Kusunoki-san wa Koukou Debut ni Shippai Shite Iru - Ch. 44.1 - Why Do I Even Like Him? (First Part)

[Qnomei]

I'm glad Otobe has had the realisation of "wait I like him for really flimsy reasons", but I don't understand why she's letting him decide if she dates the guy who confessed to her. What's the logic there?

She's trying to sus out his feelings for her without asking him directly.

 

[gedearya]

Too scared to get rejected so she offloads the entire process to her crush

---

Meanwhile....

There was a tweet where the author was shocked that everybody voted for Hebikawa.

a kind and perfect beauty heroine ? meh boring
a mean sadistic side character that would absolutely dominated you? hell yeahh

 

[Hassaanrulz]

Not like confessing to someone just because you saw them in a maid costume is any better.

It is. Maids are the greatest human invention and the tomboy is cute

 

[Esgar]

I'm with the author on that one tbh. She kinda sucks. Obviously written to be an antagonist and past trauma and not much else. Guy's only reaction to her so far has been "fuck off."

And he is objectively right in that. It's unhinged how so many people just overlook how she treated him and how she treats others in general. Hell, they were much quicker to treat the MC as the bad guy despite being her victim. It's just... idk it just felt hopeless during those chapters when she was introduced again.

I'll take "boring" Kusunoki over the literal snake any time. It's just that guys on the internet tend to prefer the "bad" girl aesthetic more, maybe because they've been slowly trained by recent media to be masochists.

 

[colorlesseatstomboys]

I'm glad I'm not in a mood to read manga nor rant.

 

[UdenEmpati]

And he is objectively right in that. It's unhinged how so many people just overlook how she treated him and how she treats others in general. Hell, they were much quicker to treat the MC as the bad guy despite being her victim. It's just... idk it just felt hopeless during those chapters when she was introduced again.

I'll take "boring" Kusunoki over the literal snake any time. It's just that guys on the internet tend to prefer the "bad" girl aesthetic more, maybe because they've been slowly trained by recent media to be masochists.

I know for me - it's because Hebikawa breaks the mould of the story.

Remove her character from the narrative and this becomes yet another "quiet MC chases perfect class idol", with the added caveat of "perfect class idol" had no self-esteem for the first bit - but don't worry, she's so naturally talented in everything she tries to do that she'll still immediately rise to the top of the social ladder while being demure and modest the whole way through.

Hebikawa is the outlier to the gimmick formula, and makes this story stand out from all the others in its specifc genre categorization. For me, that makes the story worth reading over the others that are like it.

 

[WaterSoluble]

I'll take "boring" Kusunoki over the literal snake any time. It's just that guys on the internet tend to prefer the "bad" girl aesthetic more, maybe because they've been slowly trained by recent media to be masochists.

Trying to make real-world assumptions about people based on their fictional preferences is as misguided as trying to make real-world assumptions about people based on their kinks. Most people simply like whatever characters and storylines they find interesting, and aren't terribly concerned about the 'morality' of people and plotlines that are ultimately just make-believe.

 

[Friendly-Sentence710]

Poor Moe. Spent so long being a tomboy, she never prepared to have feelings.

Not like confessing to someone just because you saw them in a maid costume is any better.

I mean can you blame him for having excellent taste AND being cultured?

first love and unstable teenage romance drive you dizzy

Thank you for translating

Hormones are a hell of a drug.

 

[UdenEmpati]

Trying to make real-world assumptions about people based on their fictional preferences is as misguided as trying to make real-world assumptions about people based on their kinks. Most people simply like whatever characters and storylines they find interesting, and aren't terribly concerned about the 'morality' of people and plotlines that are ultimately just make-believe.

there's an argument that disparaging an entire swath of people based on their response to an online popularity poll is kinda Hebikawa-coded behavior, ironically enough.

 

[Esgar]

there's an argument that disparaging an entire swath of people based on their response to an online popularity poll is kinda Hebikawa-coded behavior, ironically enough.

I'm not sure if you're talking about me, but if you are:

This feels like a wild accusation. During the chapter when she literally forced herself on top of him when he was feeling ill from the trauma of seeing her again, acting all smug, people were legitimately saying that "she did nothing wrong" and that he just "made up his trauma." That's what I'm referring to when it comes to me feeling hopeless about some readers of this manga.

You're saying that I'm the same as the person who actively bullies and tries to ruin other people's lives for her own amusement? Because I disliked how people treated her as some misunderstood saint and blamed the MC for "whining" over feeling hurt by this character?

I understand that yall love her, but isnt that going too far? Why not just accept that, yes, she is a very bad person, but that you like that about her? Why go through all this effort to make it seem like it's the opposite? That she is somehow some saint while the MC is wrong for "feeling" like she did him any wrong? Because we all know that's not true and if she wasnt like that, yall wouldnt like her.

I would have no problem with readers acknowledging that and saying that they love her character because she is bad. It's the "she did nothing wrong" and "the MC is a bitch for even being slightly hurt by her" crowd that bothers me. The fact that this alone makes you make some smug remark about me "being like Hebikawa" is just... yeah that does make me feel hopeless, wont lie. There were people back then who legitimately described treating real people in their lives just like she did and claimed that it's OK because if they were bothered by that they were "weak." So yeah, I do kinda judge people when they say things like that.

 

[Qnomei]

It is. Maids are the greatest human invention and the tomboy is cute

To be fair, she wasn't quite a real maid. She doesn't have a skateboard.

 

[UdenEmpati]

I'm not sure if you're talking about me, but if you are:

This feels like a wild accusation. During the chapter when she literally forced herself on top of him when he was feeling ill from the trauma of seeing her again, acting all smug, people were legitimately saying that "she did nothing wrong" and that he just "made up his trauma." That's what I'm referring to when it comes to me feeling hopeless about some readers of this manga.

You're saying that I'm the same as the person who actively bullies and tries to ruin other people's lives for her own amusement? Because I disliked how people treated her as some misunderstood saint and blamed the MC for "whining" over feeling hurt by this character?

I understand that yall love her, but isnt that going too far? Why not just accept that, yes, she is a very bad person, but that you like that about her? Why go through all this effort to make it seem like it's the opposite? That she is somehow some saint while the MC is wrong for "feeling" like she did him any wrong? Because we all know that's not true and if she wasnt like that, yall wouldnt like her.

I would have no problem with readers acknowledging that and saying that they love her character because she is bad. It's the "she did nothing wrong" and "the MC is a bitch for even being slightly hurt by her" crowd that bothers me. The fact that this alone makes you make some smug remark about me "being like Hebikawa" is just... yeah that does make me feel hopeless, wont lie. There were people back then who legitimately described treating real people in their lives just like she did and claimed that it's OK because if they were bothered by that they were "weak." So yeah, I do kinda judge people when they say things like that.

That's an actual concern, and I don't hold anything against you having misgivings about people who act like that.

It's just that guys on the internet tend to prefer the "bad" girl aesthetic more, maybe because they've been slowly trained by recent media to be masochists.

this is what I was being pithy about.

Because that sentence reads like you're lumping a person like me who just enjoy complex & imperfect characters into the same category as the type of people you describe above, and are making some sweeping negative judgement about the whole non-monolithic lot, and that sort of broad-stroke "disparaging" is, as I said before, the kind of "looking down on" mindset that Hebikawa showcased.

I never said that I "love" Hebikawa, only that I can understand why she'd win a popularity poll, because I personally enjoy the characterization of Hebikawa more than I do Kusunoki. I would infinitely prefer to know Kusunoki in real life over someone like Hebikawa, but as a story with a narrative built around fictional characters, I think Hebikawa has more range and dynamism to her, and makes the story more interesting to read.

You're inferring things about me that I never said, and again - that's just making judgments about my tastes when I've said nothing to indicate the truth from my end beyond my preferences in types of characters as they relate to their roles within the story itself.

If that wasn't your intent, then that's one thing - but it's how it came across.

 

[FiddlePop]

That's a heavy ask Moe.
Let's see where this will lead us

 

[Esgar]

That's an actual concern, and I don't hold anything against you having misgivings about people who act like that.



this is what I was being pithy about.

Because that sentence reads like you're lumping a person like me who just enjoy complex & imperfect characters into the same category as the type of people you describe above, and are making some sweeping negative judgement about the whole non-monolithic lot, and that sort of broad-stroke "disparaging" is, as I said before, the kind of "looking down on" mindset that Hebikawa showcased.

I never said that I "love" Hebikawa, only that I can understand why she'd win a popularity poll, because I personally enjoy the characterization of Hebikawa more than I do Kusunoki. I would infinitely prefer to know Kusunoki in real life over someone like Hebikawa, but as a story with a narrative built around fictional characters, I think Hebikawa has more range and dynamism to her, and makes the story more interesting to read.

You're inferring things about me that I never said, and again - that's just making judgments about my tastes when I've said nothing to indicate the truth from my end beyond my preferences in types of characters as they relate to their roles within the story itself.

If that wasn't your intent, then that's one thing - but it's how it came across.

I think it's just us misunderstanding each other and me being unclear. I was referring to the people that I described above, the ones during those chapters (and now) that claim that Hebikawa didnt do anything wrong or that the MC is just being whiny about her. I respect those that like her because she is bad, maybe because they are masochistic or whatever, but make sure to acknowledge that she is bad and that the MC was genuinely hurt by her in a terrible way. My comment about the bad girl aesthetic was more of an explanation why some guys may be taking that stance, maybe because they want to justify their masochistic attraction without admitting to it. An attraction which, on its own, is not a bad thing nor something I would judge.

 

[kaijuwega]

---

Meanwhile....

There was a tweet where the author was shocked that everybody voted for Hebikawa.

The villain gets:
*the best lines
*the best theme song
*the coolest looking merch
*squashes jobbers for breakfast
*sets the bar, the standards and what's at stake for the plotline
*and therefore gets the biggest pop when their theme song hits and they strut down the ramp into the ring.

Who knew?

 

[LeonsamaX]

Man I forgot how tiny she was 😭

 

[StLL]

She's going to get shutdown..

 

[ppaaccoojrf]

side heroines are usually more appealing to read since most authors not trying to make them perfect woman like the main girl. but those struggles actually what makes them interesting

To be fair, Kusunoki isn't perfect, she's just naive because she's stuck in her 6th grader mindset when it comes to relationships with other people.

 

[ppaaccoojrf]

ok so kusunoki once had a bestfriend who stop being friend with her because she reject him maybe?

We'll learn more about this later on but I doubt he was a "best friend". He was probably one person in a group of friends that Kusunoki had, and his words when he got rejected ("no guy could ever be friends with you") probably became a sort of trauma as she wasn't yet mature enough to understand relationships.

 

[UdenEmpati]

To be fair, Kusunoki isn't perfect, she's just naive because she's stuck in her 6th grader mindset when it comes to relationships with other people.

No, she's written to excel at everything she tries, the first time she tries it.

• asks Keisuke for help with a test; Keisuke studies with her, gets a 95; Kusunoki gets a 100.
• during dodgeball, Big Kid gets a whole team out, then Kusunoki solos him with ease (2v1-ing Hebikawa at the same time, mind)
• volleyball at the beach; 2v2, and Kusunoki & partner aren't even winded after trouncing Keisuke & partner, who're left gasping on the ground
• gets picked as lead for play, never done it before, has standout performance with a bit of improv even
• can't make friends and is awkward, whole reason for needing Keisuke's help with 'debut'; first time at café with three girls, makes friends with each within a couple lines of dialogue, winning them over entirely.
• and, during flashback when she meets Otobe, it's when she's a goalie during a game of football, and Otobe gets made at the boys for "going easy on Kusunoki" because as an elementary schooler Kusunoki's athletic enough to block every goal attempt.

Sure, she appears awkward, but other than some as-yet-unexplained backstory from elementary school, she has never once failed or even stumbled at anything she's tried, surpassing others even when they put in the equivalent work & effort.

That sort of characterization is why people call her 'perfect' and why her character also is deemed less interesting than someone like Hebikawa that has actual faults (not 'oh no I'm so awkward').

Sure, Kusunoki is a much kinder character, but she is the far more flat, dynamically, of the two.