Shin'yuu no Furin Aite wa, Otto deshita - Vol. 2 Ch. 15
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A few personal thoughts to share: I'm quite amazed that almost nobody predicted this outcome, given the manga has, from the very beginning, been playing it super straight, what you see is what you get. I think I recall like 3 or 4 comments from the hundreds that said this is how it would play out (congrats if you're one of the lucky ones!).
Of course, it's really hard to imagine the exact outcome of any story, especially a mystery (I didn't guess this outcome when I read it myself, so I don't get any cookies either). But what stood out to me was how most people were going so far off course with the theories and purposefully avoiding the most basic of interpretations (ie they're simply cheating as presented in the story, which would then lead to the twist of only Kyouko cheating, so you'd have been half right if you just assumed the basic), that I was genuinely somewhat anxious I'd be letting folks down with the very simple conclusion, even though I didn't even write the story and am just translating it lol.
Naturally there is purposeful misdirection to complicate it, but overall the plot has not really veered too far off course from what it has initially presented to the reader, so it's interesting that some really complex theories have formed around it.
Perhaps this is the result of a somewhat unintended demographic reading this. Many people really focused on the mystery angle and drew complex narratives in the comments (totally understandable, who doesn't love to theory craft and try to identify the red herrings/misdirection), while the manga is more of a by-the-books shoujo/josei, and to me it's always been primarily a story about Mahoro's emancipation, not just a cheating mystery (even if that's the hook), so I always took the mystery at face value when I read it and simply put myself in Mahoro's shoes and assumed her worldview.
Another thing is that a lot of stuff is glossed over. Like yeah, this sting operation probably isn't very smart if you analyze it, but the goal of the story is clearly elsewhere so it doesn't bother really making everything perfect, just enough to preserve suspension of disbelief, which in turn makes the scene more spicy like in a TV drama.
Same with the timeline, you don't really see much of Mahoro's life outside of when she's investigating the affair (to the point where some folks even wondered if she worked at all, despite that being established in chapter 1, just not shown). Did you notice several months have passed since the start of the manga? Go back and read it, its mentioned in a throwaway line. We started in November and it's now somewhere around spring/summer. So we're really only shown the very important moments, all the rest of the story is trimmed and downtime abridged. The author has a plot to tell and isn't really concerned with the stuff around it (only to the point of maintaining suspension of disbelief).
Other things are what I suppose I would describe as "male-centeic takes in a female-centric work" for lack of a better expression. This mainly came across with regards to the perception of the male characters in the series.
For example, since chapter 1 some people have been defending or at least presuming Rei's innocence (either that he's not cheating or even that he's actually a nice guy and we're dealing with an unreliable narrator/perspective), whereas the jp audience unanimously called him a piece of shit since chapter 1 and most didn't even assume he wasn't cheating, since there are more signs pointing to it than not like the letter, the first pages of the manga, and the title/synopsis (plus his demeanor/behavior but those can always be misinterpreted).
If you take the story at face value, and especially if you're a woman who has dealt with people like Rei irl (they're... surprisingly more common than you think), that's the conclusion you invariably arrive at. The author, a woman herself, when writing to an audience also comprised mostly of women, clearly wrote Rei with those presuppositions in mind. It's a given that Rei is a bad person because his behaviors are so well known and common among the intended audience that the tidbits Mahoro mentions alone are enough to paint almost the whole picture. But in these comments a lot of people much prefer exploring alternative possibilities and presume Rei's innocence to a certain extent, if not entirely. Not to say who's right or wrong in this story's case (I ain't spoiling), just pointing out the stark difference in perception.
Another difference was the reception of Haruto. I was actually quite shocked so many people didn't like him because, when I first read these chapters, he just seemed like a goofy guy who liked to lighten the mood and was presented as such. Some commenters were even accusing him of taking advantage of Mahoro when all I saw was the two having completely reasonable banter (Mahoro even smacks his hand when he gets too close, clearly consciously establishing boundaries, which he respected). He hasn't pressured her to do anything or tried to put her in any awkward spots, he's just accompanying her and keeping things cool, something she explicitly appreciated because it helped her be more rational and less tense (many people overlooked the fact he dispelled her fears of Rei being in bed with Kyouko, saying Rei is unlikely to rent a suite just to sleep with a woman, so he at least on a surface level has her best interest in mind and is not taking unreasonable positions for personal gain). But hey, different strokes for different folks, if you don't like him that's that.
Though I do wonder if these commenters would react the same way with the genders reversed, considering the sheer volume of manga with horrible, toxic women that are full of "I can fix her/she can ruin me" comments. Not that I am criticizing those series' or comments' existence, just pointing out the polar opposite attitude when it's a man being... Just kinda silly(?) around a woman (it's particularly funny when Haruto is quite ordinary all things considered, unlike more tropey shoujo heros. Being kind to someone is a baseline, not a trait reserved for prince charming only). I don't want to go as far as saying it's insecurity projection, but it is a peculiar shift in views.
I don't really know where I'm going with all these disjointed thoughts, I just wanted to write them down now that we've come to one of the major turning points and I can finally write about some of this stuff without spoilers.
More than anything I'm just fascinated that so many readers had such different experiences and interpretations compared to when I read the manga blind. That in itself isn't unusual because everyone is different, but the stark contrast certainly was a newfound experience for me.
This also demonstrates why shoujo works tends to be isolated in their own bubble. This one crossing that hurdle and being placed in the spotlight among a much broader audience/demographic certainly created a more diverse pool of opinions compared the original release, whose audience was much more consistent in its reception (there was speculation there too, like the all three friends cheating theory, but it followed the story much more closely. I don't think I ever saw comments about this possibly being an intervention on the friends' part, for example). Excluding some of the misogyny I saw, I think that extra clash created a fun discussion environment.
Regardless, hope you'll stick around for the rest of the ride, there's still plenty to uncover!
Of course, it's really hard to imagine the exact outcome of any story, especially a mystery (I didn't guess this outcome when I read it myself, so I don't get any cookies either). But what stood out to me was how most people were going so far off course with the theories and purposefully avoiding the most basic of interpretations (ie they're simply cheating as presented in the story, which would then lead to the twist of only Kyouko cheating, so you'd have been half right if you just assumed the basic), that I was genuinely somewhat anxious I'd be letting folks down with the very simple conclusion, even though I didn't even write the story and am just translating it lol.
Naturally there is purposeful misdirection to complicate it, but overall the plot has not really veered too far off course from what it has initially presented to the reader, so it's interesting that some really complex theories have formed around it.
Perhaps this is the result of a somewhat unintended demographic reading this. Many people really focused on the mystery angle and drew complex narratives in the comments (totally understandable, who doesn't love to theory craft and try to identify the red herrings/misdirection), while the manga is more of a by-the-books shoujo/josei, and to me it's always been primarily a story about Mahoro's emancipation, not just a cheating mystery (even if that's the hook), so I always took the mystery at face value when I read it and simply put myself in Mahoro's shoes and assumed her worldview.
Another thing is that a lot of stuff is glossed over. Like yeah, this sting operation probably isn't very smart if you analyze it, but the goal of the story is clearly elsewhere so it doesn't bother really making everything perfect, just enough to preserve suspension of disbelief, which in turn makes the scene more spicy like in a TV drama.
Same with the timeline, you don't really see much of Mahoro's life outside of when she's investigating the affair (to the point where some folks even wondered if she worked at all, despite that being established in chapter 1, just not shown). Did you notice several months have passed since the start of the manga? Go back and read it, its mentioned in a throwaway line. We started in November and it's now somewhere around spring/summer. So we're really only shown the very important moments, all the rest of the story is trimmed and downtime abridged. The author has a plot to tell and isn't really concerned with the stuff around it (only to the point of maintaining suspension of disbelief).
Other things are what I suppose I would describe as "male-centeic takes in a female-centric work" for lack of a better expression. This mainly came across with regards to the perception of the male characters in the series.
For example, since chapter 1 some people have been defending or at least presuming Rei's innocence (either that he's not cheating or even that he's actually a nice guy and we're dealing with an unreliable narrator/perspective), whereas the jp audience unanimously called him a piece of shit since chapter 1 and most didn't even assume he wasn't cheating, since there are more signs pointing to it than not like the letter, the first pages of the manga, and the title/synopsis (plus his demeanor/behavior but those can always be misinterpreted).
If you take the story at face value, and especially if you're a woman who has dealt with people like Rei irl (they're... surprisingly more common than you think), that's the conclusion you invariably arrive at. The author, a woman herself, when writing to an audience also comprised mostly of women, clearly wrote Rei with those presuppositions in mind. It's a given that Rei is a bad person because his behaviors are so well known and common among the intended audience that the tidbits Mahoro mentions alone are enough to paint almost the whole picture. But in these comments a lot of people much prefer exploring alternative possibilities and presume Rei's innocence to a certain extent, if not entirely. Not to say who's right or wrong in this story's case (I ain't spoiling), just pointing out the stark difference in perception.
Another difference was the reception of Haruto. I was actually quite shocked so many people didn't like him because, when I first read these chapters, he just seemed like a goofy guy who liked to lighten the mood and was presented as such. Some commenters were even accusing him of taking advantage of Mahoro when all I saw was the two having completely reasonable banter (Mahoro even smacks his hand when he gets too close, clearly consciously establishing boundaries, which he respected). He hasn't pressured her to do anything or tried to put her in any awkward spots, he's just accompanying her and keeping things cool, something she explicitly appreciated because it helped her be more rational and less tense (many people overlooked the fact he dispelled her fears of Rei being in bed with Kyouko, saying Rei is unlikely to rent a suite just to sleep with a woman, so he at least on a surface level has her best interest in mind and is not taking unreasonable positions for personal gain). But hey, different strokes for different folks, if you don't like him that's that.
Though I do wonder if these commenters would react the same way with the genders reversed, considering the sheer volume of manga with horrible, toxic women that are full of "I can fix her/she can ruin me" comments. Not that I am criticizing those series' or comments' existence, just pointing out the polar opposite attitude when it's a man being... Just kinda silly(?) around a woman (it's particularly funny when Haruto is quite ordinary all things considered, unlike more tropey shoujo heros. Being kind to someone is a baseline, not a trait reserved for prince charming only). I don't want to go as far as saying it's insecurity projection, but it is a peculiar shift in views.
I don't really know where I'm going with all these disjointed thoughts, I just wanted to write them down now that we've come to one of the major turning points and I can finally write about some of this stuff without spoilers.
More than anything I'm just fascinated that so many readers had such different experiences and interpretations compared to when I read the manga blind. That in itself isn't unusual because everyone is different, but the stark contrast certainly was a newfound experience for me.
This also demonstrates why shoujo works tends to be isolated in their own bubble. This one crossing that hurdle and being placed in the spotlight among a much broader audience/demographic certainly created a more diverse pool of opinions compared the original release, whose audience was much more consistent in its reception (there was speculation there too, like the all three friends cheating theory, but it followed the story much more closely. I don't think I ever saw comments about this possibly being an intervention on the friends' part, for example). Excluding some of the misogyny I saw, I think that extra clash created a fun discussion environment.
Regardless, hope you'll stick around for the rest of the ride, there's still plenty to uncover!
Dex-chan lover
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>a cheater calls another cheater to look into a mirror first
Are we in a house of mirror by any chance?
Are we in a house of mirror by any chance?
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when I came into this I was expecting a fun mystery but I also excepted the possibility of reading a story of a woman learning more about the messy people around her so whether this is mostly played straight or there's an actual twist to it all I'm down.
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tldr in Fortnite terms:
Everyone thought this manga was gonna pull some 200 IQ trickshot ending, but really it was just a clean headshot—you saw what you got from the start. Most players (readers) kept overbuilding wild theories when the story was really just following the safe zone. The “cheating mystery” was the bait, but the real objective was Mahoro’s journey (her victory royale).
Some players misread Rei like he was secretly a good teammate, but the JP lobby instantly pegged him as a toxic griefer. Haruto got labeled sus too, even though he’s just that chill squadmate who cracks jokes and helps you stay calm under pressure. Basically: the author designed the match for a shoujo/josei audience, but when the shounen/mystery grinders dropped in, they played the map way differently.
👉 Don’t overthink the loot—sometimes the common AR does the job.
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Can someone just spoil the story already?
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These've indeed been insightful, I indeed hadn't noticed the timeframe.
This gives me the impression we're more forgiving in the west toward not noticing the little things and wouldn't automatically attribute such to malicious intent.
A "piece of shit" is too harsh in my opinion when there isn't any intent involved.
Particularly when the faults weren't talked about earlier, regardless of whether or not you think they should be resolved by default.
Bad person to many of us would require actual malicious intent rather than just someone being deficient.
I still choose not to attribute intent to Rei's faults.
I can't tell if he's doing such with ill will as daft a take as that may seem from the female perspective.
It stems for me from the fact he mentioned his romantic interest in Mahoro initially.
It's really poor taste to say that to someone who's having relationship problems and thus puts a lens over all later interactions with him involved.
I wouldn't even factor in these kinds of comments when they could be either joking or just gooners.
There's no proper thought behind such.
At the same time though, I've never actually read a manga which addresses the genuine things men find irritating in women.
The only aspect I can think of is the pecking order/bullying stuff but the love interest is always the victim and thus you don't get the POV of seeing your love interest act in such a nasty way.
If there were a manga about shit tests, insecurity projection (such as blaming them for something dreamt up overnight), passive agressivism and not actually being interested in fixing a problem, only venting, then I reckon the reactions would be similar to this manga.
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Well, my opinion of Rei sure went up with this chapter. His wife’s friend tried to get in his pants while talking shit about his wife, ofc he had to be harsh with her. I don’t really understand why Mahoro is shocked by this, she should be happy imo; Rei refusing her advances doesn’t change the fact that Kyouko betrayed her.
Now the question is, did Rei refuse cuz he’s faithful, or did he refuse just cuz Kyouko wasn’t his type ? The answer won’t change the fact that he’s not a good husband imo, but that would sure help Mahoro to get a divorce.
After seeing this chapter, my personal theory is that the 3 girls tried to get in his pants before, or maybe that one of them actually knew him before Mahoro met him, maybe they even dated then. Rei is probably cheating (if he really is) with another woman, that Mahoro isn’t suspecting.
Thanks for the translation
Now the question is, did Rei refuse cuz he’s faithful, or did he refuse just cuz Kyouko wasn’t his type ? The answer won’t change the fact that he’s not a good husband imo, but that would sure help Mahoro to get a divorce.
After seeing this chapter, my personal theory is that the 3 girls tried to get in his pants before, or maybe that one of them actually knew him before Mahoro met him, maybe they even dated then. Rei is probably cheating (if he really is) with another woman, that Mahoro isn’t suspecting.
Thanks for the translation
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The twist is that there is no twist
I'm partial to Unreliable Narrator. For whatever reason, she's in hyper critical mode right now. Things don't look good from this perspective, but she married him for some reason right? He seems like an annoying person in general and I fully expect a "the real affair was the dissatisfaction we noticed along the way" ending.
Rei types being common isn't that surprising, enough women picking them for this media to have an audience is more surprising (well, not surprising to misogynists
)"If you get divorced, how about we go out?" does not count as reasonable banter to some people, regardless of how goofy he's been since then. In the same way little things that Rei did painted him as a piece of shit to some people, that one proposition from Haruto instantly painted him as a wolf to some people and there isn't really any backtracking from that.
Glad you're enjoying it
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Rei is a blasphemous glasses denier as well? I guess we can add bad taste to his long laundry list of faults.
Thank you for the translation (glasses are cute dammit).
And I'm talking, like, really go out of its way to address it. Like how this manga does for men.
Thank you for the translation (glasses are cute dammit
).Same. Obviously, I'm sure they exist. But I've read a lot of manga across many different genres, and I'm struggling to remember one that addresses what you stated (hell, I think the CLOSEST I could think of that I've read is this (I recommend by the way if you haven't already read it); but this manga feels slightly more grounded compared to that one).
And I'm talking, like, really go out of its way to address it. Like how this manga does for men.
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I thought Kyouko was suss from when she was talking about her failing marriage but I thought we were going to get a misdirection where she was cheating, just not with Rei. Like a whole "All my friends have dark secrets.... just not that particular one"
I will say when they went to the roof top bar, and Haruto just HAPPENED to have slinky evening wearin his bag, I thought maybe it was maximum bait and there was going to be a surprise celebration for Mahoro. and that's why Rei had been acting weird, etc.
He could have been introduced after the divorce and he probably would have been cheered.
Rei is inconsiderate, but Haruto is a douche.
When Mahoro finally snaps at him and actually says what she wants and holds to her guns, Rei complies (incompetently but still). Even Kyouko calls out Mahoro for not speaking her mind.
No one is going to fault Mahoro for not wanting wanting put in the effort to fix her husband (people are going to question why she got married to the guy in the first place being this seems to be his default state and not something that appeared out of the blue) because she shouldn't have to make him a functional person but we also aren't going to demand Rei be strung up either.
But to your point:
I don't see there would be much different. Inconsiderate self-absorbed Mahoro & selfless Rei doing all the housework would be the same. Though usually in those set ups, the guy works his white-collar slave gig and comes home while the useless wife just shops and does things like shopping/cafes/spas with her friends. And the fact "Rei is sort of useless at home, but brings in most of the household income" is why the useless husband characters usually gets more support. If Rei was unemployed and just playing videogames/gatchas all day, he wouldn't get any support.
But very few manga have the male "bad spouse" be a complete drain on the household.
(and yes, she works, he got her to downplay her career etc. But it doesn't change he is the primary breadwinner and so isn't COMPLETELY useless)
No one was coming to the defense of Rukia's brother in Tsumi to Batsu no Spica once the truth of him leeching off his sister to gamble and drink was out.
The only thing that wouldn't map 1-to-1 would be femHaruto. Haruto's lines from a woman to a man wouldn't map without additional actions by femHaruto just due to dating dynamics. Like just imagine younger femHaruto going to Rei, giving him bedroom eyes, a sultry grin, touching his chest and saying "If you get divorced, why don't we date?".
Even when her brother says "Stop it! She jokes around like this all the time, ignore her", everything she does will now be tainted by her being a vixen.
Everything after that, Perfect Rebound Pixie Dream-Waifu showing up out of no where with zero flaws and little personality would get the exact same reaction as Perfectly Prepared Date Detective & Hairdresser Haruto does fromguys anyone with sense.
You can (sometimes) fix a bad partner with couple's counseling, you cannot fix a shitty person*. (inb4 'lol therapy or honest self improvement in Japan? Let alone manga Japan?')
Though I will say his reasonings for rejecting her are sort of weak and more "you aren't hot enough for me to cheat with" than any commitment to his wife.
edit: Forgot about him snapping at Mahoro earlier.
*Except for my favorite toxic waifu. I could totally fix her.
Like dude even he does hair, comes prepared for a swanky date at a bar.
You have manga like "I got tired of childhood friend now exgirlfriend's constant abuse" but the behavior of antagonist is so ridiculously over the top it hard to take seriously.
I will say when they went to the roof top bar, and Haruto just HAPPENED to have slinky evening wearin his bag, I thought maybe it was maximum bait and there was going to be a surprise celebration for Mahoro. and that's why Rei had been acting weird, etc.
Its less his personality and more his approach. He's doing the "Having trouble with your relationship? You should cheat on your husband with me. Haha j/k. Unless..." type behavior. As @MrMeh & @Birdulon point out, he is approaching a married woman who is having relationship troubles in a flirtatious way. Its scumbag behavior, and its made worse by this is clearly the author's ideal husbando (which is why in her mind it was OK for him to do with no further narrative justification).
He could have been introduced after the divorce and he probably would have been cheered.
Rei is inconsiderate, but Haruto is a douche.
Rei's main flaws are being inconsiderate/self-absorbed and not a mind reader. (Also controlled by his mother.)
When Mahoro finally snaps at him and actually says what she wants and holds to her guns, Rei complies (incompetently but still). Even Kyouko calls out Mahoro for not speaking her mind.
No one is going to fault Mahoro for not wanting wanting put in the effort to fix her husband (people are going to question why she got married to the guy in the first place being this seems to be his default state and not something that appeared out of the blue) because she shouldn't have to make him a functional person but we also aren't going to demand Rei be strung up either.
"I can fix her/she can ruin me" is mostly jokin, and you act like the usual Shoujo manga doesn't start with the FMC being sexually assaulted, usually by her eventual love interest, who she spends at least a good portion of the manga fixing.
But to your point:
I don't see there would be much different. Inconsiderate self-absorbed Mahoro & selfless Rei doing all the housework would be the same. Though usually in those set ups, the guy works his white-collar slave gig and comes home while the useless wife just shops and does things like shopping/cafes/spas with her friends. And the fact "Rei is sort of useless at home, but brings in most of the household income" is why the useless husband characters usually gets more support. If Rei was unemployed and just playing videogames/gatchas all day, he wouldn't get any support.
But very few manga have the male "bad spouse" be a complete drain on the household.
(and yes, she works, he got her to downplay her career etc. But it doesn't change he is the primary breadwinner and so isn't COMPLETELY useless)
No one was coming to the defense of Rukia's brother in Tsumi to Batsu no Spica once the truth of him leeching off his sister to gamble and drink was out.
The only thing that wouldn't map 1-to-1 would be femHaruto. Haruto's lines from a woman to a man wouldn't map without additional actions by femHaruto just due to dating dynamics. Like just imagine younger femHaruto going to Rei, giving him bedroom eyes, a sultry grin, touching his chest and saying "If you get divorced, why don't we date?".
Even when her brother says "Stop it! She jokes around like this all the time, ignore her", everything she does will now be tainted by her being a vixen.
Everything after that, Perfect Rebound Pixie Dream-Waifu showing up out of no where with zero flaws and little personality would get the exact same reaction as Perfectly Prepared Date Detective & Hairdresser Haruto does from
Rei is kind of a shit husband, but he's (so far) not a shit person.
You can (sometimes) fix a bad partner with couple's counseling, you cannot fix a shitty person*. (inb4 'lol therapy or honest self improvement in Japan? Let alone manga Japan?')
Though I will say his reasonings for rejecting her are sort of weak and more "you aren't hot enough for me to cheat with" than any commitment to his wife.
edit: Forgot about him snapping at Mahoro earlier.
*Except for my favorite toxic waifu. I could totally fix her.
I dislike him for that reason, but in addition he's being set up as "Le Perfect Rebound, But No one understands him but the FMC and that's why he's still available".
Like dude even he does hair, comes prepared for a swanky date at a bar.
Preach.
You have manga like "I got tired of childhood friend now exgirlfriend's constant abuse" but the behavior of antagonist is so ridiculously over the top it hard to take seriously.
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First off, hard disagree with saying anything equal to "western readers got tricked". Everyone got tricked. This was a twist not influenced by where you are from or who you are.
The comments are a bit jumbled but the overall persisting mood always was "Rei is a cheating asshole and she has to do something about her situation". I never felt most people avoiding the most obvious interpretation, at all. It felt more like "it is so obvious, it doesn't need to be stated over and over again".
Many of the off-kilter approaches and theories were imo very clear in what they wanted to be. I feel the matter of fact discussions always were on track.
I personally only got a handful of people unironically "misreading Rei as a good teammate" and labeling Haruto as "sus" (ugh).
As for including demographics in that discussion, I feel like the fact that Mangadex and Manga websites and apps like the one this series can be officially read on work differently has to be stated. Readership clearly will be quite different and more heterogeneous.
The comments will be different even if you don't include the usual JP - West differences.
I would however go as far as to say that the comments would be quite a bit more similar if the work was released on a website functioning similarly (in how it caters to people and who is on it). I believe that fact alone makes most of the points moot.
I do also think you somewhat misinterpreted many of the comments and the overall mood here. The western openly confrontational mindset and trolling and all that stuff is clearly reflected in the comments, as always. But other than that, I do honestly think that the reception isn't THAT different. Rei is a cheater asshole BUT THERE MIGHT BE MORE. Haruto seems like a great guy BUT HE IS OVERBEARING AND ANNOYING etc. Guess the missing /s or them not outright typing "murder Rei" or repeatedly calling her queen might've been the cause?
Darekpawlo's comment sadly mostly read like incorrect parroting without understanding which made everything seem more ignorant, even if fluent in gamer lingo, lmao. Good effort tho.
The comments are a bit jumbled but the overall persisting mood always was "Rei is a cheating asshole and she has to do something about her situation". I never felt most people avoiding the most obvious interpretation, at all. It felt more like "it is so obvious, it doesn't need to be stated over and over again".
Many of the off-kilter approaches and theories were imo very clear in what they wanted to be. I feel the matter of fact discussions always were on track.
I personally only got a handful of people unironically "misreading Rei as a good teammate" and labeling Haruto as "sus" (ugh).
As for including demographics in that discussion, I feel like the fact that Mangadex and Manga websites and apps like the one this series can be officially read on work differently has to be stated. Readership clearly will be quite different and more heterogeneous.
The comments will be different even if you don't include the usual JP - West differences.
I would however go as far as to say that the comments would be quite a bit more similar if the work was released on a website functioning similarly (in how it caters to people and who is on it). I believe that fact alone makes most of the points moot.
I do also think you somewhat misinterpreted many of the comments and the overall mood here. The western openly confrontational mindset and trolling and all that stuff is clearly reflected in the comments, as always. But other than that, I do honestly think that the reception isn't THAT different. Rei is a cheater asshole BUT THERE MIGHT BE MORE. Haruto seems like a great guy BUT HE IS OVERBEARING AND ANNOYING etc. Guess the missing /s or them not outright typing "murder Rei" or repeatedly calling her queen might've been the cause?
Darekpawlo's comment sadly mostly read like incorrect parroting without understanding which made everything seem more ignorant, even if fluent in gamer lingo, lmao. Good effort tho.
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Its a very Japanese mindset I don't know if I can properly convey having only a conceptual grasp myself.
The issue isn't that he shot down Kyouko its that he was a prick about it and insulted her honor instead of being polite about. It'll read to westerner as him merely casting "Begone, Thot" as a 4th level spell to make it abundantly clear he wants no part in any NTR plotlines, but to a Japanese person he's being overly and unnecessarily cruel, especially with some of the digs he gets in.
the "proper" way would have been to have thanked her for seeing him that way and all the attentions she gave him but he cannot return her feelings and then excusing himself.
Japan is very consensus-focused & conflict adverse.
As a sort of bad example because no one actually behaves like that in real life anymore, think of the average Manga confession. To a western audience, responding to someone saying they like you with an immediate and firm no is polite, to the Japanese its insulting if they don't at least 'think about it' for a day/week and come back bowing "I'm sorry I can't accept your feelings at this time"
tl;dr:
No, she's never happy, refuses to talk about what makes her unhappy or do anything to change the conditions causing it until she snaps, and thats why her relationship is failing.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2018
- Messages
- 386
I'm somewhat surprised by the us versus them mentality in pointing fingers saying you all [bar the "3 or 4 comments from hundreds] don't get it and don't understand, etc. etc. etc.
Now I'm curious what these comment threads were like to prompt such a detailed dive into the topic; I can't say I've read them myself. Maybe it's best not to.
It doesn't matter if they're a hot younger man, a sexy older woman, a seedy senior, or anyone really, aside from maybe a young child who isn't yet socialized to know better. If a person's gut response is to suggest hooking up after hearing that someone they just met for the first time is having relationship issues, that will strongly affect my evaluation of them.
I also judge the characters who succumb to that sort of pressure, mind you, which is a big complaint I have about many male-centric love triangle or harem-esque stories where the emergence of a fresh female love interest into the setting suddenly causes the male lead to question their existing feelings after all of five minutes.
Admittedly, it is fiction and I myself frequently read works that involve tropes like the stereotypical cold duke of the north who is emotionally, verbally, and sometimes physically abusive towards the main character who will eventually win them over by the end of the story... but I also recognize that those love interest characters are extremely toxic and would not be appropriate in real life, even if it can compose a compelling fictional narrative. Haruto is nowhere near those genocidal flags, but I'd still be wary of him irl.
Now I'm curious what these comment threads were like to prompt such a detailed dive into the topic; I can't say I've read them myself. Maybe it's best not to.
I would 100% consider Haruto a red flag, or at least insensitive irl. If you know someone is in a relationship, married no less, it's just not okay to flirt with them unless you have a close enough relationship where it won't be misunderstood or the context allows for it (e.g. script for a play, roles in a game, open relationship, etc.). In this story, Haruto did it after finding out she was undergoing what would presumably be an incredibly difficult situation. It was also their first time speaking to each other.
It doesn't matter if they're a hot younger man, a sexy older woman, a seedy senior, or anyone really, aside from maybe a young child who isn't yet socialized to know better. If a person's gut response is to suggest hooking up after hearing that someone they just met for the first time is having relationship issues, that will strongly affect my evaluation of them.
I also judge the characters who succumb to that sort of pressure, mind you, which is a big complaint I have about many male-centric love triangle or harem-esque stories where the emergence of a fresh female love interest into the setting suddenly causes the male lead to question their existing feelings after all of five minutes.
Admittedly, it is fiction and I myself frequently read works that involve tropes like the stereotypical cold duke of the north who is emotionally, verbally, and sometimes physically abusive towards the main character who will eventually win them over by the end of the story... but I also recognize that those love interest characters are extremely toxic and would not be appropriate in real life, even if it can compose a compelling fictional narrative. Haruto is nowhere near those genocidal flags, but I'd still be wary of him irl.
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Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2023
- Messages
- 281
That's too much reading, can we get a subway surfers gameplay video in half the screen l.
