Watashitachi wa Moto Joshi desu - Vol. 2 Ch. 10

[ARRR]

I'm not sure why you're taking so much issue here with one adjective I used in my entire last post. .

Isn't it good when people take issue at being called transphobic if it's a stance that they agree upon? Taking issue means not wanting to be transphobic - it's good even If your opinions differ. There are many people (even in these comments) that would embrace being called transphobic like a shitty badge.

 

[ARRR]

(...)

You started an interesting debate, but man, reading you now is just embarrassing. Calm down, agitation posting and victimizing yourself is just cringe for every bystander. If you take offense in how the person you debate responds to you, just don't respond. This became some kind of shit throwing tantrum rather than actual conversation.

 

[ARRR]

It’s not fire force level author-insert cringe, but damn if it ain’t jarring. Sure there was a little foreshadowing in ch7, but I didn’t expected to get blasted with this.

What do you mean about fire force? I don't remember everything about manga but what was author-insert here?

 

[gartender]

Mom's not a biiiiiiiitch

 

[ScarletKomii]

Well she brought up her guy crush and not her being uncomfortable in her new body yes the body is quite different from her previous one but she hasn't been in this body for long enough to say yes I am extremely uncomfortable and rejecting of this new body

Chapter definitely leaves with some thoughts. She's absolutely right that your gender should be something you do for yourself and not anyone else since it's what you live with. But also the thought of dysphoria getting worse leaves me with a panic.

(no hard feelings to the two people I used as reply, I just needed few examples)

It's quite tiring to read so many comments giving the mom props for saying that "she has to do it for herself not someone else". A trivially correct point.

An absentee mom just 5 min ago heard that her daughter has a disease that drastically changed her body and she wants to stop further changes and mother's first reaction is to prompted by nothing to ask "WHO does she wants to do it for?" a bizarre question which wouldn't cross any normal person mind. "Hm my daughter doesn't want her body to be drastically changed into that of a boy? she must be doing it for someone, there is no other explanation" <- idiotic mom's thought process. She does the whole "mom know best" nonsense while being an absentee mother with no knowledge of the situation. And again the point of "doing it for herself not for someone" being trivially true doesn't in any way make this thought processes any less stupid and also there was no reason for us the readers, who aren't absentee parents and have at times access to internal monologue of the MC, to think that she wanted to transition back "for her crush" before she got out of nowhere gaslit by her mom this chapter - quick overview:

She panics at the beginning and is in shock for hours, then she is concerned about getting very horny because of girls and a first instance of anything to do with Yuuki is her noticing that her dick is not getting hard easily because of him. Chapter 5 p. 18 she gets depressed from being called a boy, chapter 7 p.13 during talk o Yuuki she says she is not a boy, she cries while talking about her body- no strong indication that it has something to do with Yuuki - then when he brought up possibility of her physique changing drastically (p22) she gets distressed (again no indication that it has anything to do with his view of her) and is imminently receptive to his suggestion of contacting a doctor to halt those changes, p24 she emphatically responds to a question about wanting to go back to being a girl with "yes", then we have her internal monologue reflecting onto that conversaion where she is ecstatic about him being understanding and getting his Line but doesn't say anything along a line of "I have to turn back quickly so we can date" or anything like that.

So there really wasn't any indication that she didn't want to become a boy because of her crush and it only became front of mind after the mother brought it up of nowhere and flustered her. Additionally, thinking about your presumebly straight crush not wanting to date you if you get your gender changed doesn't mean that you wanting to change back is now just "doing it for them", it being one of the things you consider is tottaly understandable and doesn't make it THE most important thing.

 

[Kirin-kun]

Man, if I ever get around to translate the next chapter, it's going to be even more of a shitshow comment section.

 

[Nicelittleotaku]

Can't decide if this chapter is trans-positive or transphobic.

Honestly same.
For a monent i thought this was going to super transphobic then it hits with the whole "do it only for yourself" and now i have no idea what to expect

 

[Blackspace_2]

wasn't the MC's crush also one XD the backstory from when he was telling "about a friend" was saying that he was one that got the disorder. I can't imagine the astronomical dysphoria a disorder like this would cause... WHILE with others I know how it would cause it to disappear instantly if they got it. >< I feel bad for both.

li = love interest

 

[definitionofinsanity]

You started an interesting debate, but man, reading you now is just embarrassing. Calm down, agitation posting and victimizing yourself is just cringe for every bystander. If you take offense in how the person you debate responds to you, just don't respond. This became some kind of shit throwing tantrum rather than actual conversation.

I'm responding in kind. If you throw shit at me, I will throw shit back.

Also, I never claimed to be the victim. Pointing out projection of shit behavior to those accusing you of it in the first place is not "victimizing myself," it's pointing out hypocrisy.

 

[Kirin-kun]

I wonder. Is telling the truth of the matters to a trans person, transphobic?

Mother just says to Rinko: "get informed first, don't rush your decision and don't get your hopes up because it's not all rainbow and sunshine and your disorder won't magically disappear". She doesn't even say she shouldn't transition or that she wouldn't be a "real woman".

But suddenly, she's the worst mother of all times to some people.

 

[portable]

Man, if I ever get around to translate the next chapter, it's going to be even more of a shitshow comment section.

Looking forward to it 😌 thanks for the translation
Honnestly this manga is already quitte interesting to be on the girl to boy and not the usual boy to girl.

 

[dedmoroz]

I wonder. Is telling the truth of the matters to a trans person, transphobic?

Mother just says to Rinko: "get informed first, don't rush your decision and don't get your hopes up because it's not all rainbow and sunshine and your disorder won't magically disappear". She doesn't even say she shouldn't transition or that she wouldn't be a "real woman".

But suddenly, she's the worst mother of all times to some people.

"transphobic" is too harsh a term; too accusatory. "unsupportive" may be better here?

"you shouldn't rush your decision" is good, BUT the conclusion should be "take hormone blockers/hrt to buy yourself time" rather than "do nothing." the mom is equally as ill-informed, if not worse, than rinko. more out of ignorance than malice.

i think the sus part is her bringing up genitalia, but again, it's really hard to blame her because 95% of cis people equate trans = cutting off penis in their heads without really thinking about how actually one would transition. and again, it's more out of ignorance of trans stuff/uncaring of her own child than malice. and it sucks that rinko suffers bc of factors completely out of her control, and that the options that SHOULD be available to her are not, also completely out of her control

tangentially it seems like rinko and dad dont rly know about hormone blockers either due to how they dont bring it up/refer to the entire process as hrt. so the mom is technically right but not in the way that the mom thinks shes right in which is INFURIATING

idk if this is what you've said already/trying to say tho, i didnt backread the argument, im just trying to diffuse here ig xd

 

[lukysoul]

just realized the english tl of the title is "we" are former girls... wonder if more than just the li used to be girls/ if any of her friends used to be guys

yea the guy she has a crush on is a former girl, don't you remember?

 

[lukysoul]

glad to see that, most people at least, in these comments aren't the insane "anti woke" type

anyway though, as a trans person myself this is a really interesting manga to read, thanks for the chapter☆

 

[NotSomeone]

No. We treat the leg to prevent death from blood loss and if it's impossible to be reattached, we tell the truth to the patient. We then will proceed with option the next logical option, prosthetic in case the patient wants to and are capable. However, we will not lie to the patient and call the prosthetic a "trans-leg" and let them pretend as an able bodied person by identifying as one. We recognize the biological difference that they now have over a normal person with two legs.

The leg analogy sucks. The point that you and a lot of other people seem to miss about the whole trans people stuff is that theres a big difference between biological (Male, Female) and societal gender roles (Men, Women).
Just think that even in a hunter-gatherer society men and women have different roles they need to fill (Men are agressive and territorial, women are creative and good at problem solving...)
The thing is, aside from giving birth and breasfeeding males can fill in most of the roles females normaly fill and vice-versa.

So a born male could never be a female? Yeah, he can't give birth or breastfeed
But can a born man be woman? Sure, if he fills the societal gender role we expect a born woman to fill, sure.
And if giving birth and breastfeeding are paramount to being able to exert the role of a woman in society, then a biological born female who can't birth children is not a woman by definition.

 

[ch2868]

Based Mother

fr i thought she was just transphobic but nope she actually came out with solid advice

I don't get the logic. Why wouldn't she want to do the surgery for herself? Did the girl always had some form of dysmorphia and is struggling with the concept of changing sex? Or is she also afraid of the whole surgery and hormonal therapy since it can be very invasive?

well we don't FULLY have the answer yet, but.... uh... I think we can assume that the whole "it's surgery" part is a clear and major factor. cuz... well... it's kinda a big AND permanent step to take. heck, not everyone with gender dysphoria even WANTS to go down the surgery route; many are content with just hormone therapy, or even social transition. in fact, in the way this is PROPERLY done, social transition comes first. they gotta check if they even LIKE how it feels to lie and be perceived as a different gender, after all. that's why catching the signs early and treating gradually has been found to be FAR more effective than what most trans people have had to deal with in the past (i.e. shove it away until you can't live with yourself anymore): if you find any of the less-invasive options will work in treating your gender dysphoria, there's no pressure to go "all the way"

as for the particulars of RINKO's case, this does get more complicated, cuz they DID live as a girl their entire life until now; the only reason to socially transition at this point would be to see what it's like being percieved as a boy. however, even THEY don't seem to know how they feel. I see two major factors influencing their desire to transition back:

1. this new experience is scary (for obvious reasons) and they think they need to "go back to normal"
2. they've got it in their head that "Yuuki will only like me if i'm a girl" (i don't think we don't even know if he's into them yet, or even what his sexual orientation is)

factor 1 is definitely closer to a "for myself" reason, but it could very well also be a panic response; if they realize after transitioning back to a girl that they actually DID have GD that went unnoticed their whole life, and they've kinda lost out on EVERY trans person's dream being handed to them on a silver platter. and factor 2 is obviously the part Mama is warning against capitulating to, cuz god forbid the relationship with Yuuki NEVER happens, they would've went thru all this treatment for nothing

regardless, they need one HECK of a therapist asap

 

[ARRR]

idk if this is what you've said already/trying to say tho, i didnt backread the argument, im just trying to diffuse here ig xd

This explanation was very helpful to me at least, thanks

 

[CEa_TIde]

"transphobic" is too harsh a term; too accusatory. "unsupportive" may be better here?

"you shouldn't rush your decision" is good, BUT the conclusion should be "take hormone blockers/hrt to buy yourself time" rather than "do nothing." the mom is equally as ill-informed, if not worse, than rinko. more out of ignorance than malice.

i think the sus part is her bringing up genitalia, but again, it's really hard to blame her because 95% of cis people equate trans = cutting off penis in their heads without really thinking about how actually one would transition. and again, it's more out of ignorance of trans stuff/uncaring of her own child than malice. and it sucks that rinko suffers bc of factors completely out of her control, and that the options that SHOULD be available to her are not, also completely out of her control

tangentially it seems like rinko and dad dont rly know about hormone blockers either due to how they dont bring it up/refer to the entire process as hrt. so the mom is technically right but not in the way that the mom thinks shes right in which is INFURIATING

idk if this is what you've said already/trying to say tho, i didnt backread the argument, im just trying to diffuse here ig xd

BUT the conclusion should be "take hormone blockers/hrt to buy yourself time" rather than "do nothing."

This is a very good point to mention. It will do more harm in the long run not taking hormone blockers and/or HRT, precisely because some parts of masculine puberty are irreversible (as of this moment). The author does seem to be aware of this from earlier chapters. And feminine HRT is almost entirely reversible, so she can stop taking hormones at any time.

The misinformation around vaginoplasty involving cutting of any penises, which is plain wrong, is unfortunate. It sadly also serves as a scare tactic to not take that surgery, but that's another point. But besides that, it should be noted that in Japan it is only a recent development that trans people don't need SRS to change their gender marker—only in October last year a trans women was exempted from the law, declaring the law unconstitutional, and in February this year a trans man was able to do the same. I wonder if the author, or indeed the mother in the story, is not aware of this development. Considering the form was mentioned to be for SRS first in Ch.8, but in the conversation with the mother it was for HRT, it is weird that these are conflated.

The mother is very unsupportive and misinformed at best, taking imperfect results as the reason to do nothing at all, and scaring Rinko with loaded language surrounding SRS while she is yet to start HRT, all the while the mother knows barely anything of Rinko's situation. Her mother assuming she is doing it for someone else is odd, considering she hasn't seen her in a while. And as ScarletKomii pointed out in the comments, in past chapters her inner dialogue shows this to be not necessarily true.

She is possibly transphobic, considering a lot of her remarks echo transphobic talking points, but I am withholding judgement on that until future chapters.

 

[Sonaldo]

The leg analogy sucks. The point that you and a lot of other people seem to miss about the whole trans people stuff is that theres a big difference between biological (Male, Female) and societal gender roles (Men, Women).
Just think that even in a hunter-gatherer society men and women have different roles they need to fill (Men are agressive and territorial, women are creative and good at problem solving...)
The thing is, aside from giving birth and breasfeeding males can fill in most of the roles females normaly fill and vice-versa.

So a born male could never be a female? Yeah, he can't give birth or breastfeed
But can a born man be woman? Sure, if he fills the societal gender role we expect a born woman to fill, sure.
And if giving birth and breastfeeding are paramount to being able to exert the role of a woman in society, then a biological born female who can't birth children is not a woman by definition.

You basically saying woman is a collections of stereotypes. So what is a woman doesn't want to fill the societal gender roles expected of them? Do they cease to be a woman? Whatever happened to challenging traditional gender convention? Also why are you generalizing cultures? You realize there's a lot of different cultures in the world? In most of the middle east for example, woman aren't expected to study or know things. So does that mean woman that wants to study isn't a woman? Which culture are we supposed to follow in these "woke" definition of woman that seeks to include everyone/not offend everyone?

 

[sebaasdf]

Two dramas for the price of one