Karate Baka Isekai - Ch. 5 - Karate vs Heavily Armored Knight (2)
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And suddenly the karate guy is using the Futae no Kiwami.
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@ninjadork
However, he didn't get cut. That's probably what has everyone raising an eyebrow. There are real fights where people actually take bruises and get wounded in the confrontation then there's this where the guy supposedly has no cheat skills like a body with higher durability and somehow he blocks a blade with his arm and punches a hole through metal. Both of which are considered abnormal.
The only way they get around this is if the blade is dull on both ends because from what I can see, or from the way it's drawn, that's a double-edged sword.
The other thing, sure martial artists or people as you argue can break wood, maybe stone, with their bare hands through technique, but not metal. I've yet to see a martial artist blow a hole through metal. Definitely not without some serious injury to themselves. And definitely not with enough force to blow a hole out of the backside of some armor. This is where readers will raise an eyebrow, especially people who are not proponents of inner energy doing something like that. That gets into supernatural territory.
Edited to add: Once the guy was brought into a fantasy world then all arguments about what would happen in reality were out the window. My general point is that I've been in real fights and flesh and bone causes enough wounds when used against flesh and bone even when you're used to hitting or getting hit. That's why boxers tape their hands and wear gloves. So imagine what metal would do to him if this was real, but it's not. It's fiction. Still, the author set the story's internal logic and now they're breaking said internal logic, as far as some people are concerned. I can understand where they're coming from.
However, he didn't get cut. That's probably what has everyone raising an eyebrow. There are real fights where people actually take bruises and get wounded in the confrontation then there's this where the guy supposedly has no cheat skills like a body with higher durability and somehow he blocks a blade with his arm and punches a hole through metal. Both of which are considered abnormal.
The only way they get around this is if the blade is dull on both ends because from what I can see, or from the way it's drawn, that's a double-edged sword.
The other thing, sure martial artists or people as you argue can break wood, maybe stone, with their bare hands through technique, but not metal. I've yet to see a martial artist blow a hole through metal. Definitely not without some serious injury to themselves. And definitely not with enough force to blow a hole out of the backside of some armor. This is where readers will raise an eyebrow, especially people who are not proponents of inner energy doing something like that. That gets into supernatural territory.
Edited to add: Once the guy was brought into a fantasy world then all arguments about what would happen in reality were out the window. My general point is that I've been in real fights and flesh and bone causes enough wounds when used against flesh and bone even when you're used to hitting or getting hit. That's why boxers tape their hands and wear gloves. So imagine what metal would do to him if this was real, but it's not. It's fiction. Still, the author set the story's internal logic and now they're breaking said internal logic, as far as some people are concerned. I can understand where they're coming from.
@Elroy79 I'm quite certain that he did get cut; I'm just saying that we should wait for the next chapter to see that laid out for us, since the time span between the block and the chapter end is a fraction of a second.
And a serious question; have you ever in your life seen a martial artist who explicitly trains to kill people primarily with their bare hands? Have you ever seen a martial artist who obsessively trains to the degree our MC does? Have you ever seen a martial arts dojo that advertises its teachings for violence? If you're anything like 99% of people, the answer is no and that's where I have a problem with this kind of statement. You are making an absolute judgement about what kind of violence the human body is physically capable of based on data provided by folks who very explicitly refuse to explore that field. Oh sure, you'll get into fights and many people will train to deal with violence; but I would bet money that neither you, nor anyone you have ever met, has explicitly trained to find the utmost limit of how big a can of fisticuff-whoopass you can create and use.
And I never said he had / could damage(d) the back-plate of the cuirass; I explicitly called that "anime exaggeration".
And a serious question; have you ever in your life seen a martial artist who explicitly trains to kill people primarily with their bare hands? Have you ever seen a martial artist who obsessively trains to the degree our MC does? Have you ever seen a martial arts dojo that advertises its teachings for violence? If you're anything like 99% of people, the answer is no and that's where I have a problem with this kind of statement. You are making an absolute judgement about what kind of violence the human body is physically capable of based on data provided by folks who very explicitly refuse to explore that field. Oh sure, you'll get into fights and many people will train to deal with violence; but I would bet money that neither you, nor anyone you have ever met, has explicitly trained to find the utmost limit of how big a can of fisticuff-whoopass you can create and use.
And I never said he had / could damage(d) the back-plate of the cuirass; I explicitly called that "anime exaggeration".
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Edited for additional thoughts
@ninjadork
He didn't get cut. Assuming it has a sharp edge, a sword moving at that speed should slice through flesh or at least make a gash. There is absolutely no way, from a realistic point of view, that the MC would come out of that unscathed or even moderately wounded. He should have a decent injury blocking a sharp, double-edged sword with just his wrist.
While I'll admit the little black dots may make it seem like he's been cut if you go back a few panels, you'll see the author uses the same black dots to indicate when MC took a hit, but panels after that the MC appears unscathed. That's what I mean.
Granted, this chapter ends without giving us a full view of the MC, but I suspect the author's intention is to show the superiority of karate, from a fictional perspective, and the MC will be unscathed because that's the point of this moment in the story. To show that he can take on a fully armored man wielding a deadly weapon and a shield with his bare hands and come out unscathed.
As to your question.
I've experienced violence. Martial Art, as we've come to understand it today, is a form of learning how to fight with one's body, it is not the end-all-be-all of fighting arts. In reality, Martial Art is simply learning military art forms of fighting which mean guns, swords, hand-to-hand combat, etc. anything that fits into the realm of military combat. Still, what we know of it today came out of people actually fighting and deciding what techniques best worked. It's not a mysterious mystical thing that is somehow beyond people. I'll grant you that most people have a fictional understanding of the artform just like they usually have a fictional understanding of plenty of things in the athletic realm. I'll also grant you that plenty of physical limitations that people believe in can be broken, but that is abnormal, it is not the normal day to day reality of most people. For most people, even someone well trained like military combatant or special forces operator, they'll tell you that facing off with someone with a weapon with your bare hands likely means you are going to get hurt even if you come out of it with a victory. Hell they'll tell you even if you have a weapon you're likely to come out of the situation hurt, maybe dead. For most people, this is the reality. For a few people, they can achieve the abnormal. But all of us are still mortal and mortality has its limitations.
The problem for me is I see you as taking a fictional understanding from, for sake of argument, stuff in movies like Bruce Lee beating down several sword-wielding opponents and coming out without a scratch. (Although I enjoy and respect Bruce and Jeet Kune Do) I've been in real fights, been in the military, and while it is possible for a human being to fight barehanded against another human being with a weapon, the odds are likely the unarmed individual is going to incur serious injuries or die depending on the type of weapon unless said unarmed individual has significant training. But said training only gives said unarmed individual enough edge to potentially not die. It's not a guarantee. That's my point.
Whether I know or have seen someone who trained their bodies in the way that the MC has is moot mostly because this is a fictional story and anyone wrestling a bear to the ground bare-handed will fit into that realm of fictional storytelling. You only ever see that type of training in these types of stories. Case and point, if you seriously think you're going to see somebody train themselves like an anime character then go into the wilderness and fight animals unarmed, you're being a little naive here about the reality of human limitations versus animals that are usually severely stronger and faster than us.
People ask if Usain Bolt, for instance, can outrun some of the fastest animals alive like Ostriches and Cheetahs and while analysis shows he could come close, he can't. Usain bolt is an abnormality amongst humanity with his speed due to his training and genetics, but he can't outrun the fastest animals alive.
Real fighting professionals and athletes know their limitations as human beings and thus that's the reason they know to push them. It also allows them to know their disciples' limitations as human beings so they can push them. Anything beyond that is well...abnormal. Again, my entire point on this.
Fair enough, I didn't see where you called him blowing out the back-plate of the armor "Anime Exaggeration" but then again your argument seems to support the idea that this entire thing shouldn't be called abnormal. When in reality, in my opinion, MC should've run to get a weapon to, at the very least, cause some damage on his armored opponent or the author should've researched the weaknesses of armor for the MC to exploit. Thus, as you said, this is obviously intended to be "anime/manga exaggeration" in order to emphasize the superiority of MC's karate and to be an inside joke for the story that MC is obviously already abnormal.
@ninjadork
He didn't get cut. Assuming it has a sharp edge, a sword moving at that speed should slice through flesh or at least make a gash. There is absolutely no way, from a realistic point of view, that the MC would come out of that unscathed or even moderately wounded. He should have a decent injury blocking a sharp, double-edged sword with just his wrist.
While I'll admit the little black dots may make it seem like he's been cut if you go back a few panels, you'll see the author uses the same black dots to indicate when MC took a hit, but panels after that the MC appears unscathed. That's what I mean.
Granted, this chapter ends without giving us a full view of the MC, but I suspect the author's intention is to show the superiority of karate, from a fictional perspective, and the MC will be unscathed because that's the point of this moment in the story. To show that he can take on a fully armored man wielding a deadly weapon and a shield with his bare hands and come out unscathed.
As to your question.
I've experienced violence. Martial Art, as we've come to understand it today, is a form of learning how to fight with one's body, it is not the end-all-be-all of fighting arts. In reality, Martial Art is simply learning military art forms of fighting which mean guns, swords, hand-to-hand combat, etc. anything that fits into the realm of military combat. Still, what we know of it today came out of people actually fighting and deciding what techniques best worked. It's not a mysterious mystical thing that is somehow beyond people. I'll grant you that most people have a fictional understanding of the artform just like they usually have a fictional understanding of plenty of things in the athletic realm. I'll also grant you that plenty of physical limitations that people believe in can be broken, but that is abnormal, it is not the normal day to day reality of most people. For most people, even someone well trained like military combatant or special forces operator, they'll tell you that facing off with someone with a weapon with your bare hands likely means you are going to get hurt even if you come out of it with a victory. Hell they'll tell you even if you have a weapon you're likely to come out of the situation hurt, maybe dead. For most people, this is the reality. For a few people, they can achieve the abnormal. But all of us are still mortal and mortality has its limitations.
The problem for me is I see you as taking a fictional understanding from, for sake of argument, stuff in movies like Bruce Lee beating down several sword-wielding opponents and coming out without a scratch. (Although I enjoy and respect Bruce and Jeet Kune Do) I've been in real fights, been in the military, and while it is possible for a human being to fight barehanded against another human being with a weapon, the odds are likely the unarmed individual is going to incur serious injuries or die depending on the type of weapon unless said unarmed individual has significant training. But said training only gives said unarmed individual enough edge to potentially not die. It's not a guarantee. That's my point.
Whether I know or have seen someone who trained their bodies in the way that the MC has is moot mostly because this is a fictional story and anyone wrestling a bear to the ground bare-handed will fit into that realm of fictional storytelling. You only ever see that type of training in these types of stories. Case and point, if you seriously think you're going to see somebody train themselves like an anime character then go into the wilderness and fight animals unarmed, you're being a little naive here about the reality of human limitations versus animals that are usually severely stronger and faster than us.
People ask if Usain Bolt, for instance, can outrun some of the fastest animals alive like Ostriches and Cheetahs and while analysis shows he could come close, he can't. Usain bolt is an abnormality amongst humanity with his speed due to his training and genetics, but he can't outrun the fastest animals alive.
Real fighting professionals and athletes know their limitations as human beings and thus that's the reason they know to push them. It also allows them to know their disciples' limitations as human beings so they can push them. Anything beyond that is well...abnormal. Again, my entire point on this.
Fair enough, I didn't see where you called him blowing out the back-plate of the armor "Anime Exaggeration" but then again your argument seems to support the idea that this entire thing shouldn't be called abnormal. When in reality, in my opinion, MC should've run to get a weapon to, at the very least, cause some damage on his armored opponent or the author should've researched the weaknesses of armor for the MC to exploit. Thus, as you said, this is obviously intended to be "anime/manga exaggeration" in order to emphasize the superiority of MC's karate and to be an inside joke for the story that MC is obviously already abnormal.
@Elroy79 You are ignoring my claims and replacing them with straw men.
How much time do you believe has passed between the moment he blocks the sword and the moment of the last frame? Please answer with a numerical estimate.
Do you and the people you know practice to
A) Get away from violence, and mitigate it if you can't escape
B) Kill people by any means necessary
C) Kill people exclusively with your bare hands regardless of circumstance, with all other possibilities (knife, gun, environment, etc) either ignored or considered tertiary at best
Please answer with the letter of your choice.
How much time do you believe has passed between the moment he blocks the sword and the moment of the last frame? Please answer with a numerical estimate.
Do you and the people you know practice to
A) Get away from violence, and mitigate it if you can't escape
B) Kill people by any means necessary
C) Kill people exclusively with your bare hands regardless of circumstance, with all other possibilities (knife, gun, environment, etc) either ignored or considered tertiary at best
Please answer with the letter of your choice.
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@ninjadork
I'm responding to you within the context of 1) the story in question, 2) anime/manga extremes, 3) fictional understanding of fighting whether it be people using martial arts or not, 2) some understanding of actually getting in fights, and lastly 4) some understanding of actual limitations of humanity.
You're the one who asked:
By the way, you're putting a lot of time into arguing about a character in a story that has Baka in the title. That should give you thought about the actual merit of MC's chosen path.
Time
How am I supposed to know how much time has actually passed? Seconds, minutes, it doesn't look like much.
Besides, how much time has passed is moot. The obvious point is that the author used the black dots to indicate a hit on the MC, that same thing was used when he blocked the sword. Again, I said to get around this the sword will either be shown to be dull or the author is simply going for an inside joke or point that the MC is obviously abnormal.
Plus, the amount of time passing is also moot since if the author was going for a bit more realism, which the author is obviously not, you'd have seen the injury at the moment of impact with the sword. When I cut myself or someone cuts themselves accidentally with a knife it doesn't take hours for the injury to show.
Lastly, I also said that we don't get to see anything after the sword blocking aside from what I pointed out because the chapter immediately ends. So we don't get to see anything like say the MC bleeding from his wrists after the action scene is over. That might be shown in the next chapter, but I theorized it wouldn't be based on what we've seen so far.
A, B, or C
What is your point in asking this question? I suspect that I know, but what?
I'm responding to you within the context of 1) the story in question, 2) anime/manga extremes, 3) fictional understanding of fighting whether it be people using martial arts or not, 2) some understanding of actually getting in fights, and lastly 4) some understanding of actual limitations of humanity.
You're the one who asked:
He is the type to take on a 4 ton truck in order to prove he is the strongest so I answered within that context. The rest of your question was answered in the same vein.
By the way, you're putting a lot of time into arguing about a character in a story that has Baka in the title. That should give you thought about the actual merit of MC's chosen path.
Time
How am I supposed to know how much time has actually passed? Seconds, minutes, it doesn't look like much.
Besides, how much time has passed is moot. The obvious point is that the author used the black dots to indicate a hit on the MC, that same thing was used when he blocked the sword. Again, I said to get around this the sword will either be shown to be dull or the author is simply going for an inside joke or point that the MC is obviously abnormal.
Plus, the amount of time passing is also moot since if the author was going for a bit more realism, which the author is obviously not, you'd have seen the injury at the moment of impact with the sword. When I cut myself or someone cuts themselves accidentally with a knife it doesn't take hours for the injury to show.
Lastly, I also said that we don't get to see anything after the sword blocking aside from what I pointed out because the chapter immediately ends. So we don't get to see anything like say the MC bleeding from his wrists after the action scene is over. That might be shown in the next chapter, but I theorized it wouldn't be based on what we've seen so far.
A, B, or C
What is your point in asking this question? I suspect that I know, but what?
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Honestly it doesn't matter if he's superhuman or something. The fact that there were a few chapters spent telling us he couldn't just power his way through plate armour with his barehands, only to then turn around and say he can just ruins it. What was even the point of it all? Why bother wasting time with setting up all those rules if you're just going to break them like this?
It was cool to see him running into the crowd and then karate chopping a chandelier chain (we can accept that, if he can smash a minotaur's skull) to drop on the knight. It really didn't need to have him smash through plate armour in the end. Thoroughly disappointed, and if his wrist isn't bleeding from that block, then there better be a damn good explanation.
It was cool to see him running into the crowd and then karate chopping a chandelier chain (we can accept that, if he can smash a minotaur's skull) to drop on the knight. It really didn't need to have him smash through plate armour in the end. Thoroughly disappointed, and if his wrist isn't bleeding from that block, then there better be a damn good explanation.
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MMA > Karate >> Tae Kwon Do >>> Kung Fu
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@womangadex : Wushu >>> TKD > Karate .... and MMA is just that: mixed.
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