Machikado Mazoku - Vol. 4 Ch. 52 - Ritual of the Dark Night! The Demon’s New Friend!!

[Reiba1925]

@BugDemon
"I'm still worried about the fact that absolutely nobody questions how Ogura got Sakura's notes. Not even Momo cares in the slightest."

I assume it was Momo who gave her those notes. It has already been shown that she and Ogura have had meetings off-screen. It wouldn't be strange that in one of those meetings Momo had handed her the notes.

 

[1412]

what a great closing chapter for Volume 4, the author is pretty genius and the stories are woven so well.

Some facts established coming together in this chapter:
The concept to create a magical clay-doll as vessel also already established in the previous Volume by Ogura
Ogura that hide in the ceiling
Anri's family runs butcher shop is established in vol 1 where Shamiko have a part-time job
Rico that can cook magic imbued cuisine and the fact that Master is a demon animal
Festival Comite member that draw a banner for their festival, now helping drawing magical circle
Shamiko's initiative to bring back the soil from Chiyoda Spring as the base ingredient to create the vessel
Even that out-of-place cockroach chapter now serves a purpose as foreshadow that Shamiko gonna activate magic circle in a grander scale

Now I have a hunch that Ogura's drawing in the wall will be referenced later in the future

 

[Loona_Roses]

So Momo already admitted Shamiko seduced her into being a subordinate. Back when Ryo found out about them all (she admitted to Shamiko that it wasn't really a lie).
Ogura pretty much is happy following Shamiko out of personal reasons.
Mikan seems to have now accepted Shamiko as the boss, after this incident. She also did rely on Shamiko for most help already.
Anri has been wanting to following Shamiko since before she awakened demon powers.
I wonder if the cafe people will formally bow down to her too. I kinda feel like Lico already respects Shamiko more as a boss than Shirosawa.
And Shirosawa does bow down to enforcer Momo.

Wait a minute, if Momo is an enforcer.

Shamiko is a Yakuza boss! Think about it, the gang has drug production (Ogura and Lico), a legit business to act as a front, and provide income. They distribute "mana infused" food, that makes people feel good and forget their worries. They beat down people who step out of line on their turf. They have magic seals (gang symbols) on all their properties. All they need to do now is start charging protection money. Which for all we know Momo already does.

 

[Eplayer]

i wish i have the ability to unread. that credit page lol

 

[thofheinz]

Anri can't get enough of Mikan. Who can blame her?

Anri is such a sweetheart under the sass. And those two athletic festival kids coming on short notice... What a team.

By the way, Shamiko, did you see Momo's beautiful smile, just then? You worked so hard on it for so long. Enjoy it while it's here.

 

[agronox]

this is a very good manga

 

[KanadeChan]

Shamiko : I think I get you.

Is this why Shamiko always get excited when she saw Momo in trouble?

 

[nyanpass]

great chapter

 

[BugDemon]

@Reiba1925
No. In one chapter Ogura just shows up with the notes and Momo says "Oh so that's where Sis' notes went. I couldn't make sense of them."
Ogura just stole them and Momo didn't care.

@Loona_Roses
I know you are joking and all, but some people actually believe that, so I'll debunk it anyway.
Momo = She doesn't see Shamiko as the boss. I think people take her way too literally. The point Momo is making is that she trusts Shamiko and feels drawn to her. She thinks Shamiko's chocies are (usually) good-natured and worth accepting. What she is actually saying is metaphorical. "I guess that more or less is true" when Ryo asks whether Momo is her subordinate is not meant as literally already being her vassal or something like that. Momo sees herself as being a partner for Shamiko more than Shamiko does, because Shamiko is stuck on "enemies". In this very chapter you can see that Momo uses the boss talk jokingly, but also as encouragement. She very much respects Shamiko and wants to boost her self-confidence.
Ogura = She stalks her for personal gain. She doesn't treat her like a boss. If Momo asks her to do something she will do it too. If literally anyone asked her to do something for them as long as it furthers her experiments she will do it. She never acknowledges Shamiko as a superior.
Mikan = Similar to Momo, she does not see Shamiko as a boss, she just goes with the flow. She told Ugallu that Shamiko was the boss, because she is the reason Ugallu even exists outside Mikan's heart right now. She was the "organizer" more or less, so that makes her the leader of the operation (despite the fact that Ogura and Momo were far more influential and valuable in this situation). Remember how Momo made her say she is Shamiko's underling back during the popsicle raep incident? Whenever Mikan refers to her as a follower of Shamiko's she is making a mischievous reference to that. "I am your subordinate remember~? wink" She is playfully encouraging Shamiko, much like Momo does.
Anri = I think everyone knows that's one heck of a stretch. Anri goes at her own pace and interacts with everyone. She doesn't follow Shamiko, she just meddles in whatever piques her interest.
Riko = Please. Riko's subservient to literally noone. She just loves messing with people, including Shamiko. She actually has a much larger interest in Momo.
Shirozawa = Literally her boss and treats her like a inexperienced girl that still needs to learn a lot. Also likes exploiting her, the opposite of a underling.

The Yakuza thing is funny though. Made me chuckle.

@KanadeChan
That... literally doesn't happen. Shamiko is never excited when Momo is in trouble. She sometimes gets excited about stuff that happens while Momo is in trouble, but she has never shown a single sign of excitement towards Momo's bad luck or being bullied.
I already explained the "many faces of your lover" meaning behind those words.

 

[ngkn92]

100 millions yen is 21,341.8 million Vietnam Dong in case you want to know.

 

[faruq9854]

 

[Reiba1925]

@BugDemon
I see. sorry, I didn't remembered that 😅.

talking about something else... And at the risk of starting a long discussion about it ...

On the matter of Momo considering Shamiko her boss, Momo didn't deny Ugallo that Shamiko was her boss when she asked her https://www.mangadex.cc/chapter/775923/6 and she affirm that while in her Fallen form is Shamiko's vassal https://www.mangadex.cc/chapter/780382/7 ("I'm still your vassal, Shamiko. A tiny bit of the fall to darkness drug's effects remain") So it seems that Momo truly considers shamiko to be her boss, at least when she is in her fallen form.

 

[BugDemon]

@Reiba1925

("I'm still your vassal, Shamiko. A tiny bit of the fall to darkness drug's effects remain") So it seems that Momo truly considers shamiko to be her boss, at least when she is in her fallen form.

This is a simple factual statement, not an admission of submission. Momo mentally becomes Shamiko's vassal when she falls, due to the contract she made back when she saved Shamiko from her nightmares. That link is there with or without her consent, until she chooses to make a new contract with anyone else. Physically she is not Shamiko's vassal of course.

I will repeat this only one more time. Becoming a vassal is only a submission if the vassal deems it so. Otherwise it's more like a lifelink. Shamiko will never be Momo's boss, unless she specifically wants that and I sure as hell hope Ito won't do that. They are best when they are equal partners.

 

[Reiba1925]

@BugDemon
"Momo mentally becomes Shamiko's vassal when she falls, due to the contract she made back when she saved Shamiko from her nightmares. That link is there with or without her consent, until she chooses to make a new contract with anyone else."

Sorry, what? Where did you get all that? We were never told that anywhere in the manga (if my memory is failing me again, please give me a link to the moment we were told that.). In fact, Lillith said that becoming a vassal didn't produce any personality alteration. https://s6.mkklcdnv6.com/mangakakalot/g1/gk919264/vol2_chapter_26_conveying_thoughts_demon_takes_a_new_step/12.jpg

"Physically she is not Shamiko's vassal of course."
And I never said it was. Reread the line you quoted "it seems that Momo truly considers shamiko to be her boss". I said that Momo CONSIDERS that Shamiko is her boss, or in other words, that Momo see Shamiko as her boss in a sense of personal belief / mentality. As you also said before but without the part of Mental alterations.

"Shamiko will never be Momo's boss, unless she specifically wants that and I sure as hell hope Ito won't do that. They are best when they are equal partners."
You know ... between this and other things I am beginning to realize that you are a sniper ...

Well, whatever. On a separate note, I personally don't believe that a Vassal / master relationship cannot show both parts as equals.

 

[BugDemon]

@Reiba1925
The better question is what the heck you are on about. What has personality alteration to do with anything? As usual, you really fail at understanding what I say for absolutely no reason. I never said anything about it.
I guess what tripped you up (somehow) is me saying Momo mentally becomes Shamiko's vassal when she falls to darkness? This has been established since the first time she fell. She is Shamiko's dependent only in mind, because she doesnt allow her body to fall. Only her core gets corrupted. She flips between her Light Clan contract and her contract with Shamiko. The drug allows her to stay stable without physically falling or becoming Shamiko's vassal, but to dream dive she needs to be Shamiko's vassal mentally.

I already made quite clear why Momo does not consider Shamiko her boss.

I have no idea what you mean by sniper, but you tend to have a lot of weird ideas, so I have a hard time caring.

 

[Reiba1925]

@BugDemon

Yes. It seems that this will end up being a long discussion 😅.

before of nothing, I thought you were saying that in its fallen form Momo was mentally programmed to think of Shamiko as her master 😅. The origin of my confusion was that you said that Momo is mentally Shamiko's vassal when you should have said spiritually. When Momo is in her fallen form, she does not become the vassal of Shamiko in mind, she becomes the vassal of Shamiko in spirit. You are confusing mind with spirit. And what they established from the beginning was that Momo became elementally dark in soul, and, therefore, Shamiko's vassal in spirit https://s6.mkklcdnv6.com/mangakakalot/g1/gk919264/vol3_chapter_39/3.jpg
https://s6.mkklcdnv6.com/mangakakalot/g1/gk919264/vol4_chapter_399_volume_4_introduction/3.jpg
https://s5.mangadex.org/data/f36ce9d177612a076e287a34171e1f9b/x8.png
and no, mind and spirit are not the same thing.

"I already made quite clear why Momo does not consider Shamiko her boss."
… No. Nothing you said refutes that Momo considering Shamiko her boss. And, in fact, you are ignoring the things that indicate that Momo does consider Shamiko her boss, at least when she is in her fallen form.
"I have no idea what you mean by sniper"
Oh I'm sorry. I meant this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_sharpshooter_fallacy maybe if I had said sharpshooter instead of sniper it would have been more obvious ...

 

[agronox]

when you complete a fetch quest with shit you already have in your inventory

 

[BugDemon]

@Reiba1925
No I did not have to say spiritually. Mind and spirit are the same thing. Everything about Lilith clan revolves around mind powers in the first place and that's why Momo's soul has to be aligned with darkness even if her body isnt.
Basically you are just trying to use semantics to excuse your misunderstanding.

Nothing indicates she considers her a boss in any form.

If that is what you are insinuating, then sorry to say this, the sharpshooter fallacy applies far more to you. I've actually been telling you this for ages. Why is it that people who have a certain issue always project it onto others? You are the one constantly seeing patterns and connections where there arent any and ignore all evidence to the contrary.

 

[Reiba1925]

@BugDemon
“No I did not have to say spiritually. Mind and spirit are the same thing. Everything about Lilith clan revolves around mind powers in the first place and that's why Momo's soul has to be aligned with darkness even if her body isnt.
Basically you are just trying to use semantics to excuse your misunderstanding. ”
Yes, you should have said "spiritually" because what changes (as you just said) is the spirit, not the mind. What the powers of the Lillth clan consist of, or why there is a change is irrelevant for say in what sense Momo is a vassal. What will determine in what sense she is a vassal is that parts of she underwent a transformation. Don't deviate from the point. For a reason in all the examples that I linked before, Momo was called a vassal in spirit and not a vassal in mind, and it is because precisely what underwent a transformation was her soul, not her psyche (in which case, if it would be correct to say that it is a vassal in mind).
And No. I wasn't trying to justify why I got confused, I was explaining why I got confused (and incidentally, pointing out that you made a mistake by saying "Momo is Shamiko's vassal in mind"). I never denied that confusing myself was my fault, and if you think I did, well, I can fix that 😄. It was my fault that I was confused about what you were talking about. It was stupid, it was my responsibility, and that doesn't change no matter what the reason or the context was. I admit it.
Ah. And you can accuse me of playing of semantics as much as you want (I am the first to admit that I tend to focus a lot on the literal meaning of things and not so much on their practical use), that doesn't change the veracity of what I am saying .

"Nothing indicates she considers her a boss in any form."
You're right. It's not as like there was a time when Momo honestly admitted that Shamiko was her boss or something... https://www.mangadex.cc/chapter/775923/6 Sarcasm aside (I couldn't help it, I'm sorry), this is one of the reasons I said you're committing a Texas sharpshooter fallacy. I Mentioned this scene before and you ignored it completely (and it's not the first time). If you think that scene proves nothing for some reason or that I am misinterpreting it in some way, then, please tell me why (I mean it, tell me why, don't ignore it). You did it before with the other example I gave, why do you ignore this example?

"If that is what you are insinuating,"
I was. I was insinuating it. I stoped insinuating at the moment I put that link and explain what I meant. At this point, I am telling you directly.

"then sorry to say this, the sharpshooter fallacy applies far more to you. I've actually been telling you this for ages. Why is it that people who have a certain issue always project it onto others? You are the one constantly seeing patterns and connections where there arent any and ignore all evidence to the contrary."
Now I'm curious (I'm not kidding)... According to you, what are the evidences that I have ignored? And what are the patterns I've invented? I ask sincerely.

 

[Ichigo69]

>Sacred Vein
You guys know there's an actual term for this. It's a Ley Line. Could you please correct this.