Vinland Saga - Vol. 28 Ch. 209 - Thousand Year Voyage Part 18

Double-page supporter
Joined
Jun 2, 2018
Messages
105
Well, what he actually wanted is irrelevant.
His actions incited the war.

Ivar brought a tool of war.
Not a woodaxe, not a hoe for the plot of a farm, not carpenters tools.
He brought a loaded gun. And now he's reaped the reward of the gun going off. In his face.

Lucky for him that Thorfinn will probably shoulder all the blame for this facetatted fuckup
Men are tools of war. At any given time a male population can start conflict for just about any reason, that's why strangers coming to your land uninvited has always been a casus belli. No exception.
"Oh I see you guys only bring axes to process wood and bows to hunt! Welcome to our lands!" <-- This has never happened.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Apr 9, 2019
Messages
158
Bruh haven't you seen Thorkell?
Dude I was making a facetious Fire Emblem joke (and even in Fire Emblem, if one’s unit has good enough stats/levels, an axe-wielder can defeat a sword user in the games that use the weapon triangle mechanic).

Also even with them not being the sole (or even primary)cause of conflict, a tool being solely crafted for human-on-human violence will affect relations and interactions (particularly in ones attempting to avoid violence).
Like if a person came into a shop/cafe carrying a semi-automatic/fully-automatic firearm, even in states/countries with open-carry laws they are going be reacted to (and likely treated differently) than if someone walked into the same place(s) carrying just a hunting rifle.
 
Last edited:
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
786
This tribe would've attacked whether or not the Nords had weapons. And they would've done it with their weapons.
Are you just gonna ignore the poetry in him losing his hand in the exact same way he cut off old guys hand? The author is clearly telling us its his fault for showing off his weapon thinking it would deter violence instead of bringing more.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
347
Does an atrocity cease to be an atrocity just because the group committing them is smaller?
The scale does matter, which is why a mass murderer will get a more severe sentence than someone who just killed one person.
The motivations do matter too, which is why someone killing in self-defense will get less of a punishment than someone who killed for pleasure.
 
Last edited:
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
347
and it was Ivar (a fellow warrior) that kicked the conflict off in the first place.
The raid happened because they want iron stuffs, right? The sword adds to the incentives.
Here's the thing:
You can delete Ivar's character and the sword entirely from the story and the Lnu would still ends up attacking the Nords because the plague is the actual deciding factor, not the sword or Ivar.
His actions incited the war.

Ivar brought a tool of war.
Not a woodaxe, not a hoe for the plot of a farm, not carpenters tools.
He brought a loaded gun. And now he's reaped the reward of the gun going off. In his face.
Also you conveniently ignore than in the end, the Lnu already had weapons, do you think those Lnu warriors willed the weapon they are using out of thin air? If having a weapon is enough to be blamed, then the Lnu are equally, if not more guilty because they have far more weapons than the Nords.
 
Last edited:
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Mar 7, 2018
Messages
2,555
Watch the hat guy going to blame Thorfinn for not going to war sooner
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Apr 9, 2019
Messages
158
Here's the thing:
You can delete Ivar's character and the sword entirely from the story and the Lnu would still ends up attacking the Nords because the plague is the actual deciding factor, not the sword or Ivar.
The plague is certainly the largest deciding factor but certainly not the only one. And we actually can't say with certainty that if Ivar character and sword hadn't been an issue that the Lnu would have still ended up attacking the settlement, like this specific raid is literally here because they wanted to obtain Ivar's sword. Also Ivar not playing right into Miskwekepu'j's antics and spoiling the relations with the local Lnu tribe before the plague spread could have drastically changed the response and interactions between the settlment and tribes and thus the consequences of the plague spreading. It's very possible if Ivar hadn't done what he done in the past Thorfinn would have been able to successfully negotiate having until spring for the Norse to withdraw from the settlment.

Also you conveniently ignore than in the end, the Lnu already had weapons, do you think those Lnu warriors willed the weapon they are using out of thin air? If having a weapon is enough to be blamed, then the Lnu are equally, if not more guilty because they have far more weapons than the Nords.
While the Lnu certainly hold some responsiblity (a great deal even) for the situation going to shit (and even then none of them had swords a tool that is only used for killing other people, and which was the only weapon/tool Thorfinn said would be banned from the Vinland settlement venture), they are the ones who's land is being intruded upon by foreign settlers, in such a situation said latter party holds the greater burden and responsiblity of establishing and maintaining peaceful relations.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
58
Are you just gonna ignore the poetry in him losing his hand in the exact same way he cut off old guys hand? The author is clearly telling us its his fault for showing off his weapon thinking it would deter violence instead of bringing more.
The author could symbolically tell me he needs to suck a fat BBC to resolve this situation and I still wouldn't suspend my disbelief.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
347
The plague is certainly the largest deciding factor but certainly not the only one. And we actually can't say with certainty that if Ivar character and sword hadn't been an issue that the Lnu would have still ended up attacking the settlement, like this specific raid is literally here because they wanted to obtain Ivar's sword. Also Ivar not playing right into Miskwekepu'j's antics and spoiling the relations with the local Lnu tribe before the plague spread could have drastically changed the response and interactions between the settlment and tribes and thus the consequences of the plague spreading. It's very possible if Ivar hadn't done what he done in the past Thorfinn would have been able to successfully negotiate having until spring for the Norse to withdraw from the settlment.
Thing is, Ivar ultimately cut the hand of the Lnu chief out of concern for Thorfinn, in his eyes, Thorfinn is a utopic weirdo who get bossed around by a woman (Hilde) and he still doesn't know that he's actually a warrior who far surpass him and while he disagree on his methods, he still ended following him on a journey into the unknown because Thorfinn has no concrete proof of Vinland's existence beyond "trust me bro, this old man told me Vinland exist so it must exist".
If he actually knew Thorfinn didn't need help or protection, he wouldn't have cut the hand of the chief.
And while he spoiled the relation between the Nords and the Lnu with the fort they were trying to build being symbolic of that, he still adopted a defensive stance in the end because a fort is ultimately a defensive structure.
It's very possible if Ivar hadn't done what he done in the past Thorfinn would have been able to successfully negotiate having until spring for the Norse to withdraw from the settlment.
We don't know and probably won't ever know, the chief already had a heavy bias against the Nords because of the vision he had and we don't know if he would have the patience to wait until then while a lethal and unknown disease is spreading and killing his people.
While the Lnu certainly hold some responsiblity (a great deal even) for the situation going to shit (and even then none of them had words a tool that is only used for killing other people, and which was the only weapon/tool Thorfinn said would be banned from the Vinland settlement venture), they are the ones who's land is being intruded upon by foreign settlers, in such a situation said latter party holds the greater burden and responsiblity of establishing and maintaining peaceful relations.
How should a leader react if a foreign leader tried to stab him? Remember, the old Lnu chief is the one who attacked first.
Thorfinn wasn't in any real danger but only people close to him knew that, for everyone else it was a clear attempt to assassinate or at least harm their leader.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
516
Hmm... I'm not sure about that one...
The first documented evidence that we have about that tribe dates back to the 1700s.
Since the most well known tribes were formed by absorbing multiple others, there's a good chance that the Comanche Indians tribe didn't even exist in Thorfinn's time since he lived 7 centuries earlier.
TIL
 
Group Leader
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
62
Thing is, Ivar ultimately cut the hand of the Lnu chief out of concern for Thorfinn,
Lmao, Ivar has zero concern for Thorfinn. He "defended" Thorfinn from the chief for purely selfish reasons, as he from the start wanted to replace Thorfinn as the leader.
iThorfinn has no concrete proof of Vinland's existence beyond "trust me bro, this old man told me Vinland exist so it must exist".
Have you forgotten about the smoke pipe Leif brought from Vinland? Nobody in Iceland and Greenland doubted the existence of Vinland, which is why Thorfinn was able to get funding for his colony from Halfdan.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
347
Lmao, Ivar has zero concern for Thorfinn. He "defended" Thorfinn from the chief for purely selfish reasons, as he from the start wanted to replace Thorfinn as the leader.
Maybe but that's not how things looked for everyone else and regardless of his intent, he did protect Thorfinn and it still doesn't change the fact that the chief is the one who started the whole mess.
Have you forgotten about the smoke pipe Leif brought from Vinland? Nobody in Iceland and Greenland doubted the existence of Vinland, which is why Thorfinn was able to get funding for his colony from Halfdan.
I did forgot about it, is Ivar also a native from Iceland and Greenland?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top