Welcome Back, Alice - Vol. 7 Ch. 40.5 - Afterword

[superor707]

I want to f* the girl version of me too. Yeah.

 

[Hdittus13]

oshimi will consider every answer to his issues in the cosmos that isnt being trans lmao

 

[outinthegardener]

This was a complex work that took on the conflict between societal expectations for performed gender, and trying to make sense of your feelings that don't match it. Aside from cultural pressure to conform, there is no guidebook on what gender is. I can understand how difficult it is to find an answer when your inside contradicts the outside.

Transitioning is just one possible answer, and sexuality is just one aspect of gender, and feelings can be very fluid and hard to pin down or explain when you don't have the language for them. I really appreciated this story for not trying to make it easy.

 

[Hicleric]

This afterword hit me particularly well. I spent decades coming to terms not with my sexual orientation (full disclosure: straight as an arrow), but rather my identity as a sexual being, largely due to being raised Catholic I suspect. In trying to remain asexual outside of specific contexts (that being a romantic relationship) but also borderline addicted to porn, I ended up developing a bifurcated personality (one clean and one filthy) and oceans of self-loathing every time I "failed myself." Coming from the USA's perspective, where culture is also conflicted on the question of sex as both the end-all of gender identity (a patently ridiculous concept, but yet deeply foundational to the discourse) and yet something to be cleansed from the public sphere at all costs, I was constantly bombarded with negative reinforcement of this bifurcation and consequent cognitive dissonance.

This work does a great job of reflecting that loathing across the three main characters. Ultimately it doesn't quite resonate with me because it primarily dealt with gender expression as a vehicle of sexual desire (OK, that's a gross oversimplification, but you can see what I mean), whereas my personal conflict is solely on the idea of sexuality itself. But the core ideas it proposes are worthy of discussion and exploration, to show that no matter the specifics of your challenges, you are not alone and you can be seen.

Side note: This is not the venue for a proper discussion on the language to be used in the discussion, but I would really like to see the phrase "sexual vector" become the norm, which encapsulates the orientation(s) of the subject and their drive.

 

[Sourmonkey]

While I thoroughly despise "egg" discussion and stuff, it's becoming a lot harder and harder to deny that Oshimi is probably not cis.
If he said almost an ounce of what he has written on all of these afterwords to a therapist, they might go "hey uhm, you might be dysphoric? yeah." A lot of the things that he talks about in some of these tend to be insanely loaded but also the answer seems way too easy sometimes.
I'm not gonna lie, seeing someone try to reverse engineer gender and sexuality like this feels wrong, not in the sense of "he shouldn't do that" but in the sense of seeing a car crash happen frame by frame. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up writing some sort of essay that goes nutty, like lesbian experience with loneliness(whose author also has gender brainrot kinda happening over there but still)
At the end of the day, I hope he gets the tools necessary to properly navigate his situation and that everything goes well for him.

 

[Hootanic]

Oshimi-sensei probably needs to seek professional counseling to work through those feelings, or at least talk about them.

 

[GreenOwlRanger]

I love people psychoanalysing this poor man. You can't feel his feelings or live through his personal experience. He'll figure himself out.

This was interesting.

 

[ahhahahahhahaha]

L, G, B, T, Q and + all at once? Amazing.

I'm a trans woman and he's eggy as fuck and living in a society where it's a lot more terrifying to approach transition and a lot fewer online spaces to explore those feelings.

oh god, im very thankful for not making me any part of lgtv comm

 

[ErikTheRed]

Someone should really send Oshimi some educational material on dysphoria.

 

[mangareadre121]

This afterword hit me particularly well. I spent decades coming to terms not with my sexual orientation (full disclosure: straight as an arrow), but rather my identity as a sexual being, largely due to being raised Catholic I suspect. In trying to remain asexual outside of specific contexts (that being a romantic relationship) but also borderline addicted to porn, I ended up developing a bifurcated personality (one clean and one filthy) and oceans of self-loathing every time I "failed myself." Coming from the USA's perspective, where culture is also conflicted on the question of sex as both the end-all of gender identity (a patently ridiculous concept, but yet deeply foundational to the discourse) and yet something to be cleansed from the public sphere at all costs, I was constantly bombarded with negative reinforcement of this bifurcation and consequent cognitive dissonance.

This work does a great job of reflecting that loathing across the three main characters. Ultimately it doesn't quite resonate with me because it primarily dealt with gender expression as a vehicle of sexual desire (OK, that's a gross oversimplification, but you can see what I mean), whereas my personal conflict is solely on the idea of sexuality itself. But the core ideas it proposes are worthy of discussion and exploration, to show that no matter the specifics of your challenges, you are not alone and you can be seen.

Side note: This is not the venue for a proper discussion on the language to be used in the discussion, but I would really like to see the phrase "sexual vector" become the norm, which encapsulates the orientation(s) of the subject and their drive.

I read your comment and I found myself resonating and agreeing with it on some points. I am by no means an expert, but to me it seems somewhat idealistic to introduce more sexual complexity (using sexual vector more) to people.

But I can't shake the feeling that we aren't that deep, and sometimes I truly wonder how much of this sort of sexual identity reformation is caused by trauma and self loathing to somewhat severe degrees.

Not trying to be overly insensitive, but it seems to me that Oshimi sensei ultimately did come to the conclusion that after going through so much trauma, pain and introspection, he has to keep moving and constantly re-evaluate himself and seek a more comfortable place.

To me the conclusion seemed very normal and rational after one confronts their mental conflicts and trauma.

If I were to put it bluntly and I mean it without offence, I think he couldn't find love that fulfilled his sexual identity/expectations, which caused mental conflicts that he proceeded to resolve.

 

[vvboondoggirl]

Many many many trans people have stated this and experienced them starting their transition as being a crucial first step to working out things like alcoholism / depression / etc. Not to say 100% of people coming out the otherside fix all their shit, theres still plenty of heavy social consequence because of societal institutional transphobia/misogyny that can negatively impact us. But at least for me personally none of my shit could ever start to even begin to shift without taking that first step. Especially the relationship between my sexuality and my sense of self worth. Like i went from gay incel-lite dude to fucking turbo dyke. Rather than a band aid most people recognize it as a crucial step. How was I gonna tackle my depression when 50% of it was contingent on like, the other 50% that was about the fact that i had to be someone im not??

 

[vvboondoggirl]

In other words yeah the dude is in no way cis and there is plenty of avenue for transition to actually be instrumental in beginning to work through his internalized shit and his depression.

 

[Hicleric]

I read your comment and I found myself resonating and agreeing with it on some points. I am by no means an expert, but to me it seems somewhat idealistic to introduce more sexual complexity (using sexual vector more) to people.

But I can't shake the feeling that we aren't that deep, and sometimes I truly wonder how much of this sort of sexual identity reformation is caused by trauma and self loathing to somewhat severe degrees.

Not trying to be overly insensitive, but it seems to me that Oshimi sensei ultimately did come to the conclusion that after going through so much trauma, pain and introspection, he has to keep moving and constantly re-evaluate himself and seek a more comfortable place.

To me the conclusion seemed very normal and rational after one confronts their mental conflicts and trauma.

If I were to put it bluntly and I mean it without offence, I think he couldn't find love that fulfilled his sexual identity/expectations, which caused mental conflicts that he proceeded to resolve.

I hear you. I'm an intellectual (c.f. my reading list...) so complexity and depth in the discussion is what I always aspire to. But aspirations and reality have this nasty habit of only occasionally overlapping.

(this, incidentally, is why I can claim I'm never wrong. It's the universe that gets things wrong)

I can only hope that by raising the point, eventually one person will adopt a new perspective, and society can be considered to have taken a incremental step forward. That's part of the reason I enjoyed suffering through this work (even with its faults and self-insert traumas), since it forced me to consider a perspective that still feels foreign. It gives me understanding even when I don't have native empathy for the perspective.

 

[biscard-one]

I hope nobody take this personally, but can we please stop with the couch psychoanalysis? "The author didn't consider this", or "this is the solution to all his problems" are simply the worst form of entitlement. Please, keep in mind that your own experiences or your view of the world do not include, explain or "solve" all of the human and societal conundrums and forms - especially when approaching what is patently a very personal story or narration.

 

[flak]

way too many (after)words to describe gender dysphoria lol

 

[Gem-Bug]

I really appreciate these after-words; thanks for translating them.

Some profoundly stupid and lazy takes in here, lol.

 

[ariel_haymarket]

Author gots a lot of stuff to deal with. But I think saying he should transition is like a bandaid solution to what he got going on.

That is the first time I've agreed with someone about this, and probably the only time.

I want to lead off by observing that some folks would rather choose to be upset and cause problems over the reactions of others than just accept that nuance is a thing and that barely skimming the surface for "Hi I'm trans" doesn't count for evidence against a claim. I've seen comments about folks "freaking out" about the language, but I'm seeing none of that in this discussion except from users who have difficulty with inferring from context and text and want to act like lighthearted remarks are serious problems to address.

If I were in Oshimi-sama's shoes, I too would be hesitant to pick a label for what I'm feeling. "Trans" has a very particular connotation for some folks. Hell, it took me over a decade to accept the label as a descriptor for myself. I didn't really think all that much about wanting to be born a girl ... but I wasn't happy with being socialized as male, either. Nothing about clothing or nothing from me or Shuzo ... just feeling "not at home" with the gender I was raised as. It was the reason why one of my earliest queer identity labels was "agender". Labels have power, and "transgender" is, for some, a loaded term with consequences they may not feel emotionally ready for - and may never be ready to address. After all, look at how trans and gender-nonconforming people are treated by the cishet population at large (and in various media).

Hell, I have discussions with my father who is in a similar situation to Oshimi and Eguchi. He calls his own experiences being "gender neutral", but he had to come to that label on his own, and he's asked that I continue to use he/him for him. It was what he was comfortable with. For me, that's enough, and my dad is still my dad. Oshimi is still Oshimi. Eguchi is still Eguchi.

It's difficult to look at "I wish I was born and raised a girl" coming from an ostensibly cisgender man and not go "This person is potentially trans", though, and I understand the want to claim from afar or "diagnose". If Oshimi-sama is having issues connecting with the concept(s) of sexuality and/or gender, as I'm reading in the text, I can more readily make an argument that the author is touching on being asexual and/or agender. The whole gender and sexuality thing is a mess, especially as we see in these seven volumes and in other works. I see where the author is coming from in saying all of that. The consensus may be "this person is some form or another of not-cisgender", but we also have to bear in mind that labels can be scary to take on, especially when it's a major paradigm shift. HRT and such also isn't the bandage some folks joke that it is, either, and shouldn't be viewed as such.

My whole spiel can be boiled down to this - Shuzo Oshimi has a very complex relationship with gender identity and expression and sexuality and sexual orientation. This is a frequent theme in their work. And, yes, gender and sexuality as a whole aren't things we can just pin down and call it a day. To do so is horrendously reductive and can cause great harm, physical and emotional (again, a theme of Oshimi's).

Some of y'all are wanting to take this sort of thing too lightly and offer quick fixes for something that can take years or decades to resolve or address. (EDIT - However, Oshimi eventually has to act on the question and look into what vocabulary clicks in place. Starting HRT as a trial run isn't going to be doable for him except through questionable or illegal means, and plenty of non-cis folks aren't comfortable with that particular route.) (Second edit - I do agree that experimental socializing as a gender other than male and using different descriptors is the best option, considering the consistent "I wish I was born and raised a girl" talk, and I agree that there's a high probability Oshimi is transgender and should pursue opportunities for seeing what can be done in the here and now.)

And some of y'all who feel like you need to be cruel towards folks who mention this being related to the trans experience need to grow up and either say things with your full chest or realize your cruelty and atone.

 

[ariel_haymarket]

He is aware of that, he wanted to be born as an actual girl instead. This is an afterword from his another manga 'Inside Mari'

Yeah that ... does kinda fall under gender dysphoria, but it's entirely up to the author to address it.

Like, "genderless" is a valid option.

 

[youkari]

I feel like Oshimi sensei is over analysing both sexuality and gender. Part of it is probably because of the particular cultural lens Japanese people have, but also because gender roles and expectations are a lot more rigid there. One thing he could do is live elsewhere for a while. Also just go see a sexologist, and also a gender therapist. This stuff really isn't that complicated. He just needs to experiment.

 

[ariel_haymarket]

I feel like Oshimi sensei is over analysing both sexuality and gender. Part of it is probably because of the particular cultural lens Japanese people have, but also because gender roles and expectations are a lot more rigid there. One thing he could do is live elsewhere for a while. Also just go see a sexologist, and also a gender therapist. This stuff really isn't that complicated. He just needs to experiment.

In fairness, it is complicated for some folks because of how heavily tied together the concepts may be. It changes from generation to generation and culture to culture, so it's quite a stretch to look at someone who's 41, raised in a culture that has relatively strict gender roles, and go "oh you're just overthinking it".

What you're offering as solutions aren't going to help with the psychological connections. I agree that Oshimi isn't necessarily cis, but hypersimplifying the matter is kinda gross.