Genjitsushugi Yuusha no Oukoku Saikenki - Vol. 4 Ch. 17 - The Battle at the Outskirts of Randel

[yohane]

@IvoryPuma the commander is the foolish nobles, that's just as expected lol

 

[nobaka]

@nep
not quite
fruits exist to be eaten, it's the primary method of seed transportation and reproduction. bitterness is an adaptation to target WHO eats the fruit

you think cranberries would still be around if no one ate them except humans?

 

[Yautja]

@Nep:

Spoiler

1. It was done WITH the express consent of the previous ruler. Hell, the guy pretty much ordered him to do it.
2. That's why its kept under wraps. Public perception would be 'King quells rebellion by corrupt nobles super fast'.
3. Actually restores stability because all the nobles were corrupt/spies/troublemakers. Gathering them in one spot and offing them is better than giving them the chance to escape and plot something else.
4. Resentment from who? The nobles? They already killed you once last time why care about them? The mercenaries? Thats why George gets executed. Its all kept under wraps as a failed rebellion.
5. Not much money is needed tbh. George wasn't planning on fighting. The biggest cost to the battle was the cannons which the nobles stole and the mercenaries which the nobles hired. One was unexpected expense, the other was uncontrollable expense. They are going to hire mercenaries to kill you either way.
6.Again, George wasn't planning on fighting. He didn't even move his troops. In other words, life lost = 0.
7. Maybe by modern standards. Please note that Mufasa here has no access to the internet and his neighbors (previous King/ Amidonia/ Dragon Duke) were pretty dumb. In-universe characters calling him a genius is well justified as they are all dumb.
8. Its not to sniff out corrupt nobles. Its not to test the new king (this is a ruse). It's a purge.
9 Its not really gambling when you have seen the hands before. Since you used gambling as an example, here is one. You are playing BlackJack. You see a future where you lose because you did not draw an additional card. So the only thing left to do is to draw a card and hopes the dealer deals bad card to your opponent.

Spoiler

1. I said both rulers for a reason, and specified that even with consent, the plan is retarded; good job taking that part out of context.
2. Still not the only problem. Public resentment against either side, tribalism, etc. You also know precious little of what you speak of if you think keeping shit under wraps solves most or any of the problems I complained about.
3. Hahahahaha. No. Post war, let alone civil war, is one of the most unstable point any country can be in aside from the actual war, and is arguably worse in some cases. This idiot isn't Tywin, and Tywin is an actual genius who enacted this kind of plan properly, and succeed, Even then, look at the end results. His plan is retarded.
4. Are you stupid? The citizens. The people who were unaware. The people who were negatively affected by a civil fucking war.
5. Okay, we're done here. "Not much money is needed" my fucking ass. To hire mercenaries and fund a war? War is one of the most expensive things any country can engage in. Even keeping up the perception of an ongoing war costs a shit ton of money.
6.Doesn't fuckin' matter. Just the announcement or perception of war leads to upticks in crime, not to mention there were actual battles. Pretending that no sizable death happened, directly or indirectly, is just contrived bullshit from the author and further illustration of your ignorance.
7. Ha, no. He's retarded by any standards. It's already been laid out as to why. Trying to pass of ignorance as an excuse isn't going to fly.
8. It's literally all three, and any one of them is incredibly stupid and an overly risky plan that could be done much in much easier manners.
9. Are you fucking kidding me? Jesus Christ. A gamble is defined as "take risky action in the hope of a desired result." That's exactly what he did.

Both of which are true, and I don't know, maybe doing everything he did sans starting the fucking war and letting everyone believe he's a traitor. Maybe encouraging illegal but less directly harmful behavior; having them commit serious crimes such as treason or preparing for treason seems like a pretty fucking good one in comparison to his dumbass plan. Or hell, painting himself as resentful to the king, gather like-minded nobles, have them prepare for a war and gut them once they've sufficiently committed; trying to replicate a red wedding seems like a good idea. A little boys club planning to assassinate the king, ending in Garfield sending his regards. Starting the actual war is what makes him a fucking retard, not his goals.

But hey, I'm not the genius and I don't have to come up with a genius plan to make the point that they're both idiots.

Delusional: "characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder."
Yup, delusional. An unpleasant truth isn't an insult. Also detailed what a personal attack is, so you can take that bullshit and shove it.

@Doodmandood

I never said you are attacking my English. I'm saying that despite English being my second language, I try my best to express my take on this.

And considering I never misunderstood or complained about your English, it isn't relevant.

"You can disagree all you want, and normally I don't do this, but you're plain fuckin' wrong."
Yes you did.

Now I'll complain about your English, that makes no sense. I did what? Saying you did disagree is not complaining about your English. Especially when you did disagree. This is where the delusional part comes in.

"You're either not looking at the big picture or simply delusional if you think any decision this overgrown house-cat made was anything more than lethally stupid."
There is no need to add that part, as this sentence would work without that.

Delusional: "characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder." Not looking at the big picture and being delusional are two different things. Both are relevant. And yes, I'd call what you said delusional, it fits the word perfectly.

This is quite insulting, so I considered this as a personal attack on me. Instead of typing this, you could just counter what I typed with what you considered to be correct.

To reiterate, an unpleasant truth isn't a personal attack. You feeling insulted doesn't mean it's intended as an insult or is a personal attack. I also did counter what you said, just thought I'd hit that nail on the head while I was at it. I don't really care if you felt it was a personal attack, it by definition wasn't.

"Acknowledging and addressing the fact you said extremely stupid shit is an unpleasant fact, not a personal attack."
"Thinking something is stupid doesn't mean I should ignore it, another false equivalence."
Then counter it with what you considered to be correct and point out how they are wrong.

I did, and the first quote is unrelated the the second. You also didn't reply to the first in that sentence.

"I don't like it when people play the "You're attacking me" and "I'm the victim" card to avoid acknowledging valid criticism. Something you're performing excellently."
How are insults valid criticism?

Already been here. That's also a straw man of what I said. I didn't say insults are criticism. Those "insults" are tied to and descriptions of the criticism. For example, you saying "the duke's plan is good" is untrue, to believe it is delusional. Criticizing your belief and defense of that and labeling it as delusional is a valid critic sim, and this very quote proves exactly what I said and what you quoted and are responding to.

 

[RandomDoge]

This looks like a festival of spoiler here lol

 

[GrimThoughts]

Why would Carmine say that all that’s needed is to keep up the pressure and then immediately switch to an attack tomorrow a few seconds later? Seems like an oversight by the author lol

 

[Tradless]

The last page was very cute, all of Champion Scans' protagonists

 

[boag]

@Andiza

Spoiler

Ah yes, im going to kill of myself, my troops and my fuck over my house just to end corroption, great fucking plan, very very clever and not stupid at all.

Its still hamfisted and its still the author pretending to be more clever than he actually is.

 

[morichiro]

Nice bonus on that last page! <3

 

[Doodmandood]

@Yautja
Insult
verb
to treat or speak to insolently or with contemptuous rudeness; affront.
to affect as an affront; offend or demean.
noun
an offensive remark or action.

The fact that you don't consider the offensive things that you typed as an insult, confuses me.

I don't really watch government debates and/or court hearings in my country; but one of my relatives do and I saw a small part of that, they focus only on facts and any offensive remarks are generally overruled. So I grew up with the belief that we should be polite in discussions instead of hurling profanities and insults, so that we can have a productive discussion.

I have had discussions against some of my friends and schoolmates before; and while there were profanities here and there, we were never rude to each other. And if I'm clearly proven wrong, then I concede wholeheartedly. Even on the internet, I've had a few discussions that lasted several pages of just us two discussing. Despite being longer than what we had here, both of us were polite and at the end we considered it a productive discussion.
There was no need for the rude behavior that you displayed, as I was not even that fanatical about what I typed and I could have been convinced with some more constructive discussions.
But when you started to be rude and typed offensive remarks against me, I'm sorry but, you already lost credibility in my eyes.

I have no plans to comment on this subject any further. So thank you for your time and have a good day.

 

[Yautja]

@Doodmandood
An insult is entirely subjective and though you may feel insulted that was not my intent, I don't view it as an insult and it certainly was not a personal attack. You can choose to be offended at a truth or reality, I however will not, and do not give a flying fuck if you are or about your confusion. Only an idiot would be offended at a reality and behave as if that constitutes an argument.

I don't really care about your anecdote or your beliefs. What's offensive is, again, entirely subjective. You may feel offended or insulted, I don't care, the words I used words are accurate descriptions when read in context. I don't care what you find works for you. Your idea of a productive discussion seems worthless and incoherent considering you have tried to pass off bullshit lies such as me personally attacking you or trying to pretend you agree with me, or that I've said things I haven't.

Again, I don't care about your anecdotes, I'm not your friend nor your family. I don't care how polite people have been to you in the past. You both lying about your words, and mine (trying to say we agree, that I have personally attacked you, etc) and trying to paint me as some bully because I don't particularly like you enough to lick your boots and treat you as someone I do like or respect don't help. You have been "proven wrong" to whatever reasonable extent is possible.

How many times do I have to say this? I do not give a shit if you think I was rude, or insulting, or offensive. I don't care for your patronizing attitude either. I really could not give a fuck how credible I seem in your eyes. So how about you take your delusions, your patronizing and narcissistic attitude and shove it? You've not once adequately answered my criticism of either the series nor your childish thin skinned attitude, and trying to paint my personal behaviour as the sole reason why you're stuck in your bullshit rut believing the bullshit you do is another load of bullshit I won't buy.

Behaving as if you voicing your opinion of my credibility is anything other than an incredibly pretentious, narcissistic and worthless comment that adds less than nothing may just have been the stupidest thing you've done on this comment thread. If you wanna talk about worthless comments that are unnecessary take a look in the fucking mirror. What an impressive display of hypocrisy. You are humble bragging and virtue signalling to a dizzying degree, and unlike your worthless anecdotes, psychology studies have shown how negatively people react to those, so quit riding your high horse and wonder, maybe, just maybe, your bullshit attitude has had an affect on how you've been treated.

 

[Saltyfish258]

Would you look at that, at bottom left corner of page 10 😂

 

[Iamnormal]

lmao the fucking death flag

 

[Andiza]

@boag its better than the entire kingdom destroyed lol

 

[larcek]

so.. they knew the fort received support by archers that can use wind magic.. and they decide to use air troups next? well, dunno if that was a good choice. at least RPG's tell us that this would be a very dumb choice to make.

 

[Nep]

@Yautja

Lol. Are we even reading the same story? You know the corrupted nobles alone are going to cause MORE problems in every aspect you listed down just by being there? One which would have the highest chance of being wiped out by the very same flawed plan that would cause the problems you speak of. They have tried being 'soft', it caused them their lives. |

Public resentment by the citizens? Doubtful since they are all already starving and Soma solved the food problem. In other words, all the blame would go to those that go against Soma's rule.

You are right in that funding an ongoing war costs a lot of money. Now think about how much more money would be needed if this plan did not happen? Not only would there be wastage by the corrupt nobles. They even intended to turn on Soma, causing a prolonged war which would inevitably cost MORE problems and money. Would also cause more lives lost, especially the lives of people that are 'more important' to the country like the people like loyal soldiers.


Also, its really only a purge. They already have a list on who the corrupted nobles are and George already knows Soma is worthy. Saying that it is to test Soma is really just a front.


No. He is not retarded by any standard. I would say that you are 'delusional' but thats really not the accurate word to use so here is a lengthier one. You are looking at things from a reader's point of view. From your angle, you can easily tell how things could go wrong, how the opponent could counter the heroes, etc. You know what's going on on both sides. You know of similar battles in real life and have more experience.
By those standards, George is not really smart. After all, he is the product of the author who is definitely not going to be a genius by any means.

Now stop being yourself. Go and be an average person in the story, a random noble, George. Pick one. Be them.

1. As George, I already know the future. I know who is plotting a rebellion. Now, I have two choices. Let the escaping nobles run away and cause problems in the future or to gather them at one place. They are already escaping thanks to the new King. If they do, there would definitely be trouble that I wouldn't know about because the future is already changing.
So how am I supposed to gather them in one place? How do I make sure that all of them will definitely gather at one place? The 100% chance way is to use George's own reputation to gather a rebellion. After all, they were already going to start one. Might as well let the so-called genius take the lead. Problem is now that they have gathered, is George able to arrest all of them without risking their escape? Remember that these nobles all have their own private army. The Amidonians would also then be able to take more advantage of the country again in the future as news of their arrest would spread.. Thus stupid plan Act 1 comes into play aka start a war. Also, as a person who knows the future and roughly how the nobles would act, its not really a gamble as far as war is concern. This is because every operation is risky by every means. Its not considered a 'gamble' if the chances of failure is low, which in this case it is because he 'saw' the future.

2. George being a genius... Are you seriously going to tell me George is dumber than the Amidonian King that goes Leeroy Jenkins? George is called a genius IN UNIVERSE. So judge him by in universe standards. Note that I never fully disagreed with you that he is stupid. Which is also why I left the 'plan is retarded' part out when I said he has consent. This is because I am not entirely disagreeing with you. The plan certainly needs work but you are poking at all the reasonable flaws without thinking too much on its true purpose along with the available information given to every specific character at any given time.

3 Do you know who George is? He is a Military Commander. Not a ruler. What he does is battle tactics which he didn't use because he wants to lose. He is called a genius because of his capabilities,specifically in the military department. He is the genius in the art of killing. He was never "genius of raw rational thinking". Why the FK would he know or care about civil unrest? What he sees are invaders (nobles and Amidonia) which needs to be totally wiped out for the safety of the nation. Anything related to civil unrest can be solved by the King who have already proven himself capable. That's like calling a fish dumb for not being able to climb.

These are also reasons why you need to give a better strategy to prove that the characters are retarded while aligning with their goals. Unlike them, you have all the information and none of that 'other motives' which may affect rational thinking such as Liscia or any 'obligations' in keeping secrets such as 'Listen to me~ I am from the future! Or at the very least, someone from the future told me important shit!' If I had to rephrase it, the flawed plan MAY ALSO be the best plan available to the poor sod and he is left in a 'take it or watch your country burn' situation, which I will assume to be true as I am not smart enough to find a better way without more information (like army size among other things). Which is ALSO why you kind of why you need to prove that there is a better plan to use.


Seriously. Judging the story is one thing. Strategy is full of flaws, author could have written it better, blablabla. Thats one matter and its fine. I will not patronize this story. However, judging a character is a different thing altogether. You cannot judge a character with the all-seeing eye. Lower yourself to the standards of the story setting before judging a character. If someone is called a genius, factors like who called him a genius and why he is called a genius must be taken into account. Like I said earlier in this comments section and not to you, this is considered fair. Its a form of 'realism' or 'immersion' or whatever you want to call it, especially when the statement is made by a character or by the world's POV for example, "XXX is knowned to be /famed as a smart person."

It is only retarded when the author PERSONALLY calls someone smart in nobody's POV. "XXX is actually a smart person" wrote an entire historical section about why this person is smart then the dumb fuck shouted out his strategy to his opponent.



(PS. I posted this once but the submit button wouldn't work. If there are two posts of this I sincerely apologize.)

 

[Yautja]

@Nep
Yea, reading all that I get three things.

1. You contradict yourself a lot
2. You really don't have much of an idea of what you're talking about
3. You think typing more is saying more.

Public resentment by the citizens? Doubtful since they are all already starving and Soma solved the food problem. In other words, all the blame would go to those that go against Soma's rule.

Yea, I wouldn't mind a civil war and tons of crime either as long as I was full. That was sarcasm, since I doubt your capability to notice it let alone think.

You are right in that funding an ongoing war costs a lot of money. Now think about how much more money would be needed if this plan did not happen? Not only would there be wastage by the corrupt nobles. They even intended to turn on Soma, causing a prolonged war which would inevitably cost MORE problems and money. Would also cause more lives lost, especially the lives of people that are 'more important' to the country like the people like loyal soldiers.

This from the brilliant mind that said: "Not much money is needed tbh.". Yea, gtfo. You and your infinite wisdom seem to forgetting this civil war is just the tip of the iceberg of problems this kingdom is facing and that goading a civil war is just about the stupidest way to solve all those problems.

Also, its really only a purge. They already have a list on who the corrupted nobles are and George already knows Soma is worthy. Saying that it is to test Soma is really just a front.

You can say that all you want, doesn't make it true. The spoilers posted by others and events themselves make it clear.

No. He is not retarded by any standard. I would say that you are 'delusional' but thats really not the accurate word to use so here is a lengthier one. You are looking at things from a reader's point of view. From your angle, you can easily tell how things could go wrong, how the opponent could counter the heroes, etc. You know what's going on on both sides. You know of similar battles in real life and have more experience. By those standards, George is not really smart. After all, he is the product of the author who is definitely not going to be a genius by any means.

*My best Donald Trump voice* Wrong. You don't need a reader's view to know that starting a civil war, in either name or action, in an already borderline collapsing country is a dumbass idea. You also seem to be neglecting the fact that this dumbass retarded cat is apart of the country and suppose to be a leader. Only a retard would start a war in those conditions just as only a delusional not-so-know-it-all would defend him.

Now stop being yourself. Go and be an average person in the story, a random noble, George. Pick one. Be them.

If I stopped being myself I'd be doing the same thing as everyone else, ignoring your delusional ramblings.

As George, I already know the future. I know who is plotting a rebellion. Now, I have two choices. Let the escaping nobles run away and cause problems in the future or to gather them at one place.

Then he's an even bigger moron than I thought, he didn't even have to start the war or even have any of it publicly known, with that knowledge there's an infinite number of plans better than this dumbass piece of shit plan. Good job shooting your already stupid argument in the foot and ruining it even more. What a fucking idiot that guy is.

They are already escaping thanks to the new King. If they do, there would definitely be trouble that I wouldn't know about because the future is already changing.
So how am I supposed to gather them in one place? How do I make sure that all of them will definitely gather at one place? The 100% chance way is to use George's own reputation to gather a rebellion.

Doesn't mean you need to actually start the fucking thing, good lord, you're giving Garfield a run for his money in stupidity.

Problem is now that they have gathered, is George able to arrest all of them without risking their escape? Remember that these nobles all have their own private army.

Yea, I bet those nobles brought their private armies onto the discussion table when Garfield was laying down the logistics and general roadmap for his dumbass civil war. Do you even think about the dumbass shit you're saying or defending? At least try and think about why your position is flawed. Good fucking lord. Just fucking kill them if you know they're going to do all that shit, no need to have them actually commit the crime any more. It's not like their some teenagers who accidentally got into a car crash and ran.

The Amidonians would also then be able to take more advantage of the country again in the future as news of their arrest would spread..

Yea, that'd benefit them almost as much as a civil war! Having all the roadblocks out of the way would benefit the country immeasurably. Access to their land, wealth, armies. Man, you really are making this easy.

Also, as a person who knows the future and roughly how the nobles would act, its not really a gamble as far as war is concern.

You strike me as someone who doesn't know what the words randomness or gamble mean. Especially when time travel is involved.

This is because every operation is risky by every means. Its not considered a 'gamble' if the chances of failure is low, which in this case it is because he 'saw' the future.

Never mind, now I know you don't know what they mean.

George being a genius... Are you seriously going to tell me George is dumber than the Amidonian King that goes Leeroy Jenkins?

No man could predict such a stupid fucking idea. This situation is the perfect antonym to Hanlon's Razor. No one person, let alone a revered duke, could create such a fucking stupid plan. Can't remember much about the other King, but I can't blame him for falling into such a stupid trap.

George is called a genius IN UNIVERSE.

Because this manga is CONTRIVED. Fuck off with your Donald Trump typing. You read like an idiot who owns people with DELUSION and IDIOCY.

So judge him by in universe standards.

I did, he's a fucking retard.

Note that I never fully disagreed with you that he is stupid... This is because I am not entirely disagreeing with you. The plan certainly needs work but you are poking at all the reasonable flaws without thinking too much on its true purpose along with the available information given to every specific character at any given time.

It's impressive how many people in this comment thread don't know what disagree means, we're up to 2 now. You clearly don't know what my position on this plan is or what the word disagree means. I think we're up to three words that you don't understand now, yes? If by working you mean burned at the fucking stake along with George, and those nobles, then yes, working. "Reasonable flaws" In what fucking world is starting a civil war a reasonable solution, in the middle of like 20 other fucking country ending disasters, the solution to weeding out already know criminal nobles. For christ's sake. Are you a plant? Are you here to help me make my point?

3 Do you know who George is? He is a Military Commander. Not a ruler.

A retard. He's also a Duke. We're up to 5 words now. Here, I'll explain these two. A ruler is defined as a person exercising government or dominion. Government means controlling body of a nation, state or community and dominion means sovereignty or control. Sovereignty means supreme power or authority. A duke is a British term for a hereditary title; a monarch ruling over a duchy (a country, fief or territory), or a member of royalty and nobility, typically directly below the monarch in rank. A military command already is in a sense a ruler. A duke, especially in a medieval fantasy setting is 100% a ruler, you fucking illiterate onion.

What he does is battle tactics which he didn't use because he wants to lose.

If by lose, you mean lose the fucking country, I agree. He's an idiot.

He is called a genius because of his capabilities,specifically in the military department.

Both of which are clearly over-hyped, borderline fraud. No military tactician would be this shit.

He is the genius in the art of killing.

Yea, suicide.

He was never "genius of raw rational thinking".

Rational thinking is a big part of war; do you even read the shit you say?

Why the FK would he know or care about civil unrest?

I guess not. That may just be the single stupidest thing you've said yet. Maybe because he seems or rather claims (by proxy of those writing spoilers) to be doing this for the benefit of his country, and a country in ruin or falling apart from civil unrest, a mild way of distilling what I said, seems to be counter-intuitive.

What he sees are invaders (nobles and Amidonia) which needs to be totally wiped out for the safety of the nation.

Clearly he needs to add himself onto that list if the safety of the nation is his concern.

Anything related to civil unrest can be solved by the King who have already proven himself capable.

Fantastic idea, let's add more unnecessary problems to the pile for a king already dealing with a shit ton of issues, when with the slightest thought those dumbass plans and problems could be dispelled as retarded ideas with much more suitable plans that achieve the same goals.

That's like calling a fish dumb for not being able to climb.

Not, it's like calling a plumber who bulldozed your house to fix a leaky pipe a retard.

These are also reasons why you need to give a better strategy to prove that the characters are retarded while aligning with their goals.

Not really, sophistry and fallacy, 7 words. Guess rational thought isn't your thing either. I don't have to be a football connoisseur, which I'm not, to realize whoever decided to have Seahawks pass a yard away from the goal line in the Superbowl made a Class A dumbass decision. I also don't have to provide a better plan to call the plan they choose to follow fucking retarded.

Unlike them, you have all the information and none of that 'other motives' which may affect rational thinking such as Liscia or any 'obligations' in keeping secrets such as 'Listen to me~ I am from the future!

Pretty sure everyone knows the country is going to shit and adding a civil war into the mix is a bad fucking idea. Almost none of my attacks on this retarded plan hinge of reader exclusive or poorly spread knowledge. The only one that does is the one that literally makes my point for me, with Garfield literally knowing who to kill and still electing to take the most needlessly dangerous path.

Seriously. Judging the story is one thing. Strategy is full of flaws, author could have written it better, blablabla. Thats one matter and its fine.

And that's exactly what I did.

I will not patronize this story.

8 words. How the fuck you patronize a story is beyond me, the author, yea, but a story? Lolno. You can't patronize an object. Patronizing attitude is almost exclusively attitude between humans. Unless you're talking about paying for it, in which case also kind of wrong, but also irrelevant.

However, judging a character is a different thing altogether. You cannot judge a character with the all-seeing eye.

Weird, cuz I kinda did, and no it ain't genius. A character is apart of a story and just as much subject to criticism as the story. Re: Fallacy and Sophistry.

Lower yourself to the standards of the story setting before judging a character. If someone is called a genius, factors like who called him a genius and why he is called a genius must be taken into account.

Re:Contrived. Any normal citizen could figure out "Country falling apart", "George start civil war", "George do that to help country", "George fucking stupid".

Its a form of 'realism' or 'immersion' or whatever you want to call it, especially when the statement is made by a character or by the world's POV for example, "XXX is knowned to be /famed as a smart person."

And in this case it's a contrived defence for indescribably stupid actions made by a half-wit who has barely read the arguments against him and certainly doesn't understand them or what a fallacy is.

It is only retarded when the author PERSONALLY calls someone smart in nobody's POV.

Re:Fallacy. Not how shit works, honey.

"XXX is actually a smart person" wrote an entire historical section about why this person is smart then the dumb fuck shouted out his strategy to his opponent.

Wow, that sounds fantastically like the situation here.

Yea, your entire response is all volume and no mass. It's impressive how much bullshit you spew up without saying anything new or of substance.

 

[Qelix]

I wanted to complain about how I fell, that impacts on stone masonry walls shouldn't form those kind of cracks and craters and how the carvery made enimy soldiers suddenly bleed by riding past them (Does fighting with a lance really work that way? Stabing sideways?), but that foxgirl megane and her hubby are just too adorable.

 

[Nep]

@Yautja

Congratulations on completely missing all of my points. Yours has all volume and no substance as well. Since you like less volume, I will try to make it shorter. (futile effort. Too much BS to point out.)

1. You contradict yourself a lot

No, I don't. Especially since I don't actually disagree with you on a lot of things. You only think I do because you are delusional.

2. You really don't have much of an idea of what you're talking about

You really have no idea what I am specifically talking about.

3. You think typing more is saying more.

Too bad there are so many things to point out just to make ONE point. Which you completely overlook because you only know how to have one point of view.

You can say that all you want, doesn't make it true. The spoilers posted by others and events themselves make it clear.

Sigh. In volume 3, there is this group of 'on the fence nobles' that 'did not leave any evidence'. They got executed anyway and without evidence. The others were either already charged with corruption and 'lost everything' or the ones asleep at home from overworking. Of course there is a list. Not every spoilers is entirely true especially since they come from people you call delusional.

Weird, cuz I kinda did, and no it ain't genius. A character is apart of a story and just as much subject to criticism as the story. Re: Fallacy and Sophistry.

You are still judging characters by reader standards which is something you are not supposed to do. Saying that its weird cos you did it is enough to tell me you are doing it wrong. Naturally this caused all of your extra long 'substance' to become bullshit.

Gambling - take risky action in the hope of a desired result.

Also, the one that doesn't know what gamble means is you especially since you conveniently gloss over the fact that not 'starting a civil war' have already proven to be the worst option. That discussion table thing? Did you really think all those dumb ass nobles are going to be in the discussion table? Do think they would not realize something is off if you try to surround them with superior numbers at said discussion table? Who is the one gambling here? By 'knowing the future', the 'plans' taken here has a significantly high chance of success. Yes, it is still risky but so is every other possible option.

Pretty sure everyone knows the country is going to shit and adding a civil war into the mix is a bad fucking idea. Almost none of my attacks on this retarded plan hinge of reader exclusive or poorly spread knowledge. The only one that does is the one that literally makes my point for me, with Garfield literally knowing who to kill and still electing to take the most needlessly dangerous path.

Are you sure EVERYONE knows starting a civil war is a bad idea or is it just all the readers? Again you are judging characters by reader standards or modern standards.

And no. You did not judge the story. You judged a character for being retarded specifically because he is dumb while the characters in the story calls him a genius. The story being stupid or bad is irrelevant. Fact is they live in a world where their citizens complain about starving because they all planted cotton and no food. As far as the story itself goes, EVERYONE in the story, from the previous King to the dumbest peasant, are IDIOTS. George may as well be a genius compared to them.

Also thank you for helping me make my point. There are 20 country ending disasters. What are you going to do about them? Note that dealing with 1 is going to make the other 19 worse and not dealing with any would equal checkmate.

A retard. He's also a Duke. We're up to 5 words now. Here, I'll explain these two. A ruler is defined as a person exercising government or dominion. Government means controlling body of a nation, state or community and dominion means sovereignty or control. Sovereignty means supreme power or authority. A duke is a British term for a hereditary title; a monarch ruling over a duchy (a country, fief or territory), or a member of royalty and nobility, typically directly below the monarch in rank. A military command already is in a sense a ruler. A duke, especially in a medieval fantasy setting is 100% a ruler, you fucking illiterate onion.

Irrelevant. The Dragon Duke was a Duke too but he was even more retarded. They are only 'Dukes' to 'balance military power' and is not a Duke in deed. No one called him genius Duke either. In other words, he is still strictly a Military Commander in every way.

Re:Contrived. Any normal citizen could figure out "Country falling apart", "George start civil war", "George do that to help country", "George fucking stupid"

Sure. Any normal citizen would have also recognized him as a genius before said event and then call him an idiot AFTER. Something I am sure the idiot doesn't mind. You are so focused in painting someone as an idiot you cannot even try to see who called him a genius and why he is called a genius.

Fantastic idea, let's add more unnecessary problems to the pile for a king already dealing with a shit ton of issues, when with the slightest thought those dumbass plans and problems could be dispelled as retarded ideas with much more suitable plans that achieve the same goals.

Please give more suitable plans or you are delusional.

characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder.

An idiosyncratic person is someone who does things in his own way.

I can see your 'points' that George is a dumb piece of shit especially by modern standards where nobody called him a genius. Which is why i didn't 'disagree' with you, hence the 'contradictory' statement. It wouldn't be 'contradictory' if you see it from at least two different perspective. Something I am capable of doing but not you apparently.

If you cannot see the 'points' or at least argue on the same setting that George is NOT a dumb piece of shit that probably have no other options and could be considered a genius in universe than you have proven to only have one view, which means you are an idiosyncratic person who does things his own way.

Also I do not need to point out that reality in this case is not real life.

Just to be doubly sure, what DO you think I am trying to tell you? No sense in arguing if we are both arguing about different things. Reason I ask is because you seem to lack the ability to have two or more perspective in any given conversation.

 

[Yautja]

@Nep
Not much to miss, and it's quite hard to miss when I quoted and responded to just about all of your ramblings.

No, I don't. Especially since I don't actually disagree with you on a lot of things. You only think I do because you are delusional.

You: "You are right in that funding an ongoing war costs a lot of money."
Also You: "Not much money is needed tbh"
There's definitely more, but I've already put more than enough effort into responding to you.

You really have no idea what I am specifically talking about.

No u. I don't even think you know what you are talking about. Especially considering half the dumbass shit you say is entirely irrelevant or provides credence to my point.

Too bad there are so many things to point out just to make ONE point. Which you completely overlook because you only know how to have one point of view.

No, you're just attempting to veil your stupidity behind as many words as possible. If you actually had a good argument you wouldn't need to reach so much. You also, again, highlight how little you've read or understood of what I've said if you think I have "one point of view". Everything can be distilled into one point of view if you got a simple enough brain. Good fucking lord, what a stupid counter argument.

Sigh. In volume 3, there is this group of 'on the fence nobles' that 'did not leave any evidence'. They got executed anyway and without evidence. The others were either already charged with corruption and 'lost everything' or the ones asleep at home from overworking. Of course there is a list. Not every spoilers is entirely true especially since they come from people you call delusional

It's almost like this is entirely irrelevant to what you quoted.

You are still judging characters by reader standards which is something you are not supposed to do. Saying that its weird cos you did it is enough to tell me you are doing it wrong. Naturally this caused all of your extra long 'substance' to become bullshit.

"Real standards" Lolwut. Says fuckin' who? Common sense applies to fictional characters too. Maybe you're not suppose to do it because it short circuits your brain, but the rest of us can. What a stupid argument, "it's fiction, you can't judge it with real standards". This isn't a culture difference, or a reasoned irrationality, it's plain stupid writing. It's contrived. What kind of idiot says "you're not suppose to use real standards". Probably the same kind of idiot who writes this shit and or defends it.

Also, the one that doesn't know what gamble means is you especially since you conveniently gloss over the fact that not 'starting a civil war' have already proven to be the worst option. That discussion table thing? Did you really think all those dumb ass nobles are going to be in the discussion table? Do think they would not realize something is off if you try to surround them with superior numbers at said discussion table? Who is the one gambling here? By 'knowing the future', the 'plans' taken here has a significantly high chance of success. Yes, it is still risky but so is every other possible option.

That's the dictionary definition hotshot. Oh yea, it totally has, totally not because the author contrived it that way. Proven my ass. You really don't think much. Do you and your dumbass actually believe he's going to be literally surrounding them with soldiers? A private meeting for nobles. Problem solved. He's a fucking lion. No one's putting up much of a fight against a giant anthropomorphic lion in a private meeting. Even as the retard he is, he could kill them all. Or you could go the classic route of poison. Fucking Christ, do your own thinking for once in your life. Not as risky and multi-variabled as a fucking civil war you insipid pencil licker.

Are you sure EVERYONE knows starting a civil war is a bad idea or is it just all the readers? Again you are judging characters by reader standards or modern standards.

Wow. Wooooooooow. "Are you EVERYONE knows slicing their wrists with a knife kills them, or is it just all the readers". That's you right now. Holy fucking shit. I'd say even the stupidest commoner in that world could realize that a civil war is a terrible idea, especially considering the existing state of the country, doubly so if he know the motivations, but if here you are, so I can't say that.

And no. You did not judge the story.

How many words we at now? 9?

You judged a character for being retarded specifically because he is dumb while the characters in the story calls him a genius.

It's almost like I did that, and judged the story. What would you call me labeling the story contrived? You really, truly have no idea what you're talking about. Also a straw-man, since I said a character is apart of the story and just as subject to criticism as the story is. So why on Earth you're arguing about me judging the story makes no fucking sense.

The story being stupid or bad is irrelevant

And then you go on to acknowledge my judgement of the story... Good lord.

Fact is they live in a world where their citizens complain about starving because they all planted cotton and no food. As far as the story itself goes, EVERYONE in the story, from the previous King to the dumbest peasant, are IDIOTS. George may as well be a genius compared to them.

Now that's a sweeping statement with little to know support and even less relevance but inversely populated sophistry made by a troglodyte who's exhibited delusion and ignorance rivaling that of the great fools of the 21st century.

Also thank you for helping me make my point. There are 20 country ending disasters. What are you going to do about them? Note that dealing with 1 is going to make the other 19 worse and not dealing with any would equal checkmate.

Wow. Wooooooow. That's literally the furthest thing from your point, and never have you attempted to make that your point. Are you trying to pretend you're me and have my views so you seem like less of an idiot? "20 country ending disasters, eh what's one more on the fucking pile"; "20K in debt? Might as well make it 40 while we're at it". That shit doesn't in any fucking way make your point. Please get help. Or run for office, you'll definitely win.

Irrelevant. The Dragon Duke was a Duke too but he was even more retarded. They are only 'Dukes' to 'balance military power' and is not a Duke in deed. No one called him genius Duke either. In other words, he is still strictly a Military Commander in every way.

10 words. Unless you're talking about you're response, in which case you're right, irrelevant. Good job straw-manning by the way. You're the one who said he's not a ruler, my response literally proves you wrong and you some how try to make it about about the Dragon Duke or geniuses. Literally irrelevant, actually irrelevant. The dukes are rulers. It's literally in the title description of "Duke". Also explained how a military leader is a ruler in a sense, but you've somehow ignored that. Are you off your meds?

Sure. Any normal citizen would have also recognized him as a genius before said event and then call him an idiot AFTER. Something I am sure the idiot doesn't mind. You are so focused in painting someone as an idiot you cannot even try to see who called him a genius and why he is called a genius.

I'm not drunk enough to make sense of this, but it sure looks like one of those fancy contradictions I mentioned. He's called a genius solely because of the author's contrived writing. His actions are contradictory to that label in every sense.

Please give more suitable plans or you are delusional.

Already did, false dichotomy by the way.

I can see your 'points' that George is a dumb piece of shit especially by modern standards where nobody called him a genius. Which is why i didn't 'disagree' with you, hence the 'contradictory' statement. It wouldn't be 'contradictory' if you see it from at least two different perspective. Something I am capable of doing but not you apparently.

I think I figured it out, you're schizophrenic, are those the meds you're not taking? Someone get this man his anti-psychotics.

If you cannot see the 'points' or at least argue on the same setting that George is NOT a dumb piece of shit that probably have no other options and could be considered a genius in universe than you have proven to only have one view, which means you are an idiosyncratic person who does things his own way.

He's got plenty of options, or he did until he locked himself into a civil war. Only reason he could be considered a genius after those actions is simple contrived writing, that's it. Anyways, that's whole bunch of illogical and fallacious jumps there. Who taught you to think? Are you Baron Trump? Or Don Junior? Probably Don Junior practicing your 2048 election debate strategies.

Also I do not need to point out that reality in this case is not real life.

*Cue Jon Tron what the fuck meme*. You really don't know what's going on, do you?

Just to be doubly sure, what DO you think I am trying to tell you? No sense in arguing if we are both arguing about different things. Reason I ask is because you seem to lack the ability to have two or more perspective in any given conversation.

Mother-fucker... why don't you read what I've said? I've made it clear what I think you're trying, and failing, to say, and how little you seem to understand of it. This is true blue, bona-fide, whale fucking, irony right here. You just try and not-so-subtly steal the ideas and positions of the person you're responding to and pretending their yours to make yourself more agreeable and appear less crazy. Half the shit you're saying is a "no u" / theft of what I've said multiple fucking times.

I really, truly don't know how to illustrate starting a civil war is a stupid fucking decision, especially when you have literal foresight, in general and in this specific setting anymore than I have. You're like an anti-vaxxer of literature.

 

[Nep]

These quotes below prove that you have no idea what I am talking about or convey, which is about why George is known as a genius. < Please read this carefully. I never said he IS a genius and I am not playing with words.

No u. I don't even think you know what you are talking about. Especially considering half the dumbass shit you say is entirely irrelevant or provides credence to my point.

No, you're just attempting to veil your stupidity behind as many words as possible. If you actually had a good argument you wouldn't need to reach so much. You also, again, highlight how little you've read or understood of what I've said if you think I have "one point of view". Everything can be distilled into one point of view if you got a simple enough brain. Good fucking lord, what a stupid counter argument.

It's almost like I did that, and judged the story. What would you call me labeling the story contrived? You really, truly have no idea what you're talking about. Also a straw-man, since I said a character is apart of the story and just as subject to criticism as the story is. So why on Earth you're arguing about me judging the story makes no fucking sense.

Now that's a sweeping statement with little to know support and even less relevance but inversely populated sophistry made by a troglodyte who's exhibited delusion and ignorance rivaling that of the great fools of the 21st century.

I'm not drunk enough to make sense of this, but it sure looks like one of those fancy contradictions I mentioned. He's called a genius solely because of the author's contrived writing. His actions are contradictory to that label in every sense.

And then you go on to acknowledge my judgement of the story... Good lord.

Considering the fact that I am talking about why George is called a genius...

*Cue Jon Tron what the fuck meme*. You really don't know what's going on, do you?

All the above quotes are the ones that tell me that you have no idea what I am trying to say. Most of them are not even worth replying to considering half of it is you ranting about me otherwise agreeing with you in a real life perspective before providing examples for the in-universe perspective.

Unless you're talking about you're response, in which case you're right, irrelevant. Good job straw-manning by the way. You're the one who said he's not a ruler, my response literally proves you wrong and you some how try to make it about about the Dragon Duke or geniuses. Literally irrelevant, actually irrelevant. The dukes are rulers. It's literally in the title description of "Duke". Also explained how a military leader is a ruler in a sense, but you've somehow ignored that. Are you off your meds?

A military leader is a ruler. A Duke is a ruler. A King is a ruler. A Teacher is also kind of a ruler. Funny how they have different job scopes. Here you are asking a military leader whose job is to tell his soldiers where to go and not die, to know and make battle plans in a checkmated situation that has absolutely zero detrimental side effect in running a country. Congratulations. Your employees must really hate you.



The best course of action here is obviously no action.

"Real standards" Lolwut. Says fuckin' who? Common sense applies to fictional characters too. Maybe you're not suppose to do it because it short circuits your brain, but the rest of us can. What a stupid argument, "it's fiction, you can't judge it with real standards". This isn't a culture difference, or a reasoned irrationality, it's plain stupid writing. It's contrived. What kind of idiot says "you're not suppose to use real standards". Probably the same kind of idiot who writes this shit and or defends it.

I'd say that its a writing to show culture difference and reasoned irrationality. Also, I didn't say real standards. I said READER standards. There is a difference but apparently you can't see it as well.

Wow. Wooooooooow. "Are you EVERYONE knows slicing their wrists with a knife kills them, or is it just all the readers". That's you right now. Holy fucking shit. I'd say even the stupidest commoner in that world could realize that a civil war is a terrible idea, especially considering the existing state of the country, doubly so if he know the motivations, but if here you are, so I can't say that.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Have you read Chinese war stories? They start civil wars on a daily basis for lulz. I'd say that you are underestimating human stupidity. You'd agree and say I'm stupid. But all that is irrelevant because no, the stupidest citizens in that world would not realize that a civil war is a terrible idea or even care that much about it for that matter. Maybe is America. This isn't America.

As for your genius plans.

A private meeting for nobles. Problem solved. He's a fucking lion. No one's putting up much of a fight against a giant anthropomorphic lion in a private meeting. Even as the retard he is, he could kill them all. Or you could go the classic route of poison. Fucking Christ, do your own thinking for once in your life. Not as risky and multi-variabled as a fucking civil war you insipid pencil licker.

You forgot to account for poison testers and bodyguards that could buy enough time for the many nobles to run and hide. Now you have an even worse civil war brewing along with the King having a reputation for assassination less than a year since he took the crown. The rot within the Kingdom continues to fester quietly and out of sight, causing many problems to sprout out in the future, if the Kingdom even lasts that long in the coming war. Mission failed.

Wow. Wooooooow. That's literally the furthest thing from your point, and never have you attempted to make that your point. Are you trying to pretend you're me and have my views so you seem like less of an idiot? "20 country ending disasters, eh what's one more on the fucking pile"; "20K in debt? Might as well make it 40 while we're at it". That shit doesn't in any fucking way make your point. Please get help. Or run for office, you'll definitely win.

So now we have several escaped convict who leak secrets to the enemy nation, a tyrant King that the people and subjects (like the idiot Dragon) have no faith in, there would be even more problems in making new policies, an enemy nation building up more military strength for a counter attack, and an even worse civil war at God knows when. I mean. Those are all as solvable as a staged civil war but sure, whats more country ending disasters on the pile right? Sure your plan COULD work but you fk the details right? You are the genius after all.

He's got plenty of options, or he did until he locked himself into a civil war. Only reason he could be considered a genius after those actions is simple contrived writing, that's it. Anyways, that's whole bunch of illogical and fallacious jumps there. Who taught you to think? Are you Baron Trump? Or Don Junior? Probably Don Junior practicing your 2048 election debate strategies.

Holy shit. Are you reading the wrong story? He is considered a genius BEFORE. Nobody is saying he is a genius AFTER. Also he was already locked in a civil war since chapter 1. I think you have dyslexia considering the fact that you conveniently ignore my explanations or turn my details around.

Mother-fucker... why don't you read what I've said? I've made it clear what I think you're trying, and failing, to say, and how little you seem to understand of it. This is true blue, bona-fide, whale fucking, irony right here. You just try and not-so-subtly steal the ideas and positions of the person you're responding to and pretending their yours to make yourself more agreeable and appear less crazy. Half the shit you're saying is a "no u" / theft of what I've said multiple fucking times.

I really, truly don't know how to illustrate starting a civil war is a stupid fucking decision, especially when you have literal foresight, in general and in this specific setting anymore than I have. You're like an anti-vaxxer of literature.

Starting a civil war should be a stupid decision but the other option is to risk an even worse civil war and while not solving several festering problems. On the other hand, if you start the civil war yourself, you could control it to make it less devastating. Of course you could ALSO fail but that wouldn't be any worse than the other option. What about the no civil war option? It never existed in the first place. He had to gather the nobles by sending out 'invites'. The only way to gather them is to announce that he is on their side. That itself already means he is a rebel. He obviously can't deal with all of them at the same time inside his own city (poison/assassination/etc is too risky and would likely end in failure) so he needs someone to do it for him. Then there is also the law where being corrupted don't get you killed but rebelling would.


Also, the only one "no u" ing here is you. You simply go "You are a delusional retard hahahaha" without even properly understanding what people is trying to say and half my replies were simply courtesy. Your flawed plan reply is one evidence of such actions. The only reason why you think I am stealing your ideas is because they are the best pieces of example to use for the person who used it in the first place (like the 20 problems) to prove my point. There is no sense in changing stages to confuse the evidently confused person even more (You thinking I am disagreeing with you proves it).

You want me to use my own examples? Sure. Here are some stories with epic hypocritical idiocy.

Ever heard of Liu Bei? He is known as an ideal benevolent, humane ruler. This is also the guy who threw his infant son to the ground and said that his wives are like clothes that can be thrown away. Does that sound benevolent to you? Of course not. He is known as benevolent because ancient community reasons. Its stupid. I agree its stupid. Yet this is how it is and Liu Bei even has a nice statue somewhere. I can even tell you WHY he is called benevolent as I wave a middle finger at this child abusing arse. It's mostly history and its 'romanced version' is also one of the most popular stories in China.

What about Harry Potter? Four houses going against each other, paint one as evil so that they really do become evil. Stupid castle with death traps, three headed dogs and whatever incidents every fking year and many many more stupid problems that would make this even longer with little to no public repercussions. The culprit for at least half of them is the Supreme Mugwump Dumbass door who has one of the highest positions in the Wizarding World. This showed a dumbass neglectful society. All in all, the story also makes no fking sense but Harry Potter is one of the best-selling book series in the world.

There is even one similar "stupidity"(calling people x when they are not x) in a certified historical part of a "bible" (religion not stated) that is purely human interaction and has no "Gods"(like splitting the ocean or w/e) involved. Mentioning it word for word would involve getting the living shit beaten out of you or organ donation. And that is as far as I will go with this because I don't want to die even though that would make this a lousy example.

Now we go back to George. Here I am telling you WHY he is known as a genius in universe. Sure the author wrote it that way. The author also had to construct an entire world with its own community, tradition, values and intellect. If the author makes the world acknowledge George as a genius then that is the intellect level of the Wifi-less world involved. Are his future civil war actions stupid? YES! YES! It is quite fking stupid (realism). Now go back to this dumb fking ass world intellect, knowledge, future predictions, and all that shit and take a second look. What I see now is that, no, it is not that stupid in universe considering all available information given to George at that point in time and the situation he was already in at that point in time especially when compared to the rest of the fictional society. George being an idiot in real life doesn't fking matter because his "Genius" tag is justified. That is why I said reality in this case is not real life (when it comes to the definition of delusion). The characters in the story call him a genius, he has to be a genius by THEIR standards and reality.

I don't even know why you think I am trying to defend stupidity by real life standards and modern common sense. ->

7. Maybe by modern standards (me agreeing with you that he is a retard). Please note that Mufasa here has no access to the internet and his neighbors (previous King/ Amidonia/ Dragon Duke) were pretty dumb. In-universe characters calling him a genius is well justified as they are all dumb.

This comes from my FIRST reply to you.

If you STILL have no idea what I am trying to say then you are just an idiot and if EVERYBODY doesn't know what I am trying to say (which I doubt) then I will blame it on my then certified atrocious explaining skills.

Good day, I have games to play and less one-track minded people to talk to. Talking with someone who is really talking about something else is stupid. Doubly stupid when said person thinks I am 100% disagreeing with him despite me saying that its not the case from the very start.