Risou no Himo Seikatsu - Vol. 19 Ch. 78 - Their own work

[NotSomeone]

Unless there is outside influence, at most they should only have relitively crude weapons like the bowl style morters/cannons and blunderbuss. Musket style rifles should be rather advanced and a precursor to more modern firearms.

Then we must be reading different manga. Because the central focus of the Twin Kingdoms has always been about the creations of magical tools and weapons. As for magical manufacturing, the current prince is working on that right now in the story. He is even in the Capua palace, researching on how to produce a magical tool that acts like a copy machine. I believe the example given was a device that could endlessly produced fireball wands.

Now iirc, the inspiration for this magical device was another that was able to produce non-magical items by supplying it the raw materials. So I really see no issue in acquiring a couple of magical replicators that would be capable of printing the parts for a few dozen bolt/lever actions rifles.

And as I mentioned in my previous post, the barrels and other parts wouldn't even need to be metal. As long as they could withstand the pressures involved, it would be just as easy to make them from durable wood or bone.

O . o
Because before the MC arrived glass was almost completely unknown to this world? They had yet to reach the level of technology to produce anything more then low quality foggy lumps of glass and sand.

As for why it took so long to reverse engineer, they only had a vod of a glass making competition to work from. Aura was evem pissed because of the ridiculous temperatures needed to properly melt the silica sand. So yeah it's another case of needing to build the tools to build the build the advanced tools to make the things they want.

But lo and behold, once they could produce sufficiently clear glass, they were able to make prefect spheres with few flaws.

Wow... you really didn't bother to read my comment before trying to shit all over it did ya...

I said "At no time was I interested in the why or how they created gunpowder and firearms" and rather then an overview your post came off as a poor attempt to explain your assumptions. Most of which came accrossed as incoherent or just flat wrong.

The prince is trying to create a magic tool that can create magic tools at will. That's different from using magic to turn raw materials into complex objects.
Like I said, if there was such magic that could turn raw material into complex objects, they would just have used that to create glass balls instead of wasting years of research.
It's not about having invented glass. If now they know it exists and that it's made out of silica, why wouldn't they feed silica into the magical "turn this into that" machine? Because it doesn't exist.

And I did bother reading your comment.
I ended my comment giving my overview on the gunpowder situation:

Gunpowder probably wasn't created in the South because people down there can blow each other up with magic if they wanted.
The North is said to be technologically advanced, while the South relies on Magic for most stuff.
Gunpowder could be a recent discovery in the Northern continent, the fact that the Princess's ship doesn't have cannons is indicative. My guess is that the Church in the North is working on things like gunpowder precisely to invade the South without getting ratio'd by magic.

And I used your comment:

Gun powder is dead simple to make from relitively common ingredients.

And it's not like the reaction can't be mimicked in half a dozen ways with magic. So it's something that only becomes relevant if the transmigrator lacks magical ability and needs to fight or if the natives have cooked up gunpowder of their own.

Now that MC has become aware of the issue, he can work to mitigate the excesses of firearms and artillery.

As a base for which to build upon my argument: "Yeah gunpowder is simple to make, it just wasn't made in the South yet because they rely on magic. It could also be that the North just recently discovered it because the Princess' ship has no guns."
That's my previous quote (Gunpowder probably wasn't created...) reduced and digested.
You responded to that saying you had no interest on it, but I didn't make that argument at the behest of your interest, I just added to the conversation because I wanted to.
Now from my understanding, It seems like we're both not native english speakers, so it seems like there's some sort of language barrier thing going on here, because I didn't mean to shit on your comment as much as it seemed to me like you was shitting over mine with the whole "I am not interested" thing.

 

[NotSomeone]

No, he's not a warmonger, and I never said that about him. But you don't need to be a warmonger to take into consideration how your newly adopted homeland is going to protect itself. Also, keep in mind the preceding events that caused that Aura became their Queen in the first place. It was the aftermath of their bloodiest war in history, and Aura was the absolute last of her line from all the others getting unalived in that war.

That said?

In this chapter, we've come across a mercenary on different continent who has the odor of gunpowder lingering around him. This means they have muskets at the very least already. And if they have muskets in the hands of mercenaries, then that means they are not shy about using them!

That, right there all on its own, creates a moral imperative: that no matter how you might feel about warfare, the much greater wrong would be to withhold the knowledge that would give your people an edge. Because for however many lives of soldiers may perish? You can easily multiply that by 10-fold for the number of commoners lives lost should they be conquered.

And that's to say nothing about people taken as slaves.


Yeah, Miserys_End got me there with that one with regards to production and technology. You honestly don't need much. If you already have steel, then you already have sufficient technology to get started.

And yes, rifling is kinda late to the party. But it is the easiest and most simple to implement upgrade to muskets. During the American Civil War they began to implement rifling in muskets, and things went from there.

And I'm not envisioning numbers in the thousands. Hell, if you can make lever-action rifles (even if they're only the single shot breach loaders), then that provides such an edge that a couple of platoons will be all you need. Because in terms of combat? Reloading a musket takes forever.

So that would mean Capua shouldn't need a whole lot. Just a couple of hundred. And that can be easily accomplished in a matter of months with a single workshop of about ten or twenty craftsmen and metal smiths.

I didn't argue you said Zen was a warmonger. What I meant by that is: If you are not war-minded, creating a weapon of mass destruction could bring a heavy toll into your mental health. Gunpowder is the genesis of modern warfare, some authors like John Milton and Cormac McCarthy attribute it's creation (literaly and figuratively) to the Devil.

And having "steel" is one thing, people had steel thousands of years before gunpowder. Having high quality steel is something else interely. Yeah you could use some sort of super fantasy material instead, but wouldn't that be rare? At that point, it's just easier to do what Gribeauval did and streamline the production of casted cannons parts so that you can have mobile interchangable artillery. That and making simple matchlocks would already put you way ahead of anyone in this setting.

And even that's all assuming a mediocre burnout Japanese salaryman would know anything about those kinds of things.

 

[Miserys_End]

The prince is trying to create a magic tool that can create magic tools at will. That's different from using magic to turn raw materials into complex objects.

But most single shot rifles are dead simple to make, with very few moving parts. We are not talking about turret mounted autocannons and ballistic anti-missile systems here. Just a simple breach loaded firearm with a few moving parts and prepackaged ammunition would ruin any military that just developed black powder weaponry.

Like I said, if there was such magic that could turn raw material into complex objects, they would just have used that to create glass balls instead of wasting years of research.
It's not about having invented glass. If now they know it exists and that it's made out of silica, why wouldn't they feed silica into the magical "turn this into that" machine? Because it doesn't exist.

It's rather simple, because they didn't know it was possible? Or to put another way, and to keep the explanation as simple as possible for you, if a person had no idea that an egg was edible, why would you expect them to produce omelets?

The same applies here. The Twin Kingdom has no clue how to create clear glass and has to rely on difficult to obtain crystals and gems. It's too the point they were surprised by the diamonds on Aura's wedding ring. Which to me means they lack a method to filter out the impurities from the materials they have available. Some of Jirou's glass marbles OTOH are just pure clear glass with few if any inclusions.

And I did bother reading your comment.
I ended my comment giving my overview on the gunpowder situation:

And I used your comment:

As a base for which to build upon my argument: "Yeah gunpowder is simple to make, it just wasn't made in the South yet because they rely on magic. It could also be that the North just recently discovered it because the Princess' ship has no guns."
That's my previous quote (Gunpowder probably wasn't created...) reduced and digested.
You responded to that saying you had no interest on it, but I didn't make that argument at the behest of your interest, I just added to the conversation because I wanted to.

O . o; yeah... like i said it was a poor attempt based on faulty assumptions.

There is no relation between the Princess's ship carrying blackpowder cannons and the other nations of the northern continent developing it. It simply means her nation doesnt have access to it. As pointed out above, if a random merc has access to firearms, they should have been developed long before she sailed south. So if Freya failed to convey this information to Jirou or Aura, she either thought they already knew, or the author just failed to think it she should know. Or the merc isn't as simple as he was implied to be.

Now from my understanding, It seems like we're both not native english speakers, so it seems like there's some sort of language barrier thing going on here, because I didn't mean to shit on your comment as much as it seemed to me like you was shitting over mine with the whole "I am not interested" thing.

LMAO! Nah. Despite growing up in an english speaking nation, my mother tongue is and will always be Typo.

 

[Amenohi]

Uhmm Margaret? Isn't Margaret Lucrezia's elder sister? You know the married elder sister? Or am I mixing her up with someone?

Margaret is Aura's personal maid. Kinda like Ines to Zenjirou. Daggers under the skirt and all.

Lucrezia's elder sister is Princess Margarita. Haven't seen her with her hair down, yet.

 

[NotSomeone]

But most single shot rifles are dead simple to make, with very few moving parts. We are not talking about turret mounted autocannons and ballistic anti-missile systems here. Just a simple breach loaded firearm with a few moving parts and prepackaged ammunition would ruin any military that just developed black powder weaponry.

We were talking about rifling and lever actions, not about single-shot rifles.

The same applies here. The Twin Kingdom has no clue how to create clear glass and has to rely on difficult to obtain crystals and gems. It's too the point they were surprised by the diamonds on Aura's wedding ring. Which to me means they lack a method to filter out the impurities from the materials they have available. Some of Jirou's glass marbles OTOH are just pure clear glass with few if any inclusions.

You didn't understand. Zenjirou showed Capua how to make glass beads, why would Capua employ a workshop dedicated to trying to make this thing instead of using the magic tool? I repeat, this point has nothing to do with discovering glass.

O . o; yeah... like i said it was a poor attempt based on faulty assumptions.

There is no relation between the Princess's ship carrying blackpowder cannons and the other nations of the northern continent developing it. It simply means her nation doesnt have access to it. As pointed out above, if a random merc has access to firearms, they should have been developed long before she sailed south. So if Freya failed to convey this information to Jirou or Aura, she either thought they already knew, or the author just failed to think it she should know. Or the merc isn't as simple as he was implied to be.

LMAO! Nah. Despite growing up in an english speaking nation, my mother tongue is and will always be Typo.

The Green Leaf is a well-known vessel in the North; it's the Ship a Princess uses to go around. And it was employed to travel across an ocean full of monsters.
If cannons and gunpowder were just a thing up North, why wouldn't a vessel such as the Green Leaf have them?

1. It could be because people have been using it primarily for fireworks or something similar, like the Chinese did early on.
   But if they had gunpowder for a long time, they would have figured out how to use it as a weapon, and then the Green Leaf would probably have it.
2. It could be because some places have been developing it in secret. If that's the case, then it's new enough that it still hasn't seen action in actual warfare.

Gunpowder is easy to make. Once China started using it, it quickly spread to Korea, India, Africa, and eventually Europe. There's no reason for us to believe the nation capable of creating the Green Leaf had no access to gunpowder. Only if we're early enough in its creation that people are starting to figure out how to use it as an effective weapon, OR if we are early enough in its creation that the nation the Mercenary currently serves is the only place with access to it.

 

[Miserys_End]

We were talking about rifling and lever actions, not about single-shot rifles.

You do realize that a pump action shotgun or a lever action rifle is a single shot firearm, right? Just because it has a magazine doesn't make it semi-automatic. For that to happen, there needs to be a mechanism that loads the next shell/bullet and makes the weapon ready to fire the next bullet in between each pull of the trigger....

You didn't understand. Zenjirou showed Capua how to make glass beads, why would Capua employ a workshop dedicated to trying to make this thing instead of using the magic tool? I repeat, this point has nothing to do with discovering glass.

Honestly, You clearly seem to have a fundamental disconnect between the events in the story and your understanding of them. You also have a truely poor grasp of how things work.

Aura and Jirou started the process of making glass soon after he arrived in this world. Around the same time he started half a dozen other civil infrastructure projects. As for why they designed and built a glass foundry instead of just commissioning a magic tool is two fold.

First is because the only people who could make the magical tool is the people who they would be selling the end product to. Which means the Twin Kingdom could just make one for themselves.

Second and just as relevant, Capua didn't know a magical cloning tool even existed. Kind of hard to commission something you didn't know exists... much like how the Twin Kingdoms didn't know Glass marbles exist, nor what they were made from.

The Green Leaf is a well-known vessel in the North; it's the Ship a Princess uses to go around. And it was employed to travel across an ocean full of monsters.
If cannons and gunpowder were just a thing up North, why wouldn't a vessel such as the Green Leaf have them?

Rather stupidly simple really. Because the church would refuse to sell their weapons to outsiders they planned to conquer?

They also spent multiple chapters explaining how the Green Leaf survived the trip. Hells, Skadi even introduces herself by kicking a Spear thrue the head of a sea dragon.

Gunpowder is easy to make. Once China started using it, it quickly spread to Korea, India, Africa, and eventually Europe. There's no reason for us to believe the nation capable of creating the Green Leaf had no access to gunpowder. Only if we're early enough in its creation that people are starting to figure out how to use it as an effective weapon, OR if we are early enough in its creation that the nation the Mercenary currently serves is the only place with access to it.

Again, you show how utterly flawed your understanding of how nations interact. The scale of time you just described is on the order of centuries. So even in its basic form, it has yet to spread accrossed the northern continent.

Freya's ship doesn't have access to gunpowder because the Church only developed it in the last decade and its creators intend to use it conquer the world. So why would they fucking sell their future enemies weapons that would allow them to fight back or defend themselves?

 

[AnonymousContributor]

Hopefully we can try to see some cannons fielded before the Church arrives since it's almost guaranteed that the Church will have guns that fire on their own, probably rifled once they finish preparing. Best case scenario the guns are like the real world early medieval ones which were insanely primitive.

 

[Amenohi]

Just noticed, I think this is the first time we see Zenjirou's complete retinue in this voyage. Three guards (including his personal guard), two combat capable maids and one normal? maid. Doesn't look like Aura skipped on security by much.

 

[IdidNineEleven]

I've decided to start The More You Know comment page to explain some of author-san's writing choices that has to do with established lore that we forgot over the year (Seriously, C29 was released 5 years ago). Hope you guys enjoy it. Agsilver has also updated the town / region names based on feedback in C77's comments, praise to be Ag!

EDIT: This is C78, I mistakenly typed it as 79. Sorry for the trouble folks

None of the aftercredits page applies to Lucrezia & Zenjirou's relationship, though. We WILL get a Lucrezia-Zenjirou flashback (with blushing) DOUBTLESS and DESPITE your writeup!

You do realize that a pump action shotgun or a lever action rifle is a single shot firearm, right?

Why enclose the statement that a repeater is a single-shot firearm with "You do realize" and ", right?" Where does the social pull to do this come from? It reposes the statement as a question of the other character's ability to "realize." Why? Is it to deflect from the responsibility of flatly stating that a "[repeater] is a single-shot firearm" by univeralising it as truth; by making it to seem as if the statement comes from a third authority? Is it just to insult the other character? Why care so much about the comment section of one the manga that I (at least twice) jerked my cock and busted a phat loogy to? Is your critique useful to others in any way? Is the particular content of fantasy gunpowder production worth more as art than the mangaka's ability to create a dynamic and living class-based society DESPITE being isekai and having to compete with more isekai-y isekai yet on the same market? One notable thing was that Freya (I want to lick her thighs) refered to herself as a "citizen" (a class codified in law in medieval states) of Uppsala. And yet she is royalty! What did the mangaka mean by this? Was it the translator? We've seen alot of food throughout the publication of this manga, but we've never actually seen where it's from. Obviously it's from rural hamlets, villages, or whatever, and a portion of each harvest is then taxed by the local lord, right? Since everyone is a "citizen," or at least the mangaka has no idea what they're writing, then each peasant, freeholder, whatever, can freely own or rent property in any "city," right? Then they must be paid pretty damn well to remain in the countryside beside real (real) dinosaurs!

 

[Miserys_End]

Why enclose the statement that a repeater is a single-shot firearm with "You do realize" and ", right?" Where does the social pull to do this come from? It reposes the statement as a question of the other character's ability to "realize." Why? Is it to deflect from the responsibility of flatly stating that a "[repeater] is a single-shot firearm" by univeralising it as truth; by making it to seem as if the statement comes from a third authority?

After saying the same thing differently over the course of multiple posts, I tried using simple sentences with as much condensation confirmation as possible. And while I don't consider myself a gunnut, I do know a fair ammount about firearms.

Is it just to insult the other character?

Yupper.

Why care so much about the comment section of one the manga that I (at least twice) jerked my cock and busted a phat loogy to? Is your critique useful to others in any way? Is the particular content of fantasy gunpowder production worth more as art than the mangaka's ability to create a dynamic and living class-based society DESPITE being isekai and having to compete with more isekai-y isekai yet on the same market?

Because it is the nature of the interwebs? Where everyone is an asshole and tends to shit all over that which offends our delicate sensibilities. Case in point the near entirety of your response.

One notable thing was that Freya (I want to lick her thighs) refered to herself as a "citizen" (a class codified in law in medieval states) of Uppsala. And yet she is royalty! What did the mangaka mean by this? Was it the translator?

Think it was a distinction she made for her part as Captain of a ship. Which was mostly to pander to the superstitions of her crew.

We've seen alot of food throughout the publication of this manga, but we've never actually seen where it's from. Obviously it's from rural hamlets, villages, or whatever, and a portion of each harvest is then taxed by the local lord, right?

Not necessarily, it's never expressly stated, but one would assume they would purchase ingredients normally thrue a royal purveyor. Basically a court approved merchant that works for the palace to purchase ingredients and supplies.

Since everyone is a "citizen," or at least the mangaka has no idea what they're writing, then each peasant, freeholder, whatever, can freely own or rent property in any "city," right? Then they must be paid pretty damn well to remain in the countryside beside real (real) dinosaurs!

No clue as it's not really covered in the setting. We can only really assume that since there are commoners rather than a peasantry, that most individuals are responsible in some way for paying their own taxes and has some mesure of freedom of choice.

Granted that's in no way a given, as the author/mangaka hasn't deemed such information important to the story, but that's my best WAG for you to shit on at your convenience.