again and yet you expect me to believe that, somehow, you "assumed" that my position has no relation to things I actually said? I might be dumb enough to spend my time arguing with dumb opinions on the internet, but I'm not that dumb.
Dude. You were corrected. Repeatedly. You just chose to ignore all the corrections. But sure, I'll humor you again
Wrong. Here's the actual clashing assumptions:
Yours: "is that, you cannot be evil for doing x, if the society in that time and place does not deem it to be evil."
Mine: "no, you can"
This is the point of contention. That's not some unstated assumptions, that's something that was explicitely said. Your posts following the one where you stated this position aren't about trying to figure out the inclarity in other people's position, they were about pretending that the entire argument was about something else all along. You do it in your second post, where you "clarify" that you were "simply trying to tell [me] that the reason they became like that, isn't necessarily because they were born like that, or because they one day decided to become like that" to make it seem like me and/or other people in the thread were asserting the inherent evil in people, even though nothing of that sort have been said or implied. I corrected you, but you still carried on with that assumption to your third post, where you explicitely said the phrase "inherently evil" the first time. You were corrected again and yet you expect me to believe that, somehow, you "assumed" that my position has no relation to things I actually said? I might be dumb enough to spend my time arguing with dumb opinions on the internet, but I'm not that dumb.
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Speaking of the Official Adaptation, the LN Adaptation looks like it will be released on February 23rd
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@Artemi
No, that's not how logic works. What you are doing right now is a fallacy called "denying the antecedent". See more here: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Denying_the_antecedent
No, that's not how logic works. What you are doing right now is a fallacy called "denying the antecedent". See more here: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Denying_the_antecedent
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Was that the lady we saw in a previous chapter? Can someone explain "redeeming" and what happened to the woman afterwards? What was up with the finger
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@Rgal @Official229
welp, since I have time to kill I gotta say this...
Rgal, you may have took the argument a bit too personal, and you should also expect that the person may have just been misinterpretting your messages all along. (I'm probably gonna be missing a major part of what you're defending, but...) Also the idea of such thing, like Official229 said, is a bit of a social norm of the time, and like you know with most other cultures, people didn't really care much about their women, so I think his statement can still validate somethings.
Official229, to steelman your argument, I suggest you avoiding the usage of the word "Good" or "Evil" despite it being a
debate/argument about morality, it's still pretty subjective and based on the culture like you've said.
And to conclude all of that, I'll have to also say that, although the idea of inherited evils may have existed, like Official229 and I have said (in the argument I've just written), in reality morality is actually really subjective. (However, I would not bring out a certain wellknown ones, for I do not wish to offend a lot of people)
Since I've just entered the whole argument I may have gotten many points and standings wrong, and I myself am not really familiar with arguments relating to morality, so feel free to correct me.
welp, since I have time to kill I gotta say this...
Rgal, you may have took the argument a bit too personal, and you should also expect that the person may have just been misinterpretting your messages all along. (I'm probably gonna be missing a major part of what you're defending, but...) Also the idea of such thing, like Official229 said, is a bit of a social norm of the time, and like you know with most other cultures, people didn't really care much about their women, so I think his statement can still validate somethings.
Official229, to steelman your argument, I suggest you avoiding the usage of the word "Good" or "Evil" despite it being a
debate/argument about morality, it's still pretty subjective and based on the culture like you've said.And to conclude all of that, I'll have to also say that, although the idea of inherited evils may have existed, like Official229 and I have said (in the argument I've just written), in reality morality is actually really subjective. (However, I would not bring out a certain wellknown ones, for I do not wish to offend a lot of people)
Since I've just entered the whole argument I may have gotten many points and standings wrong, and I myself am not really familiar with arguments relating to morality, so feel free to correct me.
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Life is suffering
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@LucidDayDreamer Redeeming is the act of buying a courtesan and taking them as a wife or mistress or in the case of Mao Mao as a maid in hopes of getting you to like her enough to take her as a wife. You are effectively redeeming them of their debt in exchange for them becoming your lover.
If you are referring to Chapter 29 that is in all likelihood Feng Shen, She became pregnant by her own choice in hopes of reducing her redeeming price so he could afford it. However shortly after his father sent him to the other end of the country and while he did send a letter explaining the situation to her, perhaps not clearly, she thought it was just an excuse and thought he abandoned her. Afterwards because her value dropped she had to take worse and worse clientele to make ends meet, eventually contracting syphilis and ending up in the situation we saw. Because she thought he'd abandoned her she sent him her pinkie as a way of showing her love and anger.
She also tried to do so to Mao Mao but was stopped, though not before dealing permanent damage.
If you are referring to Chapter 29 that is in all likelihood Feng Shen, She became pregnant by her own choice in hopes of reducing her redeeming price so he could afford it. However shortly after his father sent him to the other end of the country and while he did send a letter explaining the situation to her, perhaps not clearly, she thought it was just an excuse and thought he abandoned her. Afterwards because her value dropped she had to take worse and worse clientele to make ends meet, eventually contracting syphilis and ending up in the situation we saw. Because she thought he'd abandoned her she sent him her pinkie as a way of showing her love and anger.
She also tried to do so to Mao Mao but was stopped, though not before dealing permanent damage.
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@Rgal: But it is exactly your statement?
"Yours: "is that, you cannot be evil for doing x, if the society in that time and place does not deem it to be evil."
Mine: "no, you can""
So yours is: One can be evil for doing x, even if the society in that time and place does not deem it to be evil.
So by that logic you should consider yourself to be evil, because you have no way of knowing what deed you're currently doing will be found to always have been evil in the future.
"Yours: "is that, you cannot be evil for doing x, if the society in that time and place does not deem it to be evil."
Mine: "no, you can""
So yours is: One can be evil for doing x, even if the society in that time and place does not deem it to be evil.
So by that logic you should consider yourself to be evil, because you have no way of knowing what deed you're currently doing will be found to always have been evil in the future.
@simplechild
Oh please.
Well, first, your are right they aren't, techically, slaves. They are in debt bondage, and there are significant differences between that and slaves.
But that said... pretending that those girls are free, or that they choose to get their livehood by working as courtesans, is hilariously wrong.
Those girls were sold to the brothel when they where kids, saddled with debt (They have to pay for basically everything, including their food and clothes, and makeup, and "training") then forced to work as prostitutes to pay that debt (And since they aren't educated to do anything else, they don't have any skills that would allow them to do anything else!)
Oh please.
Well, first, your are right they aren't, techically, slaves. They are in debt bondage, and there are significant differences between that and slaves.
But that said... pretending that those girls are free, or that they choose to get their livehood by working as courtesans, is hilariously wrong.
Those girls were sold to the brothel when they where kids, saddled with debt (They have to pay for basically everything, including their food and clothes, and makeup, and "training") then forced to work as prostitutes to pay that debt (And since they aren't educated to do anything else, they don't have any skills that would allow them to do anything else!)
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@Artemi
"Animals can't be dogs"
"no they can"
"So by your logic all animals are dogs?"
—your argument in a nutshell.
Just because one can be evil for doing X, doesn't mean they must be evil for doing X (at least not for every X). It's in the article I linked. It isn't even long.
Consider actually reading what other people wrote before responging, lest you respond to imaginary arguments nobody made.
"Animals can't be dogs"
"no they can"
"So by your logic all animals are dogs?"
—your argument in a nutshell.
Just because one can be evil for doing X, doesn't mean they must be evil for doing X (at least not for every X). It's in the article I linked. It isn't even long.
Consider actually reading what other people wrote before responging, lest you respond to imaginary arguments nobody made.
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@Lampsforsale
None of what you said addressed the questions I had. What you said were things I already understood - but thanks for the condescension nevertheless.
Since you just reiterated some things that were shown in the chapter, I'm not sure what is there to discuss.
Have a good day.
None of what you said addressed the questions I had. What you said were things I already understood - but thanks for the condescension nevertheless.
Since you just reiterated some things that were shown in the chapter, I'm not sure what is there to discuss.
Have a good day.
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@Artemi
Right. You said a thing that makes no sense, as we already established. The first part does not follow from the second despite you implying that it does. That's a non sequitur: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Non_sequitur
In fact, why don't you read more articles there? You clearly need it.
Right. You said a thing that makes no sense, as we already established. The first part does not follow from the second despite you implying that it does. That's a non sequitur: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Non_sequitur
In fact, why don't you read more articles there? You clearly need it.
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