Koushaku Reijou no Tashinami - Vol. 6 Ch. 44

[west23]

Man, I think it's stupid that she cried in the arms of the prince. In the end she still needed to be rescued. Would the prince ask a guy to cry? I wished it was the other way around or at least for her to help the prince first. Now she is reduced to a weak damsel in distress. I don't like the direction this is going in at all. You have this awesome, confident and brave female character and in the end you make her dependent on a guy.

 

[Narehate]

@hu74n

 

[maddery]

What's wrong with trying to remain strong in the face of hardship?! That's a very wrong message you're trying to send here author! Is it because she is a woman that she must be weak and helpless when facing this kind of situation?!

I'm liking Iris less and less as the story goes on. She was fine before the author decided to reduce her to a damsel-in-distress after being excommunicated by the church.

 

[Liver]

@maddery
The problem is bottling up your emotions. When it's so clear that there's such a big problem to everyone around you, everyone that cares for you, it'll only hurt everyone and yourself more if you don't even try to deal with those feelings.
Everyone has a weak moment and that doesn't harm her character in any way. She's still going strong and moving towards are solution, but with the help of those around her. She's not stopping and letting Dean do all the work, they're working in tandem, leaning on each other to overcome this. If anything, this is an empowering arc in the story for her character.

 

[thehungryspirit]

@maddery
In my opinion, there's nothing wrong about Iris's emotions in this chapter. Imagine: she was given the task of governing a fief, only to be basically branded as a criminal and the nation's enemy. If Iris makes a single wrong move, she and her family will be ruined. She has no one who is capable enough to help her, leaving her to fight alone. Her opponent also has the upper hand, since the Darryl faith supposedly has the backing of God. With all of this on Iris' shoulders, it's pretty natural for her to feel pressured and weak right? Especially since there's nothing she can do except risk everything on a plan that might not work...

I also agree with @Liver, it's not good to bottle up your emotions either, which is exactly what Iris did when faced with the excommunication...

 

[chenando1]

Imo I think it wasn't bad what iris did. She went full Chika Takami (from love live sunshine) when they didn't do well in one of the competitions and all the girls cried except her but when one of her friends was nagging her (the exact same way Dean did) she finally cried her frustration of not winning and because of that they found the strength they needed to win in the next tournaments.
My point is Iris needed to cry and of course she needed as well to rely on somebody (in this case Dean) cuz facing those problems alone was way too much for her. It's true there are many things one can do alone but there are way more things one can do by relying on others.

 

[Acolytus]

How the fuck is she a damsel in distress? She has done nothing but try to solve her own problems from the very first moment instead of just crying and doing nothing. That's like the fucking opposote of a damsel in distress.

The thing with Dean wasn't even about "saving" her but rather making her realize that hiding her pain and stress from her loved ones and trying to deal with all that shit on her own will only break her in the end. Dean was just giving her the chance to unwind and some much needed emotional support.

It's not eve like emotional ourtbusts where one shows their weak side is a female-only thing. For example: Subaru's speech to Rem in Re:Zero.

If her relying on a man bothers you then that's a different issue but calling her a damsel in distress when she is proactive is just dumb.

 

[Sparrow75]

I feel like the artists depiction of irises desperation and despair was a little over the top, I’m not saying she should tone it down, this is an impactful scene about iris catharsis, so having it be impactful and Bold is important. but I wish it was a little less messy and had more subtlety in it.
There were certain small ways that’s the artist drew the characters expressions that were just slightly off as she tries to make it as bold and strong an image as possible, it loses any subtle charm and also fails to depict or convey the characters currents emotions and mindset convincingly.

In its own without context, it’s looks pretty great, is Bold, and has impact, but it’s too stand alone and doesn’t fit together on whole with the narrative.

As I said, it’s slightly off.

 

[ShinobuOshino]

What a manipulative prince. But I guess no one does anything without a gain. Particularly that grin at page 17 that (probably) means something along the lines of "girl conquered".

@west23
I totally agree.
But I like even less what happened first thing in the morning as it showed that it wasn't just a failure of just a night: the next morning she wasn't angry of her failure, she acknowledged her failure, but she still indulged in the comfort. She went from "strong girl" -> "girl that forced herself to go forward" -> "girl that when weak falls for standard tactics" -> "weak girl that after comfort and a sleep is not able to stand back up by herself from emotional manipulation". And that means that -as she said- even the strength showed in the end was only a borrowed strength, not hers anymore. It's gonna take a bit of time before she can get back to what she showed to be before, if it ever happens. Unless they downplay the fact that she totally crumbled, which would be bad in an other way.

 

[mahtan]

Look at page 7 while ignoring the speech bubbles and tell me Dean don't look like a vilain there.

 

[ShinobuOshino]

@maddery
That phrase was totally said to make her crumble, like the entire speak he told her. To weaken her in order to make her dependent on him. There was no reason why it was him to do that or do it when they were alone. Or scarring her initially and thus throw her in an unfamiliar place when she was at her max. Or that obvious lie that she can control him or that final piece in which he make her lean on him for work.

@Liver
Bottling up emotions is bad, but there are other ways to solve that, making her crumble is probably the worse of them all. Like talking, analyzing the situation, making her have more confidence. Making the emotion express themselves without breaking her. It may be hard, but it doesn't look like the prince is bad with words or doesn't know anything about manipulation.

EDIT: It's true that it was a big hardship, but she showed to be stronger than that. And he actually was the bad guy.
EDIT2: That speech did help her in the short time, but damaged her in the long time. Her memory will be something like I managed to do it because he helped me. Which is a way worse than I managed to do it because I'm strong enough and I have strong people to lean on. It's true that leaning on people is good, but she already does that

 

[Narehate]

So many actual brainlets in this comment section getting upset that Iris isn’t a perfect Mary Sue and is never allowed to be stressed out OMEGALUL

 

[maddery]

@Liver Bottling up your emotions is problematic alright. But his methods are wrong, and so is the author's way to show her weakness. She felt so different from the usual Iris that it made me think that the author is forcing her to break down emotionally just because she is a female. Very over the top. The Iris that I know is stronger than this fake Iris.

 

[maddery]

@thehungryspirit Not when she felt so out-of-character when doing so. Very inconsistent with her portrayal so far.

 

[maddery]

@ShinobuOshino That's precisely why I am angry; he's trying to make her crumble so that she can depend on him. Which is so wrong in many ways.

 

[kenx]

You shouldn't read the spoiler.

Spoiler

All the projection here would make Katniss proud.

 

[Acolytus]

@kenx It seriously feels like the comments from a different manga ended up here by accident.

I can't understand how so many people can get such a simple and cliche moment wrong.

 

[Moodyz]

Ah yes, religion. A protection racket on the simple conscience.

 

[AlmondMagnum]

@ShinobuOshino @maddery
She needed to vent and a good night's sleep. She has a tendency to overwork even when things are going well, so it is in character for a crisis like that to break the camel's back.

And he needed to catch her alone because he's one of the few on her side that's not also one of her subordinates. He works for her, but he's not one of her people like Tanya or Lyle, so she has less of a responsibility to present a strong front.

 

[Desuka]

Oh noes, muh strong independent woman that needs no man showed weakness. It's all the cis white male Dean's fault!

How quickly the comment devolves into.