Yancha Gal no Anjou-san - Vol. 3 Ch. 40 - A Slightly Upset Anjou-san

[Daktyl]

You should get a proofreader.

 

[lonefire]

@Zephyrus
Thank you for this very informative comment! I have learned a lot. I truly appreciate you mods and all the hard work that you do.
Especially since you do it

Spoiler

for free

.

 

[Kazarash]

I'm mostly just confused why you decided to snipe this.

The credit pages talk about how you shouldn't let scanlation groups scam you but Hatigarm doesn't have a history of taking chapters hostage behind paywalls.
You comment that this is to reap salt but why didn't you snipe an immensely more popular manga from a group like say komi-san? That would generate enough salt/shade/drama to eat chips for a year

Were you too scared of backlash to snipe troll something that had more eyes on it? Or were you too scared to directly snipe a BIG e-begging scanlation group?

It all just feels really half-assed tbh.

 

[ReimuHakurei]

@Kazarash We chose this particular series because our group leader really likes the series. No more, no less. But, if we can procure some delicious popcorn at the same time, why not? The possibility of drama is what made us do this first, before the other upcoming projects we have in the pipeline.

 

[KitsuneAoi]

@seekermoc Few things I would like to clarify for you. I am from Hatigarm scans but i don't work on this series. However, I can confidently tell you that we didn't use any free raw for any chapters. The raw wasn't bought digitally either. According to our veteran cleaner and redrawer, manually scanning the raw provides a better quality. We bought the hard copy.

As for the donation, it's not just about buying the raw only. We have paid translators as well. Some translators are willing to work for free because they like it. Some are working because they want to find another income. Free translators are like volunteer so they come and go as they might eventually lose interest or life caught up to them or they need their time to do something else that they can earn money or scanlating takes too much time and effort.
As far as I know and see, we don't beg for money and our credit page has only the link to patreon. That's it. We don't say "please fund us or donate us". In fact, we don't give any benefits for patreon really.

Honestly speaking, working in real life earns 10 times better than gambling ourselves from the donation. I just want to say all that so you can have two sides of the story. At the end of the day, I can't really say donation is 100% fine either.

 

[justinx931]

just like that, some several chapters vanished. thankfully grabbed it for future reading...

wait is there more that this chapter? feels like a cliffhanger right after chapter end

 

[Zethuron]

Sigh, all the drama of today, could have been just avoided if people didnt purposefully bait people into harsh actions. Thats just awful for both readers and groups as a whole.
Im just a reader, that is thankful that groups are scanlating manga to read in the first place, and am willing to wait if theres delays.

 

[justinx931]

i just hope this group sticks, i don't give much salt to this snipe group but since they basically shoved hati and made them ran away, hopefully they do more future chapters and not abandon it once the salt gets used up.

else, we'd have a potentially no scanlation group manga, big oof's for a bit til someone else take's their place.

 

[ReimuHakurei]

@justinx931 Don't worry, we are going to continue scanlating this manga. It's one of our group leader's favorite series, so we have absolutely no intention of abandoning it.

 

[seekermoc]

@KitsuneAoi

Fair enough, and thanks for an informed and reasoned response, without resorting to attacks. Like anyone's beliefs, mine are purely my own opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs. Judging by the reactions of some of the other users here (not just the ones directed against me, but in general), people may need to start prefacing their comments with this disclaimer, though it shouldn't be necessary to spell out something so fundamental.

I do stand by my belief that profiting off someone else's work is wrong, and I really don't agree with paying translators if you're not licensed by the artist/publisher. I also don't think the (what I assume to be modest) amount a group earns from donation is worth the legal risk (C&Ds, potential for lawsuits) of earning money off of a copyrighted work, but that's up for you to decide for yourselves.
Also, while I support you for buying physical volumes, as it does support the author, I'd still argue that it is the cost of your hobby, and shouldn't be passed on to the readers. It's also Hatigarm's choice to do so, as there are good quality free raws available (at least through chap 42 for Anjo), and I'm pretty sure ToDaG is digital only anyway, and is currently free through chap 275, which is 50 chapters beyond the translation.

All of that said, while I agree with the other group's sentiment, you're right that Hatigarm's simple listing of a donation option isn't nearly as egregious as many other groups, especially since you don't delay chapters or otherwise discriminate between those who donate and those who don't. There were probably better targets for them to go after instead, and I wouldn't have said anything in the first place if Hatigarm hadn't pulled their chapters from mangadex. To me that seemed like a self-defeating reaction that doesn't really do anything to problem. Not to mention that it essentially means their trolling was successful, providing the salt they were looking for, which I thought was amusing, hence my original comment.

 

[Dswopey]

@ReimuHakurei

Whatever you guys may do, please don't start uploading 4K rez pages, kthx.

On a more serious note - is there a way to find out the schedule or something as to how often can we expect new chapters?

 

[TheOneWhoSighs]

@seekermoc

and I really don't agree with paying translators if you're not licensed by the artist/publisher.

Why not? You want something translated in high quality, you don't have the skills to translate it yourself, and over here is a guy willing to do whatever series you want for $10 a chapter. And that guy's not going to get upset if the community whines about speed or how crappy the series has turned. He's going to do what you paid him to do, and then move on.

Considering how valuable that skill is, it's not surprising in the least that there are scanlators & supporters of said scanlators willing to pay them.

How many series on your reading list are translated by someone being paid?

How many of those series do you plan to stop reading because the translator is being paid?

 

[flavorful]

So let me get this straight:
-Hati translates this, does a pretty good job. Maybe not super fast, but they're dedicated and all. Cool.
-Facepalm comes in, translates at the same quality or better, also much faster, and throws some shade at Hati.
-Hati goes big bitch baby mode and rips chapters from MD, even though all that does is hurt readers and the site, and in the process makes this look like a massive hissy-fit on their part, ruining their reputation for thousands of fans and readers. All because they got some butthurt from a page that another group posted.

Good job Hati, you really showed them. /heavy fucking sarcasm

 

[seekermoc]

@TheOneWhoSighs

Of course I won't stop reading a series because I don't agree with their internal group policies, and I think it's somewhat immature to think someone would, or to call someone out as a hypocrite for doing so, which is what I think you're implying. Also, what would that accomplish? I'm not naive enough to think that a group will change their policies just because I don't agree, or because I'll stop reading their work.

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here that people can't disagree with each other and still be civil and appreciate the work they do. Let's reframe this same premise a little differently. Say there is a band you're a huge fan of, but then you find out that they have very different political views than you do. Would you stop listening to their music? Do you suddenly stop liking their songs just because you don't agree with their political views?

I agree with Facepalm's statement that scanlators shouldn't ask for money, so I commented that I agree. I also think that Hatigarm pulling their chapters does nothing but hurt themselves, so I said so. I still enjoy the manga Hatigarm translates, and appreciate the service they provide the community, even if I don't agree with the way they go about doing it. There's nothing wrong with that, the world isn't just black and white.

The only reason I've gotten so invested in this thread in the first place is because FredUnfriendly decided to take a comment I made about a specific scenario, and tried to attack me with it by applying it to a completely different scenario in a way I never intended, and then followed it up by assuming negative things about me and the general reader community despite knowing nothing about me.

 

[TheOneWhoSighs]

@seekermoc

Of course I won't stop reading a series because I don't agree with their internal group policies, and I think it's somewhat immature to think someone would, or to call someone out as a hypocrite for doing so, which is what I think you're implying. Also, what would that accomplish? I'm not naive enough to think that a group will change their policies just because I don't agree, or because I'll stop reading their work.

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here that people can't disagree with each other and still be civil and appreciate the work they do. Let's reframe this same premise a little differently. Say there is a band you're a huge fan of, but then you find out that they have very different political views than you do. Would you stop listening to their music? Do you suddenly stop liking their songs just because you don't agree with their political views?

The issue with this, is that this seems like a moral disagreement, rather than a political one.

If an artist I like goes out and scams a lot of people. Yeah, I'm going to stop buying and listening to their music. Similarly, despite the fact that there are some games that I would probably enjoy playing, I don't buy any game made by EA that has any form of microtransactions or lootboxes in it. And honestly, any title they intend to release gets put under far more scrutiny by me before I'd ever consider spending money on it.

And it is actually similar with scanlation. I didn't support Trash Scans, and I stopped reading anything that they scanlated until after they imploded. Because they were actively and actually scamming people.


Also, I haven't called you a hypocrite and that was very overly defensive. If I intended to attack you, I'd just do it. It's more that your position is incredibly odd to me.

We're all doing illegal activities anyway. I don't understand why paying someone to translate a series somehow makes it worse in your mind. And it's the thing I've been trying to figure out for the longest time, because it seems like everyone who holds this position is either trying to hold onto some arbitrary moral high ground for lulz, or has no real justification. "You're making money off of someone else's IP", so does everyone ever that streams a video game. You're not making money off of the IP, you're making money off of the hours and hours of work you put into the IP. Hours that could've made money much faster and with less effort even at minimum wage.

 

[seekermoc]

@TheOneWhoSighs
I'd argue that attempting to separate moral and political beliefs in any meaningful way would be largely arbitrary and easily debatable. I'd also offer to you that someone's (in)ability to understand someone else's beliefs has no relation to the validity of those beliefs. For example, I have a hard time understanding how you don't see a difference between copying something without permission and sharing it for free, and copying something and then making money off it. That doesn't mean you're opinion is invalid, or that my opinion is correct, just that we both have different perspectives. Again, the world isn't just black and white.

I do take issue with your implication that other people should be able to justify their beliefs in a way that makes sense to you, when you don't offer any justification for your own beliefs. Similarly, your example with Trash Scans and makes you look like you're "trying to hold onto some arbitrary moral high ground," just the same as you're accusing other people of doing.

I'm also not sold on your example, as game studios actively support game streaming, and it makes them boatloads of cash. I'd have no issue with a group making money off scanlation if the manga publisher themselves supported it.

 

[TheOneWhoSighs]

@seekermoc

I'd argue that attempting to separate moral and political beliefs in any meaningful way would be largely arbitrary and easily debatable

That's fair.

I'd also offer to you that someone's (in)ability to understand someone else's beliefs has no relation to the validity of those beliefs. For example, I have a hard time understanding how you don't see a difference between copying something without permission and sharing it for free, and copying something and then making money off it.

That's fair, but the difference is literally that one is making money. I can see the difference. I just don't see how that changes anything.

Is it some how more acceptable to steal if you don't profit off of it? Because that doesn't seem like a hill to die on to me, not going to lie.

I do take issue with your implication that other people should be able to justify their beliefs in a way that makes sense to you, when you don't offer any justification for your own beliefs.

I offered a lot of justification actually. Without "for profit" translators there are a whole slew of series I wouldn't have known existed let alone enjoyed. And I also stated that you have likely been a benefactor of this exact thing, while doing basically nothing to put a stop to it.

My argument is quite simple. Making profit from stealing (or really, intellectual property violations) is no more wrong than the act of stealing (violating intellectual property) itself.

Similarly, your example with Trash Scans and makes you look like you're "trying to hold onto some arbitrary moral high ground," just the same as you're accusing other people of doing.

If that's how you feel, that's fine. But of the recent cases in which actual scamming came to light, that's the one that's freshest on my memory and the one that got ripped apart for justifiable reasons.

I'm also not sold on your example, as game studios actively support game streaming, and it makes them boatloads of cash. I'd have no issue with a group making money off scanlation if the manga publisher themselves supported it.

Eh, that's actually pretty fair. Granted most of that had to be grinded over years of people streaming and bitching about their content being DMCA'd by the likes of Sony, Nintendo, etc. Basically it all had to be done illegally before they caved and made it legal.

 

[ReimuHakurei]

@Dswopey We won't. I have no idea what was up with the other group's releases so this is just a wild guess, but it looked to me like whoever was exporting their releases had no clue how to properly export stuff in Photoshop and was just saving their full-resolution PSDs as a JPEG (ew). Our raws are 1600dpi, and in the quick test I just did saving a PNG at full-resolution, I got a result that was over 37 MB, which is at least A LITTLE excessive.

As far as a schedule, chapters 38, 41, and 42 are all in various states of completion, and should be out within less than a week unless something comes up. After that, we'll fill the first half of Vol.3 back in while we wait for Vol.4 to come out in a month or three, though we'll be filling in the first half of the volume at a more leisurely pace than the rest of the chapters we did.

 

[Auxil3300]

So many series choices out there that dont step on the toes of other groups who are actively working on series
And many series out there have dozens of chapters out but are being held hostage by groups who release less than a chapter a month on average. go be productive please and work for the community and not stir a pot and cause drama.
we do this because we have readers out there who enjoy the content we provide.

 

[Nademonkey]

@ReimuHakurei thank you for the information about updates and the like