Isekai Yakkyoku - Ch. 30.1 - Each One's Utmost (First Part)

[Yabster_907]

@alidan
I'll only talk about a couple of points because I don't really have that much knowledge on most of your points save a few.

1) The question is why wouldn't areas be overzealous? This was a novel virus so little was known, if anything at the time it was the right call to be that fanatical. Like you said we'll see if the lockdowns were truly working but better to be wrong then horribly wrong.

2) A few areas hit bad is more than enough to encourage flattening the curve in other areas. Accounting for the fact that some states/areas do not have the same access to medical care as others (Alaska for an example). Sure it was not that bad in most places but the fact that it can happen does not help that point. Not only that but the fact that medical bills can be outrageous even with insurance (but not much jobs mean no insurance from work + a lot of people live paycheck-to-paycheck) is a detriment itself. We really don't know any long-term side effects of catching COVID.

3) Few deaths were only from COVID (since there was an additional factor = disease, etc) is supported by the numbers but we need to remember deaths that we count things as COVID is a common and justified practice. Example, someone does not die due to cancer alone but the complications it causes to the rest of the body. By introducing COVID into a patient's equation then that can be considered the cause for that was the reason of the patient not being able to recover. Does your example of motorcyclist deaths take into account the amount of those who caught COVID in any point of time (including a stay at the hospital) and then passing away? To emphasize the point, COVID can be very well the reason why a patient passes away due to the complications it causes.

 

[meling910]

@alidan
I never comment on this site but after reading your comment trying to defend how bad is this president handle this pandemic, I had to share my point of view on it. First of all a little bit about my background, I am a citizen of America just got it last year, and originally come from Asia near China. So, back in late 2019 in my Asia community start to share a couple of news and video clip of some Chinese people talking about a new disease spreading in China and their government of course like usual try to cover it. At that time, I'm a little bit concern about it, but because it too far from me. I don't think about it much. The disease starts getting worse and the number of those pictures and clips keeps increasing every day and I know this is serious. In January, America got the first confirmed case and the travel with China still isn't banned yet and our president still praising on Twitter about China handling the coronavirus: “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”. Later, I find out he also disband the White House pandemic response team in May 2018 and I know this will not going well.
Our president didn't stop the travel from China until February, but at that time the virus already spread to Europe, and the death case by COVID already appear there too. You should know around February and March is the spring break time and people traveling a lot. Our president keeps playing the virus down so people of course think it isn't something dangerous and keep their traveling plan. The airport only does serious checking on those travel from China and ignore those from Europe. As the result, we got hit by a big wave of COVID cases. The ban didn't come until it was too late. The school that I use to study has a group of their students travel to Spain for spring break although all these news warnings about the dangers of it, they simply just ignore it because the president said this virus is just like the flu. I live in a red state so those people really believe and listen to what he said. Then, those students and family travel with them end up got trap at the Spain airport when travel ban comes down and stuck at these for a couple of weeks, and lucky none of them got COVID. But, those states like New York or California didn't get that lucky because they have a bigger volume of traveling people, and of course they become those that got hit hard by the virus first not just because people don't listen and keep parting. Go tell that to those people at the beach in Florida, Texas...
This is just a start and I think I should stop here because, down the line, the president keeps the same mistake by playing it down and makes the situation kept getting worse. Don't believe me just searching the timeline of Trump's response to COVID and get the summary for yourself. Or just simply look at all his tweets during this whole time post by him and no one else talking about COVID and you can see why he fail so hard on handle this pandemic. He can do so much better by simply just tweet on his account how dangerous this virus is, or told his supporter to take all the precaution and we shouldn't have hit that death toll passes 200,000.

 

[Glomoro]

Wow, manga mobs did something right and sunk that death trap before going aboard and spreading it to everyone? I'm surprised. Almost impressive.

Well, I think this would've been their first instinct either way really. At least knowing that the ship was full of plague carriers and the deck was covered in dead. The only reason they even considered actually looking for survivors while having that knowledge is because they also have some of the medicine on hand, or could potentially bring the ship back to people in full equipment. Risks still outweighed anything else, so they went with the classic instead. Probably a good call, they're busy making sure nobody else is trying to go ashore somewhere else along the coast besides the one place all these chucklefucks were supposed to be heading.

Also, I didn't realize we were supposed to make whiny comments on COVID instead of the manga, my bad. But I can't think of anything whiny so I'll just leave my manga comment here....on this manga website...

Ah, yes. Uh, Corona bad. I think that covers it for both of us. Seriously though, guys. I know, this part of the story is feeling extremely topical, all things considered. But the author of this probably never intended for any of it to line up with an actual global health issue when they were writing the original novel between 2015 and now. Odds just kinda place this somewhere in a volume before 2019-2020, I dunno. Solving an old timey plague is pretty much just a trope as far as this sort of story is concerned either way, though.

Seriously, if a main character has medical knowledge beyond the norm, this is the kind of thing authors throw at them. What else are they supposed to do, make an entire story arc about a national syphilis crisis? I mean, I would probably read that, but it's a little less urgent than "this thing is killin' people now."

 

[jonsmth]

@GrimGriefer

I thought they would of used fire arrows to burn the deck before sinking it to at least roast the corpses on top...

They would have to be really close to get some flaming arrows on the deck. Even then, it could take too long to get a fire going and the wind can bring the ship too close to shore in the time it takes to go up in flames.

 

[mrmm]

I wonder if the disease could spread through sea water...

 

[Kierlak]

Lol, all these people buying into the covid hysteria. The death numbers have been so inflated with car/motorcycle crashes, suicides, cancer, heart attacks, and every other conceivable type of death that the entire debacle leans deeply into 'hoax' territory. You have something along the lines of a 0.004% chance of dying from it, stop acting like it's fucking ebola.

 

[marksman12]

@Kierlak thank you Mangadex User Kierlak. Clearly you and only you more than anyone understand the nuances of a multinational pandemic more than any professional body or practitioner of medicine.
Dumbfuck.

 

[Zephyrus]

@Kierlak
We do not allow the spread of misinformation on MD. Please stop posting misinformation.

 

[aedrian9]

@jonsmth @GrimGriefer
Hmmm... don't know but maybe the sea salt would kill the bacteria and not many bacteria (Like disease bacteria i mean) survive in the ocean given that the temperature varies at times (BIG Maybe, not really sure)
Though I also thought that putting the corpse on fire would have also reassured that the disease would never survive

 

[Seventwentyseven]

@Kierlak yo man stop, we don’t need to hear any misinformation you say

 

[zarian2]

@GrimGriefer Lets be honest, that is like, 32 steps beyond what a typical rando mob is capable of planning lol

 

[Kierlak]

@Zephyrus 'misinformation' lol. You mean stop posting the opposing viewpoint. Comrade Stalin approves of your authoritarianism, tovarisch. Let no one question the party line.

 

[alidan]

@Yabster_907
I 100% agree with the lockdowns even early on, but as time went on and on, we found out more, we found out how long it was here (some sewer tests say it was already here in force in december in some cities) I agreed with them less. they were always for flattening the curve not for stopping it because that would never happen.
on the better to be wrong then right... the death toll that a full lock down would have, the ripple effects, are a known quantity, we locked down because early on it was a coinflip on which was worse.

on point 2, contrary to what many people believe, america does have some forms of free healthcare, im on one of those plans, and they also give tax breaks and help to medical bills, but its not automatic. but you also have to understand just the extent a recession is damaging to the economy and the knock on effect that the shutdown had, there were points where it was honestly in the air if we would be able to have water treatment due to CO2 shortages, not sure if its still as bad now, but no water treatment has potentially a more devastating effect then covid would have had as one example.

the motorcycle one is one that pops up fairly often due to the person in question at the very best being asymptomatic, he took a corner bad and died that way, but due to the pay out, it was written as a covid death. your example of a complication due to cancer, while yes im more willing to accept that as a covid death where covid was the cause, at the same time im less ok overall with someone who is so immunocompromised that any illness can be life threatening being added to a covid cause of death. an example... lets say morbid obesity, i'm ok with a covid death there being ruled a covid death because it was the covid that killed them without it they would have lived, not healthy, but they would have lived, but the cancer patient... if I remember how treatment works, you kill the immune system during treatment to the point things like a common cold could be life threatening, at that point im less willing to go along with it being listed a covid death as any number of illnesses could have been the one that did it... up to me I would list the deaths as 'covid caused' and 'opportunistic covid caused' to differentiate the risk.

@meling910
i'm going to snippet things to respond to.

In January, America got the first confirmed case and the travel with China still isn't banned yet and our president still praising on Twitter about China handling the coronavirus

This is the face, this is what the people are told, my understanding is behind the scenes it was taken very seriously, but the face you show the public is that its being handled. Think of it this way, if the government knew for a fact that an asteroid was on collision course with earth, would we be told up front as soon as its know? no, we would be told relatively last minute because the panic would make like hell for everyone.

Later, I find out he also disband the White House pandemic response team in May 2018 and I know this will not going well.

He didn't, this is one of the ways that you are lied to by saying 'she married her brother while it rained'
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/10/fact-check-white-house-didnt-fire-pandemic-response-2018/3437356001/
I dont know how bias they are, but here are some key points

"In 2018 Trump fired the ENTIRE pandemic response team," one recent social media post reads. "Keep re-posting this until the election."

note that second part of the quote

He also said that the reorganization of the NSC was necessary after the "bloat that occurred" under Obama, when the staff quadrupled to nearly 400 – a figure that even members of the Obama administration agreed was too large.

you can look at the rest, but this was used as a political attack vector.

Our president didn't stop the travel from China until February

it was at the end of january when it got written, and feb 2 when it went into effect, at this point 200 people in china died, the full potential severity was as of yet known.
as a follow up to this, a few months ago democrats are trying to push through legislation to make travel bans illegal and repeal all currently in place.

and of course they become those that got hit hard by the virus first not just because people don't listen and keep parting.

https://ny.eater.com/2020/4/10/21215170/nyc-mayor-dining-out-restaurants-bars-coronavirus-nyc
the long and short is in the title of the article
"NYC Mayor Says It Wasn’t A Mistake to Tell People To Keep Dining Out in Mid-March"
this article was written april 10th, there are others who thought the same, just as an eff you to trump when we were getting close to the 'lock down' phase

the president keeps the same mistake by playing it down and makes the situation kept getting worse

The president is there to give you hope, to let you know they are handling the situation, and trump remained positive as long as he could. remember early on, it looked like it was a coinflip if you were going to need hospitalization, and from there a 1 in 5 of dying, no one is going to go on tv and tell a nation 'we are looking at around 40 million deaths from the illness itself, and even more as hospitals can not cope'

we shouldn't have hit that death toll passes 200,000.

this is arguable, because even in early lockdown they were fully expecting 1-2 million deaths

but someone said something that I think is a great point of view, if you think trump is the child in the room, then where were the adults during all this? we were told by medical experts early on don't buy masks, then they became a requirement, and due to the nature of the country at the moment it became political. The country isn't a dictatorship run by trump, the democrats at the time could have done something, offered anything up, but they called trump racist for banning china travel, the bs impeachment didn't help focus attention on important things either, the contrarian nature of the way they treated any advisements from the president... this is something that can also go on.

when I say, trump or no trump, we wouldn't have handled any better, isn't me saying trump is great, there is a lot of shit he should have done sooner, but a lot of what he would have had to do is expand executive power and he didn't, and I give him credit there. the democratic side of this showed us from the moment this was a thing that they either wouldn't have banned travel or they wouldn't have taken it remotely seriously till well after the hospitals could no longer cope. The main issue is no longer covid, we have more or less flattened the curve (the curve essentially being how many cases go to hospitals to not overrun them), but due to the political nature of the lockdowns and the extent, new york very well may become the new detroit. we will know in the future how far reaching the lockdowns damaged everything, but at that point it's more an autopsy than anything else.

 

[Meri08]

Thank you for the update!

 

[Yabster_907]

@alidan Thanks for replying!

I agree mostly with your points but I want to ask do you think COVID-19 and the lockdowns showed the problems that were already affecting America? Such as partisanship and the workforce (how people's insurance is tied with their job) in general.

@Kierlak Bruh there is literally someone with an opposing view here and your saying moderator is authoritarian? COVID-19 is only called deadly because it can kill those with underlying conditions (60% of America, cause remember we aren't exactly the healthiest nation).

 

[Lolipop_Candy]

@mrmm

I wonder if the disease could spread through sea water...

Despite its saltiness, seawater is rich of minerals. Some bacteria can survive and live in seawater. It's not unusual if you get diarrhea from sea water.

A researcher's study about plague in Arab Maghreb (Northern Africa), Y. pestis can adapt and survive in sea water and even high concentrated mineral salt water.

BUT..... seawater itself is a jungle, and there is also predatory between microbe. In this case, Y. pestis might be eaten by Hylemonella gracilis. Where Y. pestis population is dwindled by the presence of H. gracis. Probably, there are another predator bacteria for Y. pestis.

So, there is chance of you'll get infected from the seawater, but the "Rules of Nature" in the liquid jungle called "sea" can cancelling the worst pathogen you might get.

 

[alidan]

@Yabster_907 I had a substantial amount more written, but I scrapped everything but this part, because even as a liberal, most of my hobbies give me a feeling of being behind enemy lines.

This rolls into our media and media world wide typically being fairly establishment at best, left at worst, which sees them bury stories if it helps their friends, see epstein as an example we know of and see trumps daily hate despite how many peace deals and a trafficking ring bust in the last few months, trying to end wars in the middle east. what we get is always so skewed in one way that I honestly cant tell if there are any single sources that are well informed in the country, the best you can do is watch raw video but that's a full time job at that point, so you need someone pressing it. All we are ever told are lies across the board form mainstream. take healthcare as an example, the numbers they say, for taking on the several million that don't have it, the only way I can get those numbers is if I assume every one of them has stage 3 cancer and we are aggressively treating them. The media either lying to us, or covering for what they believe in is by far the most damaging thing to the country.

I think that's about all I can say on this site.

 

[xoxa]

so many english words in this comment section, I'm one of those lazy guys who dont read many words on forum.... excepts spoiler.

 

[jimmyclear]

This is the down-side of being a sailor, you need to leave the dead at sea.

@Lolipop_Candy

Its the "Poison vs Poison" deal. The venom of a scorpion is said to be effective against M. Tuberculosis. The Diplocentrus melici Scorpion is what biologist study and prod to find if they can help.

Chinese medicine attempted this, but had "Mixed Results". Mixed being "Some couldn't take it, other did awesome."

 

[Lolipop_Candy]

@jimmyclear
Yes it's like "Neutralize Venom with Poison", but in this case, bacteria is living animal, not a chemical substance. If the sea is poisonous only to purify the microbe, welp..... we're all dead since the time when Adam and Eve are banished to earth

If we see thoroughly, not only the sea, but also the soil also have microworld food chain. That's why burial is the best way to dispose the dead, rather than cremation.