Sousou no Frieren - Vol. 4 Ch. 32 - Orden Family
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
@TheOneWhoPlays
Even the Duden (the most widespread German dictionary) agrees:
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Weg
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Weck_Broetchen_Backwerk
Scroll down to the speaker symbol and click it to hear the correct pronunciation. If those two really sound the same to you, you should probably get your ears checked out.
Dude, I'm German, have lived in several states and spent time in almost all of them. I've never heard anybody pronounce words like that.
Even the Duden (the most widespread German dictionary) agrees:
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Weg
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Weck_Broetchen_Backwerk
Scroll down to the speaker symbol and click it to hear the correct pronunciation. If those two really sound the same to you, you should probably get your ears checked out.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2018
- Messages
- 927
>Stark and Fern moments
>the Christmas illust has Himmel kissing Frieren
uchi no kokoro
uchi no tamashi
>the Christmas illust has Himmel kissing Frieren
uchi no kokoro
uchi no tamashi
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2019
- Messages
- 7
@Ulfhednar
No, @TheOneWhoPlays is right.
Weg as in "Geh weg" (Go away) is pronounced [vɛk]. Weck, another word for Brötchen, is pronunced [vɛk] as well.
You didn't read their comment correctly and misread weg (away) as der Weg (path, road), which is pronounced [veːk].
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/weg_fort_abwesend_entfernt
No, @TheOneWhoPlays is right.
Weg as in "Geh weg" (Go away) is pronounced [vɛk]. Weck, another word for Brötchen, is pronunced [vɛk] as well.
You didn't read their comment correctly and misread weg (away) as der Weg (path, road), which is pronounced [veːk].
https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/weg_fort_abwesend_entfernt
@alfirizkyr
What christmas illustration?
What christmas illustration?
@KleinerGruenerKaktus
Since there's not much sense in constantly repeating the same thing, here's the link to Wikipedia:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auslautverhärtung
It claims exactly what I've been saying the whole time - devoicing is a thing in the northern dialects, but not in any of the standardized varieties.
As for the phonetics, I can't find even a single German dictionary written in Germany that has phonetics for anything but loan words, so I've no clue where you took them from. And the link you posted (which is the one thing you got right - no clue why I ended up posting the link to Weg instead of weg) also has the pronunciation with a soft "g".
Since there's not much sense in constantly repeating the same thing, here's the link to Wikipedia:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auslautverhärtung
It claims exactly what I've been saying the whole time - devoicing is a thing in the northern dialects, but not in any of the standardized varieties.
As for the phonetics, I can't find even a single German dictionary written in Germany that has phonetics for anything but loan words, so I've no clue where you took them from. And the link you posted (which is the one thing you got right - no clue why I ended up posting the link to Weg instead of weg) also has the pronunciation with a soft "g".
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2020
- Messages
- 5
@Ulfhednar i was talking about the word weg not Weg, but that's beside the point. I concede that it might not be the case in all german dialects, but it's definitely a thing in at least some franconian dialects (source: have been speaking moselle franconian for 26 years now)
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2020
- Messages
- 294
It's so wholesome.Most of the time.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2018
- Messages
- 10,114
Mama Frieren was only there for the grimoire. And the cakes.
She left earning money to the young ones, haha.
She left earning money to the young ones, haha.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2019
- Messages
- 7
@Ulfhednar
So you decided link to a wiki article referring to a part that's been heavily discussed and you've missed the "standarddeutsche" Part.
The phonetics Duden is using on their website is kind of strange. It doesn't match how you'd usually transcribe German - or any other language. Maybe they changed it a bit to make it easier for the average person to understand. I think I've found the solution. The thing they list on this page isn't the Aussprache in IPA, but the Betonung which is also listed under Ausspache. Check any word with an Umlaut and you'll see that they don't have any phonetics there. However, you click the sound button for weg you'll hear a /k/ sound at the end.
I got my examples and information from Duden – Das Aussprachewörterbuch, ISBN: 978-3-411-04067-4, 7., komplett überarbeitete und aktualisierte Auflage https://imgur.com/a/2xOXeYI
It's got a large introductory part explaining about German phonetics. Definitely worth a look and better than some article on wikipedia.
So you decided link to a wiki article referring to a part that's been heavily discussed and you've missed the "standarddeutsche" Part.
The far southerners (Austria, parts of Bavaria, Switzerland and Südtirol) are the weird ones and outliers and not the other way around as you're claiming here:
So when we're talking about German (not Austrian/Swiss/etc.) standard German that's spoken by the majority of Germany (if they feel like speaking standard German) where final devoicing absolutely is a thing, we'll ignore the southerners.
T
I got my examples and information from Duden – Das Aussprachewörterbuch, ISBN: 978-3-411-04067-4, 7., komplett überarbeitete und aktualisierte Auflage https://imgur.com/a/2xOXeYI
It's got a large introductory part explaining about German phonetics. Definitely worth a look and better than some article on wikipedia.
@KleinerGruenerKaktus
Just accept it, only the northerners would pronounce "weg" like "Weck".
What Ulfhednar quoted from wiki is correct, there is no such thing as you claim in Vienna, Salzburg, Innsbruck, or Munich.
Never been to the savage northern lands but your weird local versions of our beautiful language are probably really as distorted there as you claim, but that's not Standardhochdeutsch.
Just accept it, only the northerners would pronounce "weg" like "Weck".
What Ulfhednar quoted from wiki is correct, there is no such thing as you claim in Vienna, Salzburg, Innsbruck, or Munich.
Never been to the savage northern lands but your weird local versions of our beautiful language are probably really as distorted there as you claim, but that's not Standardhochdeutsch.
@TheOneWhoPlays
Seems you misunderstood me. I was speaking about standard German, and only mentioned the northern dialects as an example for dialects that do devoice. Though I've yet to hear any other dialect do that.
@KleinerGruenerKaktus
In fact, many of the central German dialects do the exact opposite, with pronouncing k as g for example. And as you'd expect, some people will do the same in standard German - yet nobody would claim that "Wecker", for example should be pronounced "Wegger".
Anyways, I guess I was wrong about the Duden being a reliable authority for German - even just searching for what the Aussprachewörterbuch says on Auslautverhärtung, the first result was duden.de claiming a final "ig" should always be pronounced as "ich". Not only would this conflict with the claim that German always devoices final g to k, it's also obviously wrong. Nobody would think Honig was pronounced Honich, for example.
...Want to bet somebody here will claim that all Germans do pronounce it like that, and just don't notice it?
https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/sprachratgeber/Zweifelsfalle-bei-der-Aussprache
If even Duden gives conflicting information, I guess it's impossible to find any proven answer.
Seems you misunderstood me. I was speaking about standard German, and only mentioned the northern dialects as an example for dialects that do devoice. Though I've yet to hear any other dialect do that.
@KleinerGruenerKaktus
Not the case. You might want to re-read that sentence - it's about northern Germans pronouncing standard German words (with standardized spelling, I assume) different from everybody else. To put it simpler, it's about northerners not being able to speak properly.
Does your idea of "far south" start at Köln? Because even up there, I've never heard people use final devoicing in regular (standard-German) conversation. Only in the far north (near the coast) and north east (Brandenburg, Berlin).
In fact, many of the central German dialects do the exact opposite, with pronouncing k as g for example. And as you'd expect, some people will do the same in standard German - yet nobody would claim that "Wecker", for example should be pronounced "Wegger".
Funnily enough, it sounds like a g to me, and completely different from a k or ck. That's what I was referring to before. Perhaps it's a difference in hearing, like Japanese not being able to tell R from L (since they only use a sound that's in-between).
Anyways, I guess I was wrong about the Duden being a reliable authority for German - even just searching for what the Aussprachewörterbuch says on Auslautverhärtung, the first result was duden.de claiming a final "ig" should always be pronounced as "ich". Not only would this conflict with the claim that German always devoices final g to k, it's also obviously wrong. Nobody would think Honig was pronounced Honich, for example.
...Want to bet somebody here will claim that all Germans do pronounce it like that, and just don't notice it?
https://www.duden.de/sprachwissen/sprachratgeber/Zweifelsfalle-bei-der-Aussprache
If even Duden gives conflicting information, I guess it's impossible to find any proven answer.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2019
- Messages
- 7
@Ulfhednar
I'm just guessing here, but to me it seems you never had anything to do with this stuff.
You're mixing up different phenomena that don't have anything to do with final devoicing, you still get spelling and pronunciation mixed up, you don't quite understand what you're reading, and you think you know better than linguists who are experts at phonetics/phonology.
They aren't making stuff up. You can measure and record which sounds someone produces when they are speaking. For example one way to test whether a sound is pronounced voiced or unvoiced is to put your hand against your voice box. It'll vibrate noticeably when a sound is voiced. So checking whether a speaker uses final devoicing is super easy. Please have a look at the physical process of speaking and how different body parts work together to produce sounds.
The -ig thing is not contradictory at all, as the cluster -ig is it's own special thing. The pronunciation [ˈhoːnɪç] for Honig can and has been just as easily proven by observing what a speaker's body does when they say that word. And it's not a rare or special.
You don't have to rely only on your ears. Which brings us to you, because you are relying only on your ears although you don't even know what you have to look for. And from your faulty observations you conclude that the linguists must be wrong and nobody really knows. How conceited can one be?
I'm just guessing here, but to me it seems you never had anything to do with this stuff.
You're mixing up different phenomena that don't have anything to do with final devoicing, you still get spelling and pronunciation mixed up, you don't quite understand what you're reading, and you think you know better than linguists who are experts at phonetics/phonology.
They aren't making stuff up. You can measure and record which sounds someone produces when they are speaking. For example one way to test whether a sound is pronounced voiced or unvoiced is to put your hand against your voice box. It'll vibrate noticeably when a sound is voiced. So checking whether a speaker uses final devoicing is super easy. Please have a look at the physical process of speaking and how different body parts work together to produce sounds.
The -ig thing is not contradictory at all, as the cluster -ig is it's own special thing. The pronunciation [ˈhoːnɪç] for Honig can and has been just as easily proven by observing what a speaker's body does when they say that word. And it's not a rare or special.
You don't have to rely only on your ears. Which brings us to you, because you are relying only on your ears although you don't even know what you have to look for. And from your faulty observations you conclude that the linguists must be wrong and nobody really knows. How conceited can one be?
