Rework "Villainess" tag to include manga with male leads :rejected:

[BestBoy]

@Halo I don't know what post you're talking about. I went through all 107 myself right before I made that comment. Regardless, the logic still stands seeing as the other gendered tags are restricted to their specific gender as well.

 

[solstice258]

Idk if this was suggested before but on mangaupdates it's written like this: "villain/ess"
But as far as I can see, there aren't many male villain manga so I don't know if it's worth changing

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

Idk if this was suggested before but on mangaupdates it's written like this: "villain/ess"

Could this be it? The compromise we were all searching for? (Well, not all of us I guess.)

If the Villainess tag were changed to 'Villain/ess' or even 'Villain(ess)', would that be better?

And/or, if the Villainess tag were to be changed in description to add a disclaimer of sorts that said "the character in the villain roll does not necessarily have to be female", would that be satisfactory?

Or we could even change it to something like 'V(ill)ai(ness)' tho, to represent the effect it has on sites. _{(kidding, no flame)}

 

[rkkn]

The problem with changing it is that this tag works very well, and any change would either make it absurdly long or make it much less clear what it's supposed to be tagging.

"Villain" is a generic word, commonly used to refer to any evil person of any gender (or any species, for that matter)
"Villainess", however, I have only ever seen used to refer to the antagonist of a fantasy setting high society romance story. Therefore it ties all that up in one clean word.

It's a bit unfortunate that it's a gendered word, but that's how the term evolved. There's no clean way around it. Any attempts at solutions result in something messy, ambiguous, and/or misleading.

 

[hazzack]

...There's no clean way around it. Any attempts at solutions result in something messy, ambiguous, and/or misleading.

you're saying it like putting this tag the way it is isn't misleading at all. i pity the firstimers who expect ladies doing evil thing, only to be greeted with ladies without any kind of evildoing.

 

[BestBoy]

@bigtiddyoneesan I mentioned before that I'd be okay with a change like that.

@rkkn Except the tag doesn't work well for several already stated reasons.

 

[YuriIsTooLewd]

@fugiman
For what it's worth, I'd be fine even with your suggestion of putting male protagonists under the villainess tag, as they perfectly fit what the villainess stories are about (see after the links below). Not to mention that if one knows that the tag is about, finding male MCs wouldn't be much of a surprise. At least if compared to understanding that most villainesses are not villainesses. The problem is that right now that's not the case.

@BestBoy
I think 'villain/ess' would be the best gender neutral, but if they are so much against a renaming, then I think we should first ask to add those male MC manga, and leave the name changing for later, or for when there are more male 'villainess' so that we can make a stronger argument.

I say 'villain/ess' is the best tag because both "Faux Antagonist Lead" and "I've been reborn as the antagonist in a story I read and now I have to avoid all these death flags to reach my happy ending??" have their own problem. For example the following are examples of wonderful stories that fit the tag, but the MCs are real villainess and they didn't read any story: they both turned back in time and decided to embrace their 'villainess' to further their scopes.

[ul][li]https://mangadex.org/title/49644/the-villainess-lives-twice[/li][li]https://mangadex.org/title/45833/the-villainess-reverses-the-hourglass[/li][/ul] All in all, the tag boils down to the MCs perceiving themselves to be perceived as villain{,ess}es, and the MC somehow knowing that they have a bad end in the future because of it. Both those stories fit, like the male ones.

@hazzack
When I first read a manga where they called themselves 'villainess' in the description I had that reaction. Still, the tag just represent how the manga call themselves, it doesn't add any actual problem. Firstimers either understand when they read the descriptions, or eventually they would have had the same problem anyway.

Spoiler

If anyone is searching for a new random tag to throw in the mix, I'd gladly lobby for 'real villain/ess' as it would prevent people from misunderstanding 'villain/ess'. Surely not because I like those stories. I wonder if it would contain enough manga to make it a reality... dunno, but we have 'traditional games' with 57 so the threshold is not that high...

Spoiler

How can manga(Japanese only) have more incest(185) than ninja(61)? The mighty surely have fallen.

 

[Pink95]

nvm

 

[hazzack]

@Pink95 come now, don't be shy. every opinion matters.
speak so everyone can understand opinions from each side of a community.

 

[sterven]

I agree even if I only laugh at what you have to say i'd much rather listen to your opinion than not at all.

 

[KatoShuu]

@Halo
Gyaru - but not Gyaruo

OOooooohhhh, so that's why
"Gyaru-oh" is a tag in that website, i see, i see