Sousou no Frieren - Vol. 12 Ch. 117 - Miraculous Illusion

[rizing]

 

[PLaci1982]

WTF, I missed this hint about Rivale.
(I suppose most of us did, as I don't see any discussion about it.)

Spoiler: From r/Frieren

https://www.reddit.com/r/Frieren/comments/185b5nx

Spoiler: Anime episode 12.

 

[SuperOniichan]

Frieren is not canonically confirmed to be aroace -- you're making assumptions based on her lack of romantic and sexual actions and understanding.

I do agree I'm not a fan of the framing in general of the wedding dress though, it feels like it's just here for fanservice.

Assumptions, huh. I've seen people insist that the entire demon race are autistic due to their lack of understanding of human social connections, not to mention Frieren herself.

 

[signingin]

Assumptions, huh. I've seen people insist that the entire demon race are autistic due to their lack of understanding of human social connections, not to mention Frieren herself.

That is a good point. People do tend to make assumptions about characters that are often unfounded. For Frieren, we wouldn't be able to really tell unless the author came out and said it because she frankly doesn't show autistic traits enough. She's high-functioning or borderline at the very most, but again, the author would have to say it outright. It's still fun to joke about, though, and this is coming from an autist.

For the demons, though, I'm pretty sure they're just psychopaths. They are very good at social interaction, they just lack empathy.

 

[SuperOniichan]

That is a good point. People do tend to make assumptions about characters that are often unfounded. For Frieren, we wouldn't be able to really tell unless the author came out and said it because she frankly doesn't show autistic traits enough. She's high-functioning or borderline at the very most, but again, the author would have to say it outright. It's still fun to joke about, though, and this is coming from an autist.

For the demons, though, I'm pretty sure they're just psychopaths. They are very good at social interaction, they just lack empathy.

Can I ask what characters, even unofficially, you consider to be good representations of autistic traits? I've heard that the "non-musical" Bocchi is often interpreted as autistic due to a very unusual lack of understanding of social connections and people's intentions for someone her age.

In the case of demons, I think their manipulative side was shown so well that even many viewers were "fooled" by it. The "why did you say 'mama'" moment is one of my most vivid memories of the title.

 

[undeadclown]

Frieren isn’t ace representation. She’s “didn’t realize they were being hit on until years later” representation, which are entirely different things.

 

[signingin]

Can I ask what characters, even unofficially, you consider to be good representations of autistic traits? I've heard that the "non-musical" Bocchi is often interpreted as autistic due to a very unusual lack of understanding of social connections and people's intentions for someone her age.

In the case of demons, I think their manipulative side was shown so well that even many viewers were "fooled" by it. The "why did you say 'mama'" moment is one of my most vivid memories of the title.

That's a tough question, as I've not seen enough anime/manga, the definition of ASD is unfortunately very vague, and fiction tends to get these things wrong. It also tends to not be the focus of the show (which isn't a bad thing, to be clear). I can't speak for Bocchi, as I haven't watched it yet, but it seems she may have some traits.

Show's where it's not the focus:
Akiyama Yukari from GuP might be a decent example of someone with quite mild traits.
Renge from Non Non Biyori might have some traits.
Isla from Plastic Memories could be considered as having some traits. Be warned that I haven't seen it in long while. Debatable as to whether it's the focus or not.
Kanade from Angel Beats probably has ASD. Also haven't seen it in a long while. Debatable as to whether it's the focus or not.

Shows where it is the focus:
Pet Girl of Sakurasou is good in terms of quality, but Shiina is unrepresentative as she's low-functioning in her social traits and top-level in her intellectual traits. This mismatch is kinda rare, from what I can tell. At least with regards to just being top-level in anything.
I've heard Violet Evergarden is good, but I haven't seen it yet.
And finally, Eliot Ainsworth of Mahoutsukai no Yome. He seems to have at least some traits and basically the whole show is him learning emotion and social interactions with humans through Chise.

I wish I could help you more, but the definition is vague and my memory is fuzzy for these.

 

[SuperOniichan]

That's a tough question, as I've not seen enough anime/manga, the definition of ASD is unfortunately very vague, and fiction tends to get these things wrong. It also tends to not be the focus of the show (which isn't a bad thing, to be clear). I can't speak for Bocchi, as I haven't watched it yet, but it seems she may have some traits.

Show's where it's not the focus:
Akiyama Yukari from GuP might be a decent example of someone with quite mild traits.
Renge from Non Non Biyori might have some traits.
Isla from Plastic Memories could be considered as having some traits. Be warned that I haven't seen it in long while. Debatable as to whether it's the focus or not.
Kanade from Angel Beats probably has ASD. Also haven't seen it in a long while. Debatable as to whether it's the focus or not.

Shows where it is the focus:
Pet Girl of Sakurasou is good in terms of quality, but Shiina is unrepresentative as she's low-functioning in her social traits and top-level in her intellectual traits. This mismatch is kinda rare, from what I can tell. At least with regards to just being top-level in anything.
I've heard Violet Evergarden is good, but I haven't seen it yet.
And finally, Eliot Ainsworth of Mahoutsukai no Yome. He seems to have at least some traits and basically the whole show is him learning emotion and social interactions with humans through Chise.

I wish I could help you more, but the definition is vague and my memory is fuzzy for these.

Officially, the show I mentioned is about social anxiety taken to the point of comic absurdity, but since it's still pretty oddly, a lot of people interpret it that way. Bocchi only had one friend until high school, but even as a comedy about social anxiety, her knowledge of human behavior is minimal. If you're interested, I can also recommend watch "Aharen-san wa Hakarenai", although later arcs have changed the focus from odd rom-com to wholesome yuri comedy. The whole point of the manga and anime is that Aharen acts like an eccentric kuudere, and the MC comes up with completely surreal explanations for it with a straight face. It's like watching a love story between two Leslie Nielsons.

If you want to get to know Violet without getting too caught up in the plot, you can watch the spin-off movie where she temporarily serves as a personal servant to a rich girl at a girls' school. The anime greatly toned down the novel's yuri implications and Violet's reaction to it, so that the on-screen version of their relationship appears more socially confused.

 

[celticmoon]

i cant hold back my tears 😭

 

[signingin]

Officially, the show I mentioned is about social anxiety taken to the point of comic absurdity, but since it's still pretty oddly, a lot of people interpret it that way. Bocchi only had one friend until high school, but even as a comedy about social anxiety, her knowledge of human behavior is minimal. If you're interested, I can also recommend watch "Aharen-san wa Hakarenai", although later arcs have changed the focus from odd rom-com to wholesome yuri comedy. The whole point of the manga and anime is that Aharen acts like an eccentric kuudere, and the MC comes up with completely surreal explanations for it with a straight face. It's like watching a love story between two Leslie Nielsons.

If you want to get to know Violet without getting too caught up in the plot, you can watch the spin-off movie where she temporarily serves as a personal servant to a rich girl at a girls' school. The anime greatly toned down the novel's yuri implications and Violet's reaction to it, so that the on-screen version of their relationship appears more socially confused.

Yeah, I read Aharen-san for a bit. How did it become a yuri? Ain't the MC a dude?
And about Violet, that's kinda unfortunate it toned down the yuri. But, it seems to have kept the quality of the show intact, at least.
Thanks for the info, btw.

 

[SuperOniichan]

Yeah, I read Aharen-san for a bit. How did it become a yuri? Ain't the MC a dude?
And about Violet, that's kinda unfortunate it toned down the yuri. But, it seems to have kept the quality of the show intact, at least.
Thanks for the info, btw.

They created something of a comedic love triangle between the sisters of MC and Aharen, plus a tomboy girl who confessed to the main character's sister in one chapter after the events of the anime. I don't know how it ended, but at least it's being treated as a full-fledged romance subplot rather than the typical CGDCT yuri gags.
It's hard to say what their intentions were, but given how far this girl's thoughts about her sexuality and heteronormativity go in the original story, they probably just wanted to make it more subtle and emotionally intense than outright passionate and erotic.

 

[CyanHide]

< Frieren will be taking a holiday for a few weeks to process this
I didn't expect the dashingly handsome hero Himmel to have been enamored with Frieren since the moment they first met

 

[NullZone]

I hate troons invading everything any claiming to see their mental illnesses being represented. You could literally sit those fuckers in front of a drying paint wall and they'd cry "omg it's literally me and my xyz mental illness representation!!!?"

 

[Valle_reading_manga]

Amazing chapter. Gotta say, Frieren's initial journey to "defeat" the demons is more and more turning into a prologue (naturally) for the real fight against the demons.

 

[Imaterial]

"Frieren will be taking a holiday for a few weeks to process this"
even the author got mental damage to the thing he wrote.

the one write post credit is editor.

 

[Furudehan]

Ha. I always knew he was in love with her. And the way she remembers him so fondly makes me think she also had feelings for him. Shame nothing seemed to have come from it.

 

[AzaitheDazaikinnie]

FRIEREN X HIMMEL
FRIEREN AND HIMMEL ARE GETTING MARRIED IN HIS MIND

 

[HoneyPopper]

my heart 😢💔

 

[LupusVir]

Everyone’s focusing on the illusion, but what about that extra demon who wandered off? She’ll be a problem in the future I bet.

For sure a future arc setup.

 

[chronozzz]

holy fuck