Usotsuki Satsuki wa Shi ga Mieru - Vol. 9 Ch. 81 - Resignation

[TooOldForThis]

I don't understand. There's no evidence Komaki is actually, truly responsible for any deaths (other than when she tried to help Seo and failed), right?

She just feels responsible and/or sees the pattern of "people die when I'm around a lot" and thinks that there is a connection?

From her perspective as a kid, she said that the black follows her around and will get on anyone that it touches while it's on its way towards her. The scanlator's translation was a bit clumsy (not much space in the bubbles), so here's Komako's explanation from Ch.79 (the raw chapter's available for free from the manga page's link)

真っ黒は、いつも色んな所にあって。さわれないし取れないけど、こまこの方にゆっくり流れてくる。流れてくる途中にいる人にくっついたりもする。黒いのが付きやすい人とあんまり付かない人がいるけど、だんだん黒いのがたまって真っ黒になると死んじゃうの。

My translation of that:
The pitch black, it's always in various places. You can't touch it, you can't grab it, but it's continuously flowing slowly towards me. It also clings on to people who are on the way, while flowing towards me. There are people who the black easily sticks to and there are people who the black doesn't really stick to, but when the black gradually accumulates to be pitch black, they die.
(emphasis in bold mine)

 

[CielarcR]

I mean they could be best friends? Komachi can see who's about to die and Satsuki can see the premonitory corpse to identify how someone's gonna die.

 

[deathpigeon]

I mean they could be best friends?

Best 'friends'. 😏

 

[Shinkutsuki]

Thanks for the chapter

 

[TooOldForThis]

This is something that she's struggled with and caused her problems her whole life and she's shown to genuinely care about others regardless of her emotional issues.

Don't forget, Komachi can be an unreliable narrator. The final panel of the chapter, and the final panel before the flashback begins seems to suggest Satsuki also thinks the whole flashback/backstory is a lie. The Japanese text is a bit clearer in saying that she considers the story a lie. (whether it really is or isn't though... dun dun dun! suspense!)

 

[StormSen]

Her capability or lack of capability to be affected by other people's losses (and, indeed, her potentially being a sociopath) don't make her a bad person. This is something that she's struggled with and caused her problems her whole life and she's shown to genuinely care about others regardless of her emotional issues.

It's her knowing that her being around other people kills them -- and doing it anyway that makes her a bad person. She is in fact a mass murderer. Mass murdering is bad. Doing it means that you're a bad person. Why do I have explain this??

She doesn't care about other people. Her presence kills people. She knows it. It doesn't bother her. She has to fake mourning. Did you just ignore those bits?

And because the author is a moral retard, he presents it as some sort of unsolvable dilemma. When in fact all she has to do is avoid prolonged close contact with people.

 

[StormSen]

Some of the most horrible people to exist in history had pretty legit reasons for how they turned out as vile monsters.

A sad past does not mean a person is justified in doing evil acts.

Yeah, and calling someone a vile monster because they struggle to feel things about others is you being awful, not her. There is nothing in the manga so far that makes her a vile monster.

All that we've been shown is that she might be a sociopath and she might have a condition that causes death to follow her which she doesn't have any control over and she wants to kill herself over. Those things don't make her a vile monster.

Mangamoz did not use the term "vile monster" -- you're putting words into their mouth. [Edit: Doh! Reading fail on my part.] Also the obvious understanding is that they're "horrible" because they did horrible things (massacres, torture, etc.). If you want to argue against Mangamoz, then argue against what they said, not your strawman.

And we don't have to tolerate or empathize with sociopaths because they're "different". The main, and completely rational, fear about sociopaths is that they lack the innate brakes on malevolent behavior that normal people have. Regardless of laws etc, the primary brake on malevolent behavior is empathy for the persons affected by actions. Sociopaths lack that, making them dangerous in a way most people aren't.

But, yes it's quite possible for sociopaths to not engage in malevolent behavior. And there can be some societal benefits from sociopaths. (There are times and professions where it's better to not have too much empathy.)

Again, morally the issue here is that Komachi is killing people, knows that she is killing people, could easily do things to not kill people -- yet doesn't do so. And again, if she doesn't care about anyone else, why would I care about her? I have no empathy for her.

BTW, fairly similar case to Komachi: Typhoid Mary.

 

[cranscape]

From her perspective, the darkness around others seems to be emanating from her. She doesn't see it as her seeing their potential for death. She sees it as her exuding something only she can see that is causing their deaths.

Outside of her mom her situation hasn't had any outside perspective applied to it. And her POV as a kid (she is still a kid) trying to understand what's actually happening is unreliable. Now that she's broken the rules and told someone else there's a chance to find out what's actually going on or stop it or at least examine it.

 

[popo53414]

bye

 

[cranscape]

Again, morally the issue here is that Komachi is killing people, knows that she is killing people, could easily do things to not kill people -- yet doesn't do so. And again, if she doesn't care about anyone else, why would I care about her? I have no empathy for her.

BTW, fairly similar case to Komachi: Typhoid Mary.

I'm not sure what she's supposed to do while still a kid? She already lives alone now that she's at more of a reasonable age for it. I guess she could go live alone in the rural mountains to avoid the possibility of being around people if that is causing death, but that isn't something she's old enough to try yet.

She's following her mom's last request to blend in and live after her mom stopped her first suicide attempt. She's still a kid. What is her "easy" solution as a kid outside of suicide against her mom's wishes? If she was like a 40 year old cook spreading disease then yeah, off to the mountains, but yall have a high bar for a teenager I guess. Kill yourself or no empathy for you.

 

[deathpigeon]

It's her knowing that her being around other people kills them -- and doing it anyway that makes her a bad person.

What do you expect her to do about it? She's haunted by a curse. She can't, like, wear a mask or wash her hands and make things ok. It doesn't even seem like she could really isolate because any proximity seems to do it. Do you think she should simply kill herself because of her mere existence? Or try in vain to convince people that she knows vaguely they're going to die, but not how or why? Do you understand that neither of those are, like, workable solutions?

 

[StormSen]

What do you expect her to do about it? She's haunted by a curse. She can't, like, wear a mask or wash her hands and make things ok. It doesn't even seem like she could really isolate because any proximity seems to do it. Do you think she should simply kill herself because of her mere existence? Or try in vain to convince people that she knows vaguely they're going to die, but not how or why? Do you understand that neither of those are, like, workable solutions?

I already told you how, but you're not quoting that part of my post. Aside from that, the solution is completely obvious. If you're going to argue, then argue against what I've said (which is also the completely obvious solution). Again, you're strawmanning and ignoring arguments. Why are you so determined to excuse this mass-murderer?

 

[StormSen]

I'm not sure what she's supposed to do while still a kid? She already lives alone now that she's at more of a reasonable age for it. I guess she could go live alone in the rural mountains to avoid the possibility of being around people if that is causing death, but that isn't something she's old enough to try yet.

She's following her mom's last request to blend in and live after her mom stopped her first suicide attempt. She's still a kid. What is her "easy" solution as a kid outside of suicide against her mom's wishes? If she was like a 40 year old cook spreading disease then yeah, off to the mountains, but yall have a high bar for a teenager I guess. Kill yourself or no empathy for you.

She's old enough to live on her own. She's old enough to understand what she's doing. Hence, she's old enough to take the money that's been given her and live out in the countryside and minimize contact with other people. Her relatives know that she has a death curse, if she has trouble moving, then she can ask for assistance in doing that. She can take classes remotely. Do things online.

If Mom told you to go jump in a lake and drown, would you do it? Ditto with Mom saying, "Keep killing people. Just keep quiet about it." Yes, she's old enough to disobey her mom (who is dead anyway, because Komachi killed her.)

The reason I have no empathy for her is because she has no empathy for me or anyone else. That's regardless of whether she's done something wrong or not.

Kill yourself or no empathy for you.

Again, strawmanning and misrepresentation.

Also, you have too low a bar for teenagers. Teenagers may not be fully developed, but they are fully capable of understanding right and wrong and acting accordingly.

 

[cranscape]

I already told you how, but you're not quoting that part of my post. Aside from that, the solution is completely obvious. If you're going to argue, then argue against what I've said (which is also the completely obvious solution). Again, you're strawmanning and ignoring arguments. Why are you so determined to excuse this mass-murderer?

The top part of your post looked really OT to me as she isn't a sociopath or showing malevolent behavior. How she behaves stems from trying to live the way her mom told her to with her cursed vision. She's been told to be passive, agreeable, and blend to survive which is what she's been doing to a traumatized kid-logic level. So you think a good person, not "sociopath", should have done the moral thing and offed herself by now? She did try that as a child and her mom stopped it.

We know why she's stuck in this pattern. Now that she has a confidant besides her mom maybe things can change for her.

 

[cranscape]

She's old enough to live on her own. She's old enough to understand what she's doing. Hence, she's old enough to take the money that's been given her and live out in the countryside and minimize contact with other people. Her relatives know that she has a death curse, if she has trouble moving, then she can ask for assistance in doing that. She can take classes remotely. Do things online.

She'd just be killing the UPS guy or hikers. Drone delivery? Even an adult would accidentally kill people still.

She's a traumatized kid dealing with something she shouldn't have to using old rules her mom gave her to help her stay alive. She needs help and now has it because she finally told someone else. The fact she hasn't done even more to this point to deprogram herself, as a teenager, isn't a big issue to me as far as sympathizing with her.

I don't think we'll ever agree so continue enjoying the manga however you wish. I was just genuinely surprised people thought she had the means of an adult and a mental illness or whatever.

 

[deathpigeon]

I already told you how

You didn't. Like, you gave some suggestions... in the post immediately after this one, like living on her own, something she's already doing, or taking 'the money she is given' (its unclear how much money she gets) and simply move to the countryside, something that won't stop people from dying around her and she likely can't afford to do nor could she simply find a place where she could do that.

You also incorrectly said that her relatives know about her death curse. This conversation she's having right now is the first time she's spoken to anyone other than her mother (who is now dead).

You are assuming she can just do these things that she's surely thought of herself but nothing indicates that any of this is possible nor that any of it would solve anything. You're expecting a lot out of a teenage orphan who's dealing with a curse that she has no reason to expect anyone will believe her about because most people don't believe in curses.

Putting all of this on her shoulders is, in fact, how we got here where she's standing on the edge begging one of her few friends to let her kill herself.

 

[StormSen]

She'd just be killing the UPS guy or hikers. Drone delivery? Even an adult would accidentally kill people still.

The manga already made clear that it builds up over time. E.g. her Mom dies after she's "all black". It's the people who are closest to her, or that she is around the most, who die. Occasional exposure doesn't cause problems or else everyone in her neighborhood would be dead. So all she has to do is to avoid prolonged exposure. So living in a building separate from other people should mostly do the job. If she goes into town, if necessary, avoid going into the same place repeatedly. (Note that since she can see the darkness, she can act accordingly. In the extreme case moving from town to town would do it.)

Expense: One move to a remote town would relatively easy given her inheritance. Also, it's likely that her relatives would help if she needed a bit more help. Worst comes to worst, she lives frugally, travels frequently -- yes this would be a PITA -- but it would be better than murdering people around her.

She's a traumatized kid dealing with something she shouldn't have to using old rules her mom gave her to help her stay alive. She needs help and now has it because she finally told someone else. The fact she hasn't done even more to this point to deprogram herself, as a teenager, isn't a big issue to me as far as sympathizing with her.

The fundamental thing stopping her from doing the right thing is that she just doesn't care about other people. This isn't because of programming, or what happened to her, it's because she innately doesn't care. She's a sociopath. (BTW, "sociopath" seems to be a bit ill defined, so I simply mean a person lacking in empathy for other people. There's no connection, they don't feel other people's emotions. A person like this might still follow rules assiduously, and might never (or very rarely) do something malevolent. The defining characteristic is the lack of empathy -- other people are just NPCs to them.)

I don't think we'll ever agree so continue enjoying the manga however you wish. I was just genuinely surprised people thought she had the means of an adult and a mental illness or whatever.

Fair enough.

 

[StormSen]

You also incorrectly said that her relatives know about her death curse. This conversation she's having right now is the first time she's spoken to anyone other than her mother (who is now dead).

Her parents died. Her teacher died. The cousin girl who she was around the most died. People are superstitious, and "being tainted by impurity" (a sort of miasma of poison) is fairly embedded in JP culture (e.g. the taboo against working with dead/dying animals, so leatherworking, butchering, etc). So they don't have to explicitly know the details, they just know that death follows her (and she doesn't care). After her cousin dies and she reacts calmly, they pass her around the family repeatedly.

I'm not having to go through some convoluted logic in order to figure this out -- it's right there in the text. Why did you ignore it?

(I've covered the rest in my answer to cranscape.)

 

[catte]

Show me she sees herself now in that black aura. Show me she saw herself in it the day Satsuki saved her. Otherwise, I wont be convinced.

You can't bluff the power of knowing, whether or not you have it yourself.

That might be the black strands clinging to Satsuki's hair in the last panel, along with the darkness beginning to obscure her face. Or it's Komachi seeing what she thinks is the premonition of the death of Satsuki herself.

 

[kkjoo]

You can always count on the twitter-type people to blame someone for existing, I guess.