Is it really incest if they're not blood-related?

[tofuchan]

Q. Is it really incest if they're not blood-related?
A. No. It is not really incest if you're NOT blood related, end of story/controversy.

I don't care what people say about adoption or step-relatives - no blood means no blood.. It all comes down to Consanguinity ("blood relation", from the Latin consanguinitas).

Here's a little deeper understanding from the great world of wiki-

Consanguinity is the property of being from the same kinship as another person. In that aspect, consanguinity is the quality of being descended from the same ancestor as another person.

The laws of many jurisdictions set out the degree of consanguinity in relation to prohibited sexual relations and marriage parties. Such rules are also used to determine heirs of an estate according to statutes that govern intestate succession, which vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In some places and times, cousin marriage is approved and expected; in others, it is as taboo as incest.

The degree of relative consanguinity can be illustrated with a consanguinity table in which each level of lineal consanguinity (generation or meiosis) appears as a row, and individuals with a collaterally consanguineous relationship share the same row.[1] The Knot System is a numerical notation that defines consanguinity

If you want to argue about non-blood-relations being incest - well that's just MAN's law that's been established willy-nilly across the world to solve some kind of man-made dilemma. For instance adopting someone because you don't have an male heir, an you really want to stress that fact that you feel this adoption is meant to be, new "son" will inherit your power struggle and uphold the continuation of family name etc. You're not going to encourage any of your daughters to marry your new "son" because that's just gonna be weird for all involved. But I wouldn't care if a niece hooked up with him.....

 

[ABCsOfLife]

Oh yeah this reminds me..
Does it have a "term"? In the case such as:
A man marry a woman, and then the woman dies, so the man then proceed to marry the woman's sister.

 

[FireFish5000]

As complements for half-sister, step-sister, and sister-in-law, I suppose we would use something like half-incest, step-incest and incest-in-law.

 

[LowSanity]

@firefish5000 half-incest, i love it!

 

[Thoughtgap]

As far as the main topic, incest is simply defined as "sex with a family member".
This has three considerations:
1. Genetic
2. Social
3. Relationship Dynamic

Laws factor in all three elements, but modern laws typically primarily focus on the genetic and relationship elements.
Foremost, the most risky genetic considerations are utilized as the foundation of legal considerations, but adoptive relationships are also typically legally considered to be incestuous; At least, such is true in situations where the adopted individual is below the age of majority (regardless of whether or not they are of the age of consent*) [Example].
*Note: Age of consent is most commonly 16, while the most typical age of majority is 18. Incest below the age of consent falls under statutory rape (and potentially child abuse), so is excused from incest laws [which are less severe to begin with]

Generally speaking, laws follow a "two steps of removal" [eg, self->parent->grandparent, or self->aunt/uncle->cousin) limit to incest, but social factors may extend that reach. Moreover, even when the law doesn't extend further, society itself tends to frown on three-step-removed relationships (eg, first cousins once removed), though that typically fades by four-step-removed relationships (eg, second cousins). Other areas may even limit legal restriction only to a single step of removal. While this social element isn't important for personal considerations of incest [as it is based in social prejudice rather than clear premise], it is relevant when considering legality or social response.


Functionally speaking, considerations of incest break down to the following:
It's genetic incest if the members of the relationship are fertile and of opposite sex, have risky levels of genetic similarity, and are engaging in sexual activities.
It's social incest if the members of the relationship have risky levels of genetic similarity [as per the potentially subjective considerations of the local society] or established familial bonds or socially-expected familial bonds [as per the responsibilities inherent with adoption], and are engaging in romantic or sexual activities.
It's incest by way of a relationship dynamic if either member views the other as family, or if at least one member has a familial obligation [for example, as comes from being a caretaker**] to the other, and romantic or sexual activities are occuring. **That is to say, an adoptive parent being in a relationship with an adopted child will always be considered incest, though one can argue an exception if the caretaker relationship was perfunctory and brief, and the time that has passed since caretaking ended has been long enough to minimize the previous relationship. Children who have had to take on the role of parent for their siblings would also fall into such considerations.

Social incest is a tenuous consideration, given its subjectivity, but relationship dynamic based and genetic based incest are always considered to be incest, so those are the two elements to focus on.

Historically, the etymology of the term "incest" has never actually made distinction based on genetic factors, all historical uses simply clarify "close relatives" or "kin" or "kindred". Kin/dred means "relatives or close relations", so it has a broader scope than "close relatives" or "family". There's no basis to go simply off the biological definition alone, regardless of what certain cherry-picked dictionary sources may state, since that's just focusing on a single modern application at the expense of other modern applications, with no [historical] basis for such a distinction. Incest as a term has multiple uses, all relating to the same premise, so any refusal of any particular element is just willful denial.

In summary, incest can be determined in two steps:
First, if you care about social factors, simply look up the local perspective on such matters.
Second, if you are ignoring social factors or are safe within them, incest occurs when you are in sexual relationship with someone you share close genetic material with, or when you are in a sexual or romantic relationship with someone you have an established familial bond with.

Ergo, as far as the discussion in regards to manga/anime relationships involving genetically unrelated individuals, it would not be incest if both parties never fully viewed themselves as family to begin with, but it would be incest if they had at any point considered themselves such. Hence, shoujo manga where a romantic interest step-sibling moves in would be safe, but most of the "always thought we were blood related, but we're not!" narratives.. would still decidedly be incest (albeit genetically safe incest).


@ABCsOfLife
Sororate marriage is where a husband marries his wife's sister [due to death or infertility], or has sexual relations with his wife's sister with the intent of impregnation [due to the wife's infertility]. Levirate marriage is the version where a man marries his brother's wife [due to the brother's death]. Interestingly, but unsurprisingly, no infertility clause appears to have ever be practiced as part of Levirate marriages.

 

[Closedbox]

@LowSanity

YEAH BOI... it's humanity's choice if they want to fuck or not. if you know the consequence and wat ifs and you accepted all of it then fuck. as long as you are not raping the other party or you have consent then fuck.. it's their life your life then go for it. as long you are thinking doing the right thing then go.

@May_Lily

hmm based on your thoughts... you did incest...

@ABCsOfLife

WELCOME TO THE JUN- I MEAN INTERNET MY FRIEND.

PS: Animals do incest...

 

[FireFish5000]

Sororate and adopted/step sister are practically the same category.
[ul]

"always thought we were blood related, but we're not!" narratives.. would still decidedly be incest (albeit genetically safe incest).

[/ul]I don't get it. I could almost understand it if we word it "we have always been together, changing the relationship is hard" but.... that would rule out childhood friend (which is exactly what we are doing here, actually). I absolutely do not get why finding out that your childhood friend is not related by blood = incest.
What sort of disease is this "I thought we were related" clause? Is this where cooties come from?

 

[ABCsOfLife]

The first man went down on his own flesh and (literally) bone, and then they have kids, and then those kids have kids and so on...

POINT IS...
All in all, we're all a product of incestuous relationship and we're all potentially doing incestuous relationship with our SO. 😂

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

If you have sex with your married SO you're technically committing incest

 

[May_Lily]

@Thoughtgap

Wow! 😮You are very knowledgeable on this topic. As for the etymology of the word I cam see the term having a broader meaning since this this has been going on long before biology came around and even longer before knowledge of genetics we have today.

@Closedbox

What do you mean? I have not engage with sex with anyone so far in my life.

 

[Closedbox]

@May_Lily

It's a joke... since 90% of members in here are virgin GIRL...

 

[May_Lily]

Oh, I see. Okay! ^_^ Also I am a man.

 

[ABCsOfLife]

Maybe I'll be Tracer...

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

But I'm already Tracer!

 

[LowSanity]

@May_Lily GIRL means Guy In Real Life

What about Widowmaker?

 

[Kuki]

So if >

Dictionary.com

sexual intercourse between closely related persons.

Does that mean if one becomes very close with a person they married for like 40 years, they automatically did incest? Is that the reason why people divorce when they're close enough to avoid becoming incest?

Sorry... not sorry... but I have to do this.

 

[Ranzo]

Nah, one it's pretty gross, second, they are usually the worst romantic option to go with anyway.

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@Ranzo would you be into it if it wasn't gross?

 

[fagguette101]

gonna keep it simple:

legally, yes
morally and scientifically, no

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@fagguette101 scientifically no? But they're not blood-related...