Taida na Akujoku Kizoku ni Tensei shita Ore, Scenario wo Bukkowashitara Kikakugai no Maryoku de Saikyou ni Natta - Ch. 20.1 - Daughter of the Elias F…

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The trick, ideally, would be to ensure that those at "the bottom" are still able to not only live, but flourish with dignity. The 'stable boy' wouldn't want for a warm, dry bed and always having food on their table, and help when they're hurt or sick.

That's what I take from Allen's vision, at least. Not that everyone is rich and a king and tied for 1st place, but that those at the bottom of society still live fulfilling lives and are free of oppression and discrimination, and those at the top be morally upright and don't seek to control and oppress those beneath them.

Which....is possible, but at-scale is arguably very difficult to enforce at a sufficiently large society, without a lot of governmental-type levers to discourage runaway greed or malice while balancing against personal liberty and the common good.
And of course, setting something like that up takes a lot of work and time and buy-in from everyone involved, and I do not know if Allen has properly reckoned with that fact.
Allens dream is impossible. Humanity is a naturally greedy species that can never feel content. Its simultaneously our greatest strength and weakness. Strength in that our never ending want for more is what has driven us to seek out new things and innovate. Yet weakness that we can never be satisfied and thus will always seek more, no matter the damage and cost.

To fundamentally alter that is not possible and if it was. The world would stagnate and fall into collapse.
 
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The trick, ideally, would be to ensure that those at "the bottom" are still able to not only live, but flourish with dignity. The 'stable boy' wouldn't want for a warm, dry bed and always having food on their table, and help when they're hurt or sick.

That's what I take from Allen's vision, at least. Not that everyone is rich and a king and tied for 1st place, but that those at the bottom of society still live fulfilling lives and are free of oppression and discrimination, and those at the top be morally upright and don't seek to control and oppress those beneath them.

Which....is possible, but at-scale is arguably very difficult to enforce at a sufficiently large society, without a lot of governmental-type levers to discourage runaway greed or malice while balancing against personal liberty and the common good.
And of course, setting something like that up takes a lot of work and time and buy-in from everyone involved, and I do not know if Allen has properly reckoned with that fact.
Say you limit wealth and enforce justice, well the new standard of power is to being the one with the power to limit wealth and enforce justice, so people who seek to control others will aim for that position since it gives them power. People are going to exploit each other, and they do so with beautiful dreams just as much as with tyranny, tyranny can even be preferable in that it's obvious and people won't fight for their own enslavement.
 
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Justice for poor duke he has a name too that I definitely didn’t have to read here to remember it.
 
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I swear if Allen and wiess teams up it's going to be like making a nuclear bomb but it's facing to whoever poor soul that is fighting them
 
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I dunno how you jumped to "wishing she would die" when nobody mentioned that, but it's definitely the case that she's currently a hypocrite.

Obviously those of us that actually care about good writing want this to be a point of character development for her, but it is definitely the case that the way she is currently being depicted is quite negative. And that's a good thing, it means she's got plenty of room to improve which is good for a story. I feel like you're acting as though people are slinging insults at a real person, lol.
The comment two slots before mine literally ends with "pls tell me she dies".
 
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Went back to previous chaps and hadn't realized that Shirley used to be called Sheryl in the TLs. Probably part of why I got confused about who was who between the girls.
 
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Bruh, Allen got his ass beat because he wouldn't give up. It was actually explained in the next chapter after the mangaka portrayed Weiss as beating him unnecessarily to us. This difference is though that you were there, did you forget what you watched?
 
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Allens dream is impossible. Humanity is a naturally greedy species that can never feel content. Its simultaneously our greatest strength and weakness. Strength in that our never ending want for more is what has driven us to seek out new things and innovate. Yet weakness that we can never be satisfied and thus will always seek more, no matter the damage and cost.

To fundamentally alter that is not possible and if it was. The world would stagnate and fall into collapse.
nah in real world the mass seems pretty content with consooming, doomscrolling and having Netflix and similar things for most of history. if everyone is constantly seeking out more, wealth would be more evenly distributed, but the trend shows the wealth gap is widening. human nature seems to have been tamed well. only a few, like 1% have the will to seek power.

Yup, Allen is the definition of "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

This naive fool doesnt get that you cant make the world equal. Humanity, hell nature itself is hierarchal. There will always be winners and lose, those who can and cannot. Even if there was somehow a way that everyone had the same potential, even then everyone couldnt be equal because think for a second what everyone would want to be. A king or something else of fame and power, no one is dreaming of being the stable boy. And theres only so much room at the top, so then what? What do you do then when those of capable means are denied a position in life that fits their capability and are forced to wallow in something unsuited to their skills. What do you think they will feel. Very bad and dangerous resentment.

Allen is the most dangerous kind of person.

bad or good intention can potential lead to hell anyway, it is with people with unchecked power doing whatever they like. even with a hierarchy it won't lead to stability, there is no permanent hierarchy. there is nothing perfect, there is nothing that works. if you view Allen's intention also as the desire to redistribute wealth and power, then it makes more sense.

Allen's intention couldn't be more dangerous than any other who seek more power for themselves. couldn't do more harm than any other power struggle.
 
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nah in real world the mass seems pretty content with consooming, doomscrolling and having Netflix and similar things for most of history. if everyone is constantly seeking out more, wealth would be more evenly distributed, but the trend shows the wealth gap is widening. human nature seems to have been tamed well. only a few, like 1% have the will to seek power.
Thats always been the case. The few are and have always been the ones that innovate and change things. Everyone is always seeking out more, its that the masses are too weak and incapable of achieving more. Yet when they miraculously do as shown by say winning lottery. They dont do the smart thing and properly invest that money. They do the stupid thing and buy shit they dont need like stupid luxury items and go broke again very soon.
bad or good intention can potential lead to hell anyway, it is with people with unchecked power doing whatever they like. even with a hierarchy it won't lead to stability, there is no permanent hierarchy. there is nothing perfect, there is nothing that works. if you view Allen's intention also as the desire to redistribute wealth and power, then it makes more sense.

Allen's intention couldn't be more dangerous than any other who seek more power for themselves. couldn't do more harm than any other power struggle.
I never said it would create perfect stability. Nor that a hierarchy never changes. Its always in flux and thats a good thing. New blood is needed from time to time. In a world there where everyone is equal though, that would lead to endless fighting as equal forces fighting each other can only end in a stalemate or wiping each other out.

Allens intentions sound nice on paper but go against fundamental nature itself. Its a disaster.
 
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I never said it would create perfect stability. Nor that a hierarchy never changes. Its always in flux and thats a good thing. New blood is needed from time to time. In a world there where everyone is equal though, that would lead to endless fighting as equal forces fighting each other can only end in a stalemate or wiping each other out.
on larger scale the world has been in endless fighting already even without everyone being equal. even of not being equal on individual level, equal power blocs have always been forming. history is endless war, we are just currently in a large stalemate, and we might be annihilated in a nuclear war soon.

an absolute monopoly of power would also equally lead to stagnation.

couldn't be any different from the case where each individual being equal.

Allens intentions sound nice on paper but go against fundamental nature itself. Its a disaster.
bit of a stretch to call it against nature. on different levels larger than individual, it always tends towards balance of power though, I could see the desire for it even ay individual level.

though I read Allen's intention as a classic struggle to do a wealth and power redistribution when the imbalance is too great rather than making everyone absolutely equal.
 
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on larger scale the world has been in endless fighting already even without everyone being equal. even of not being equal on individual level, equal power blocs have always been forming. history is endless war, we are just currently in a large stalemate, and we might be annihilated in a nuclear war soon.

an absolute monopoly of power would also equally lead to stagnation.

couldn't be any different from the case where each individual being equal.
History is not endless war and you know that. There have been many eras of peace and prosperity. I never said there should be an absolute monopoly on power. Power will naturally spread itself out, but not to the degree that Allen envisions. His degree will never happen as equality is a lie.
bit of a stretch to call it against nature. on different levels larger than individual, it always tends towards balance of power though, I could see the desire for it even ay individual level.

though I read Allen's intention as a classic struggle to do a wealth and power redistribution when the imbalance is too great rather than making everyone absolutely equal.
No, it is not a stretch as nature is not fair and balanced. If that was the case, there'd be no apex predator. There will always be those who reign at the top of the food chain as they are the best and strongest.

Such things must be allowed to resolve themselves. The hard time must be allowed. When you try to stop the cycle, all you do is make things worse once reality demands its dues. Funny thing, Allens just proving that might makes right as he would have to force it upon people. His lofty ideals would never happen naturally.
 
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History is not endless war and you know that. There have been many eras of peace and prosperity. I never said there should be an absolute monopoly on power. Power will naturally spread itself out, but not to the degree that Allen envisions. His degree will never happen as equality is a lie.
it is debatable whether peace is just a preparation for war, like in the last 3500 years we got 268 years with no major conflicts. and even the current peace is fragile, still, it hasn't become a full on world war yet because of the balance in nuclear power between major blocs.
No, it is not a stretch as nature is not fair and balanced. If that was the case, there'd be no apex predator. There will always be those who reign at the top of the food chain as they are the best and strongest.
Nature balances itself though, even on the individual level (1 predator vs 1 prey) it might not look balanced. on population level the apex predators could hunt too much and risked extinction themselves as nothing else to hunt. so nature is kept in relative balance rather than one side wiping out the other, keeping population in relative balance.

in history equal power blocs have always been forming and seeking toward balance, e.g. nations expanding too much disrupting power balance and is countered by a coalition. in recent years such blocs form. and currently, the bottom classes as a whole in modern society (despite declined in recent years) still has more relative power compared to slaves/serfs.

on larger scale nature gravitates towards balance.
Such things must be allowed to resolve themselves. The hard time must be allowed. When you try to stop the cycle, all you do is make things worse once reality demands its dues.
I consider Allen to be part of the natural cycle here. he sees the power imbalance being great, the upper classes grow way more too powerful and oppress the lower classes too much, it makes sense people like Allen rising up to challenge it.
Allens just proving that might makes right
I don't think he has ever stated otherwise. he seems to be aware that the only way to not be oppressed is by having your own power. and seek power to do it.
His lofty ideals would never happen naturally.
don't know what you mean by "naturally", but in human society, everything happened by human will.

from what I read, "equal society" here just means the bottom class as a bloc having enough power to avoid being oppressed. doesn't mean wiping out all hierarchy and making everyone absolutely the same.
 
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it is debatable whether peace is just a preparation for war, like in the last 3500 years we got 268 years with no major conflicts. and even the current peace is fragile.

Nature balances itself though, even on the individual level (1 predator vs 1 prey) it might not look balanced. on population level the apex predators could hunt too much and risked extinction themselves as nothing else to hunt. so nature is kept in relative balance rather than one side wiping out the other, keeping population in relative balance.

in history equal power blocs have always been forming and seeking toward balance, e.g. nations expanding too much disrupting power balance and is countered by a coalition. in recent years such blocs form. and currently, the bottom classes as a whole in modern society (despite declined in recent years) still has more relative power compared to slaves/serfs.

on larger scale nature gravitates towards balance.

I consider Allen to be part of the natural cycle here. he sees the power imbalance being great, the upper classes grow way more too powerful and oppress the lower classes too much, it makes sense people like Allen rising up to challenge it.

I don't think he has ever stated otherwise. he seems to be aware that the only way to not be oppressed is by having your own power. and seek power to do it.

don't know what you mean by "naturally", but everything happened by human will,.

from what I read, "equal society" here just means the bottom class as a bloc having enough power to avoid being oppressed. doesn't mean wiping out all hierarchy and making everyone absolutely the same.
Allen is not trying to restore balance or level the playing field. He has stated that he seeks to make everyone equal. That somehow, he is going to get rid of hierarchy. No more Nobles, no more commoners, no more slaves. That is wiping out Hierarchy.

That is not natural as we are a hierarchical species. His way is stupid and naive because that is not who we are as a species. If it was natural, we would have done this ourselves already. No Allen required to force everyone to be one class. We arent some hivemind.
 
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Wow, leave it to the Bourgeois "revolutionary" to be worse than the actual peasant leader
 
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So many people in these comments just calling Shirley a hypocrite and wishing she would die instead of seeing that's she's wrong about things and then growing as a person.

It's no wonder nobody ever achieves anything anymore.
Rom-com manga comment sections can get very unhinged sometimes.
 

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