Ori no Naka - Ch. 28 - Deeper, Darker

[soda_bunny]

Not an error.
She values people who don't leave her no matter what versus people who say they love her, because saying you love someone is shallow, anyone can say that, but staying with someone through thick and thin, that's a much more daunting task for a woman like her.

You got it. Being aware of an issue and actually having the internal resources to course-correct are entirely different things. She literally would need to be in some kind of residential rehab facility to essentially detox from the chemical addiction and fear responses she has to healthy relationships.

And I didn't know about the apology money law! I wonder if it's an unspoken additional reason for why Yumezora feels even more tied down.

 

[soda_bunny]

mortal kombat music begins

Unfortunately, Gomi doesn't understand that now his affair with Yumezora isn't love at all. He just wanted to fuck. Sometimes, while fucking, some connection is forming but love?

Moyupu beated off the ass of ugly bastard's acquaintance.

Yumezora wanted it to be more, but she is so cynical and sadly correct that Gomi has been fetishizing her from the start. It would be pulling teeth to prove to her that he is a safe person now.

It's a shame, because if either one of them were healthier it could work! It might even still work, but Gomi would have to be okay calling the cops, insisting she get treatment and start genuinely caring about her as a person.
I think he is capable of that, judging by how he has made attempts to acknowledge his shortcomings, but it would still be a miracle to see him draw that boundary!

 

[danbellucci]

We've been in Gomi's head and that's not the case? He's also been pushing for an actual relationship the whole time, if he were in it only for the sex he would have settled for the fwb arrangement without a care instead of wishing for more

Exactly. Some people pathologise all male libido and think that because a man really wants to have sex with a woman therefore he doesn't love her or is fetishising her. This is incorrect and shows almost total lack of understanding of male psychology.

 

[pink_rabbit]

We've been in Gomi's head and that's not the case? He's also been pushing for an actual relationship the whole time, if he were in it only for the sex he would have settled for the fwb arrangement without a care instead of wishing for more

What's the evidence for this? As far as we know , when he said that he loved Yumezora the first time he had every intention to marry her.
If all he wanted was someone to fuck then I'd expect to either see him think something like "I can't wait to fuck her for a while then bounce" or become noticeably less interested and invested in yumezora after first having sex with her.

We have LITERALLY seen how Gomi confuses love and lust. The fact that both of you can't see that shows to me that you both don't know either. Love is not about only sex. Love is about seeing their worst and still wanting to be with them. Gomi is seeing her WORST and has to have the choice to be with her or not.

Kuroko is so broken that men have literally seen her worst and only value the fact she sleeps with them. Can you blame her for questioning Gomi? This is a dude who was sniffing out her pads. Not once did he say sorry for doing that. If it was truly love then he would be doing that.

 

[mrboxeater]

This manga has no brakes but somehow the progression and pacing doesnt feel like shit wow.

 

[Friendly-Sentence710]

A gentleman like conversation is coming obviously

an intellectual discussion between equals is impending.

Yo we cannot save her guys, best we can do is lock her up forever

Don't kinkshame.

 

[danbellucci]

We have LITERALLY seen how Gomi confuses love and lust.

chapter and page? maybe I forgot.
There needs to be some firm evidence of him not caring for Yumezora's wellbeing or wanting nothing from her except sex in order to justify the claim that when he declared his love he didn't actually want to get together with her seriously with intent to marry.

Love is about seeing their worst and still wanting to be with them.

There are plenty of loving couples who haven't seen their spouse at their worst. e.g. people who met their future-wife after returning from war, people who met their future wife after leaving prison. Anyone who met their future spouse after making a significant positive change in himself or herself.
So it doesn't seem like seeing someone at their worst is a necessary condition for loving someone.

This is a dude who was sniffing out her pads. Not once did he say sorry for doing that. If it was truly love then he would be doing that.

He actually did in chapter 12 page 3 , although she interrupted him and quickly after that told him that she was relieved when she saw him jerk off with her pads.

 

[77BLc9JwJGpLVARkamJx]

They can fix her.Tag team soon

 

[danbellucci]

They can fix her.Tag team soon

He asks Gomi to be their bull and beat up Nakusu because he refused

 

[EonNite]

This manga always gives me such nasty anxiety. And this chapter is so much more of that.

 

[pink_rabbit]

chapter and page? maybe I forgot.
There needs to be some firm evidence of him not caring for Yumezora's wellbeing or wanting nothing from her except sex in order to justify the claim that when he declared his love he didn't actually want to get together with her seriously with intent to marry.

You don't need to see a page of him actively saying that. Do you lack that much media literacy? It's obvious by how he was talking about brothels and having sex with Kuroko. I think he cares for her but he doesn't LOVE her. If he did love her then he would be there for her like not having sex and talking things out with her. He admitted he confuses love and lust. Gomi is the type to not have sex without feelings. He confuses sex with love.

I don't hate Gomi, nor hate Kuroko. I feel bad for them both. I just wish that more readers understood that both of them have their own troubles instead of blindly saying Kuroko 1000% at fault while ignoring Gomi's crimes.

There are plenty of loving couples who haven't seen their spouse at their worst. e.g. people who met their future-wife after returning from war, people who met their future wife after leaving prison. Anyone who met their future spouse after making a significant positive change in himself or herself.
So it doesn't seem like seeing someone at their worst is a necessary condition for loving someone.

Yes and those who came back from war often have PTSD and have high divorce rates. Why? They haven't talked to their spouses about what happened in the war. Plus, they had therapy. Sadly, Japan is known for looking down on those who see a psychologist.

The ones I've met that are together with someone in prison knows their past and still loves them. When loving someone, they know your past and what you did and still decide to love you. They make you want to be a better person too. Gomi has a chance right now if he wants to be a better person or dump Kuroko when things look tough.

He actually did in chapter 12 page 3 , although she interrupted him and quickly after that told him that she was relieved when she saw him jerk off with her pads.

Yes, because he was caught. He didn't do it from the bottom of his heart. He only said sorry when it evidence was shown

 

[ultrabread]

naw they're going to throw hands no matter what Gomi says, even if they weren't having an affair he'd still have a fight. imho he should fight dirty but take that shit outside at least, its an office not a fight club lol. That said I think the pent up frustration might pull through: Gomi is surprisingly fit because of the physical labor job vs Motoyuki who like peaked at high school, works at a desk and gets all his physical exercise from beating women. Maybe in a fair fight Motoyuki might have an advantage but a street fight its more about how creative, vicious and how much raw power you have; more so than any techniques. That said its always GGs if a grappler gets a hold of you unless you reach for a blunt object in time.

My guess would be that despite the build up, Gomi wins the fight but mostly due to some luck. Or they try to talk it out like adults but then Gomi bonks the other guy for domestic abuse. Either way the ugly bastard guy lights the fucking office on fire because he lost his mind finally.

 

[Eighty-six]

Gomi has a chance right now if he wants to be a better person or dump Kuroko when things look tough.

de--duh--what?

Gomi is about to be folded into origami.

This isn't even the first time she's had this happen to another person-- she's run this game before with nearly the exact same kind of person. She knew something like this was liable to happen, and didn't even bother to warn him herself.

Forget what you were saying before about how Kuroko can only fight these demons by herself and she has to make the choice to take Gomi's hand and be helped. You keep talking like this is the kind of abnormal situation with someone that can't entirely control their own life because they have a grab bag of mental disorders and history of parental abuse, like this is Asper Girl-- not a situation with a misanthrope completely cognizant of their actions that jeopardize the safety of everyone including themselves, that will still leverage the concept of "love" that they simultaneously disparage against people she knows don't share that attitude.

Gomi might not even have the chance to become a "better person", and dumping Kuroko now would not mean he's a "bad person". This is not a man with the facilities to deal with this kind of mess-- this man started this story jacking off to rape doujins and huffing used sanitary pads, and now he's about go a round with someone who punches like the fate of the world rests on his shoulders. And for what? Having an affair with a woman who's become adept at rationalizing staying with a man who routinely rapes and batters her, that still sought out a sexual relationship with him (Gomi), knowing that the ultimately poor sap was probably going to get beat up so bad his ancestors and descendants would feel it?

"when things look tough"-- got me creasing, almost like how Gomi's about to get his body and soul creased by this Temu Serpoian...

 

[BeatMeatMaster64]

I have a feeling the husband will self snitch and get his ass beaten by the whole crew.

 

[FarDistance]

It'll probably be a good beating, good in the sense, as remember before gomi another man was beaten by the husband and then he started to shame kuroko, that how much of a bitch she is, but probably even after getting beaten to dust gomi will get back kuroko and maybe PROVE the love. Hope kuroko also takes some steps to get away from that man

 

[danbellucci]

It's obvious by how he was talking about brothels and having sex with Kuroko.

He talked about going to brothels wtih Yumezora after she asked him. How is that evidence that he never loved her or wanted to marry her? The fact he's willing to share such embarrassing details merely shows that he is naive and socially inexperienced about things like propriety.

I think he cares for her but he doesn't LOVE her.

Your earlier claim was "all he wanted was someone to fuck" https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-28-deeper-darker.2434120/post-27806140
The claims "Gomi cares about yumezora" and "all gomi wants is someone to fuck" seem to be in quite a lot of tension.

If he did love her then he would be there for her like not having sex and talking things out with her.

He attempted to do that and she declined

He admitted he confuses love and lust.

This happened after Yumezora turned down Gomi's sincere declaration of love and revealed she was married and just wants a sex arrangement, so the fact that he feels unsure in this moment about whether he loves Yumezora , after she turned him down and admitted she only wants him for sex, doesn't actually say anything about whether he never loved Yumezora. As far as we know he sincerely loved yumezora and had every intention to marry her at the time he declared his love for her.

Furthermore, it's actually pretty common for members of married couples to at some point have asked themselves " Do I love this person? " especially when getting to know that person.
It's not like if you ever feel doubt even once then that means you don't love that person. By that standard a huge fraction of loving marriages would have to be classified as one partner not loving the other.

And you're leaving out the fact that even after this moment of doubt and thinking "do I just want sexual gratification?" he returns to the realisation that he loves Yumezora. It's clear by the way he draws her on page 5 compared with the ugly depictions on earlier pages. The earlier pages depict cheap, nasty lust and sex with hookers which juxaposes the beauty he depicts Yumezora. He sees Yumezora as far more beautiful because he sincerely wants to spend the rest of his life with her (sincerely desiring to spend your life together as man and wife = love). It's a visual representation of "having eyes for her only" showing that still what he wants is to marry and settle down with her.
And then at the end of the chapter he still says to her that he wants her to leave her husband and be with him instead, showing that's what he most desires not just sex.

So the pages of him doubting whether he loves Yumezora after she rejected him and told him she was married don't show that he didn't love her before, and even after that they aren't strong evidence since feelings of doubt at some point are common among couples who fall in love and the answer he settles on after questioning himself is that he loves Yumezora.

Yes and those who came back from war often have PTSD and have high divorce rates. Why? They haven't talked to their spouses about what happened in the war. Plus, they had therapy. Sadly, Japan is known for looking down on those who see a psychologist.

Those things are irrelevant. You claimed "love is about seeing a person at their worst and still wanting to be with them"
https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-28-deeper-darker.2434120/post-27807349
but many loving couples will never see their spouse at their worst because their spouse was at their worst before they met their spouse which shows that seeing someone at their worst is not a requirement to be in love with someone. One obvious example of this is men who return from war then meet women and get married. For many of those men they were at their worst during the war and their wife never saw that.
If you want to refute this example which shows that seeing someone at their worst is not a requirement to love them, then you need to either show that none of those marriages constituted love or that for all of those marriages the man was actually at his worst after returning from the war (or going through some other great improvement).

When loving someone, they know your past and what you did and still decide to love you.

Knowing about someone's previous struggles is different from seeing them at their worst.
Also, the same basic argument applies. There are many married couples where one of the spouses went through great struggle before meeting their spouse and they never went into great detail about their previous struggle. For example soldiers returning from war who don't talk in great detail to their wife about what they did and saw there. Yet many of those marriages are still loving, so it's not a requirement for loving someone that you need to know all about your past struggles when you were at your worst.

Yes, because he was caught. He didn't do it from the bottom of his heart. He only said sorry when it evidence was shown

Now you're just shifting the goalposts. Your previous claim was :
"This is a dude who was sniffing out her pads. Not once did he say sorry for doing that."
https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/ori-no-naka-ch-28-deeper-darker.2434120/post-27807349

When you don't admit that your original claim was flat out wrong , that's being dishonest. Can you admit that your original claim was wrong?

 

[jrocker]

He is going to hurt Gomi, who will then murder the husband so that they can be together. He will then become the exact same violent person

 

[dsfargeg]

You know, this argument stems entirely from incompatible definitions of love. Why don't the two of you first figure out and define what the hell you're talking about before even trying to pin down exactly how the other's wrong? You can't meaningfully discuss anything without a mutual framework.

 

[EchoGirl]

you'd think the doctors/hospitals would report it if she has signs of abuse on her body but wouldn't be surprised if the marriage laws are fucked up to where they couldn't do anything about it

wonder if we'll get a flashback/prologue/backstory of the husband being 'normal'

Yo we cannot save her guys, best we can do is lock her up forever

i mean even her own mother isn't in an institution so i doubt the gov/system will care lol

 

[middle-the-nerd]

naw they're going to throw hands no matter what Gomi says, even if they weren't having an affair he'd still have a fight. imho he should fight dirty but take that shit outside at least, its an office not a fight club lol. That said I think the pent up frustration might pull through: Gomi is surprisingly fit because of the physical labor job vs Motoyuki who like peaked at high school, works at a desk and gets all his physical exercise from beating women. Maybe in a fair fight Motoyuki might have an advantage but a street fight its more about how creative, vicious and how much raw power you have; more so than any techniques. That said its always GGs if a grappler gets a hold of you unless you reach for a blunt object in time.

I mean you kinda make a good point lol unless i'm forgetting something we've seen Motoyuki beat the piss out of
1. His wife
2. Some Otaku
Not exactly impressive lol

And as you said Gomi actually seems decently fit from what we've seen