Vinland Saga - Vol. 24 Ch. 172 - Sailing West Part 6

[ShaiHH]

I've said my part. There's proof of even Stonemen killing each other, so there's that.
Sure, there might be a phase in between where a society is strong enough to maintain peace, but in the end humanity remains this way: If someone wants or needs or thinks he needs something, they will try take it. By force if necessary.
That's what the US and China do these days, the British and French (and others) did before them and the Romans, Persians, Greek, Chinese, Inca, Egyptians etc did even before that.

The Tokugawa still had an Army btw, they didn't turn into peaceful monks without any weapons, it just so happened that their weapons were outdated when the Americans arrived and immediately afterwards there was this civil war that ended the Shogunate, they didn't just leave on their own.

People also don't magically decide "we don't like this society anymore" without reasons. Reasons are usually famine, diseases or civil war.

It's not nice, there's no reason to like it and I still hope that humanity can overcome this phase eventually. But there's no need to be naive either.

If Thorfinn builds a settlement next to some natives and there comes a time of famine, guess where the Natives will get food to survive if he can't defend it?

 

[deviatesfish]

What a hypocrite. She gets to bring a crossbow, but he can't bring a sword?

 

[hmmmmname]

@deviatesfish What do you mean hypocrite? She's not the one saying you don't need weapons, it's been established since the beginning that's she's waiting for him to slip up and kill him (she has an obsession about revenge just like Thorfinn did it just manifested differently because he acted WAY out of her expectations and she's a good person at heart (if she wasn't he would already be dead)).

Anyway, Thorfinn is still going through changes, after everything he's been through he's come out on the other side, back to being who he was before everything with his father, and he's trying HARD not to fall back into killing people, which is why he's overcompensating to this point.

Even though he's right about what will likely happen if he brings weapons it's just not realistic to follow through on his wishes. Which is why he's going to have to struggle to find a compromise and balance his wishes with the safety of the people around him.

If he does stubbornly force his way then he'll likely have to face a situation of them one-sidedly getting killed and have to deal with conflicts then (which I would like to see personally).

 

[azzyrex]

Damn, and now I'm caught up. This sucks.

 

[MenacingBFF]

I don't think "I'll figure it out" is going to cut it for the life or death situation involving those you care about. He should just teach everyone to use a Bo Staff or other non-lethal weapons. I think that is a pretty fair compromise.

Unfortunately, he seems hellbent on the "idea" of a society without weapons of any kind. Looking forward to seeing what he will have to face in order to grow and become a man more like his father.

 

[zetina]

The fact that people refuse to believe in the possibility of a world without violence is why we can't have a world without violence. No one's trying as hard as Thorfinn is to find the "first resort" and so his ideals fail. Because no one believes, no one's trying. They just laugh at him for being ignorant and naive. Oh, so you're super wise, huh? Know everything? About the human mind, about society? Just gonna settle for "how things are" and give up, sharpen your knife? I wish instead of the sentiment among readers being "lol what an idiot" it would be "I really wish this could work out." Maybe people want to see realistic solutions in manga that they could then apply to real life or to have their desire to see fun violence appeased and I can understand that, but if an author had the kind of perfect solution on hand, they'd probably be a political leader instead or something. But stories are an exploration of ideas. Why will this fail? What can we do so it doesn't fail?

But boy being the change you want to see in the world is tough when no one agrees or no one really gives a shit except to put others down for having any kind of ideals or hope.

 

[Mangareader]

On one hand I've seen it often enough that a small spat escalated because someone had something on em, on the other hand, a weapon *is* a force multiplier, and a deterrent of its own, It depends on the wielder and the situation really.

 

[IMACOP]

@zetina I'd agree with you if it was about other issues people face, but for this Thorfinn's utopia project, the problem lies with fundamental human nature. This isn't about refusing the possibility or how you're so smart or such, it's just how humanity is and it's not going to change, ever. As long as humans have desires, as long as we can think, as long as we're human, this wish is impossible.

 

[RC1138Boss]

Yes removing swords may not completely fix the problem but it sure helps to keep them away from trigger happy people.
Just look at the guy talking with Thorfinn. After his weak argument gets rejected he decides to pull his sword to attack Thorfinn which end up proving his point. Take the weapon and you reduce the chances for violence and killing to happen.

Also Hild is still trying to find a way to deal with the anger and revenge, just like Thorfinn had to do during that slave arc.


ps: Perverted sniffing wife...😂

 

[zetina]

@IMACOP
Man this is exactly the attitude I'm talking about. Amazing.
"It's just human nature, accept it." Oh? Do you wanna kill? Maim? Go to war? When you're so mad you wanna punch someone, do you punch them? Why don't you wanna kill? It's in your nature, right? Is the only thing stopping you the law? Maybe... Just maybe... We can still, I don't know... evolve and change as a species? Try harder to not let violent maniacs be in power? Punish and discourage and shame those who go against pushing for the "first resort"? An education that instills compassion for those who are different, parents who've seen diversity and teach communication... It's like, I dunno, there are plenty of kind people in the world and we could uhhh try and be kinder and bring up the generations after us to be kinder. We have thought. We can stop before we give in to "our nature" and think. We need TONS of idealistic fools like Thorfinn to TRY. Why not TRY? He'll fail, I already know, because he's gonna bring this trio of cavemen who're gonna ruin peace talks somehow and it'll all go to shit. But it's not because Thorfinn is wrong it's because the idiot trio think he's wrong.

 

[Nick_Asano]

@Zetina It's a good dream. But no matter how great and moral a man you try to be, there will always be immoral, inconsiderate, weak and destructive people. You see it in war and in politics all the time. You think that an issue has been resolved but then it comes back twofold, and you sit there unable to believe how evil and stupid so many people are.
You can't change human nature. All you can do is fight it, before it destroys you and everyone you love.

 

[DatFcker]

Evyar vs Thorfinn argument in a nutshell:

 

[Jesus]

@DatFcker wish i could upvote or like a comment

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

Hild's character development: "Heh"

 

[cancerxnd]

I get where Thorfinn is coming from but it's a very naive way to think. Using your people as experiment at the risk of getting possibly killed? What does he plan to do once they get attacked, fight em all barehanded?

 

[Konrad2]

Thanks for the translation.

 

[Noleam]

Thorfinn : *try to explain why a weapon can trigger the urge to kill someone*

Hild : *misinterpret thorfinn word and threaten him*

thorfinn : 👁️👄👁️. "I understand"

 

[asaramrahim]

Thorfinn has a very idealistic view of the world. If the story goes on like this, I don't think there will be a happy ending.

 

[CharleZ1]

@zetina we need more peeps like you

 

[MangaField]

You can tell, who the people with more maturity and who the edgy, cynical teenagers here are.

@zetina wrote everything that has to be written on this topic. And this is why Vinland Saga is one of my favorite manga. This amazing dedication of Thorfinn to see his vision through to the end, however that may look like.
That makes him a much better and more interesting person than that swords guy from this chapter and everyone who agrees with his bland and simple opinions.