Vinland Saga - Ch. 213 - Thousand Year Voyage Part 22

[sam_jam_ham]

nothing makes me question my mortality more than waiting 4 years to stack chapters and catching up in a day

 

[ShiriIsAWeeb]

I like Thorfinn, but if I'm being honest. The only way to really avoid war and have "peace" between vastly different cultures with no positive history is to have the bigger stick...

 

[DesertStorm]

I like Thorfinn, but if I'm being honest. The only way to really avoid war and have "peace" between vastly different cultures with no positive history is to have the bigger stick...

The modern world hasn't really achieved actual "peace". I doubt there'll ever be peace unless structures that allow the powerful to dominate others are eliminated.

 

[NotSomeone]

Plague rats spotted
Now its just a matter of time until the fleas jump over and infect the Lnu
View attachment 6723

I may be wrong, but don't fleas die in the winter and only their eggs survive to hatch when it's warmer again or some shit like that?

 

[Grimmycoffee]

I like Thorfinn, but if I'm being honest. The only way to really avoid war and have "peace" between vastly different cultures with no positive history is to have the bigger stick...

They did have positive history though, that's the point of sharing bread and drink and also trading back then. Some Americans even see the benefits of farming.
And I think Thorfinn said this too but showing that you have the bigger stick can change the context from "we come in peace" to "we are a threat" whilst causing contempt and envy, I believe that's one of the point of the sword scene.

 

[infernoWRLD]

I like Thorfinn, but if I'm being honest. The only way to really avoid war and have "peace" between vastly different cultures with no positive history is to have the bigger stick...

It blows my mind that people make comments like these. It’s like you guys have completely ignored the entire purpose of the manga. This whole situation literally started BECAUSE of the Nords having the “bigger stick”. If that guy didn’t chop the Lnu’s hand off this wouldn’t have escalated to this level.

 

[Ahab19]

Plague rats spotted
Now its just a matter of time until the fleas jump over and infect the Lnu
View attachment 6723

Good they deserve it.

 

[Rogojinen]

It blows my mind that people make comments like these. It’s like you guys have completely ignored the entire purpose of the manga. This whole situation literally started BECAUSE of the Nords having the “bigger stick”. If that guy didn’t chop the Lnu’s hand off this wouldn’t have escalated to this level.

The sword, begging to be used and to cut, only hastened the confrontation. The bigger stick of the Nords and the inevitable threat was always their solid seafaring culture.

Once the Nords found England, they would come again with numbers on English shores. Once the Nords found Vinland, they would come again with numbers, and not all were bound to be as accomodating as Thorfinn's people.

Instead of 'forbidding' war and assuming there would never be a clash when two different people meet, Thornfinn would have been wiser to prepare for it, and communicate better to recognize its early signs and how to deal with those disturbing the peace with justice and make sure it was as short and bloodless as possible.

He travelled a lot and should have known that the only places that can weather becoming a port open to the world are solid entities, not one little tribe bound to be roughed and eaten up. Trading more and encouraging the Lnu to take on agriculture would have raised their standard of living, add to that openings to nearby tribes to increase their workforce (and deterrent manpower) and it may have built peace on solid basis instead of wishful thinking.

 

[ErikTheRed]

I may be wrong, but don't fleas die in the winter and only their eggs survive to hatch when it's warmer again or some shit like that?

Kinda. A lot of them cant tolerate the cold for long but some stick around. Especially if they live inside houses and natural formations that can keep in heat.

 

[Flareono]

This just makes me feel so sad. The sheer brutality of it is just tragic.

 

[Kobitohime]

It blows my mind that people make comments like these. It’s like you guys have completely ignored the entire purpose of the manga. This whole situation literally started BECAUSE of the Nords having the “bigger stick”. If that guy didn’t chop the Lnu’s hand off this wouldn’t have escalated to this level.

did you forget the plague? and even without that, sooner or later they would clash over land and resources.

peaceful co-existence between any significant group of people has always been maintained by "big stick", you either have the bigger stick, or have a stick big enough that would make attacking you cost more than it worth, if you don't resist, there will always be people who want it all and take all your stuff.

to think otherwise is wishful thinking, idealistic crap that has no basis in reality.

 

[Kushikime]

Thanks for the chapter

 

[infernoWRLD]

did you forget the plague? and even without that, sooner or later they would clash over land and resources.

peaceful co-existence between any significant group of people has always been maintained by "big stick", you either have the bigger stick, or have a stick big enough that would make attacking you cost more than it worth, if you don't resist, there will always be people who want it all and take all your stuff.

to think otherwise is wishful thinking, idealistic crap that has no basis in reality.

The whole purpose of the manga is that violence is purposeless and it advocates for one to become a kinder, gentler person instead of being filled with anger and hate.

If Thorfinn were to arrive with many warriors and weapons, then that would defeat the entire purpose of the story and it would mean that he learned nothing in his journey.

Not to mention that Thorfinn himself literally is a “big stick” himself (considering that he could wipe out the entire village if he wanted to).

This isn’t a historical accurate story based on realism, otherwise we wouldn’t see a guy fighting a yeti or a Native American predicting the atomic bomb. It’s a story about redemption and how one can find strength without being inherently hateful or violent.

Now whether or not this philosophy is effective in real world scenarios is a different story, but to say that Thorfinn should’ve been threatening and violent completely ignores everything this story has been building up. King Canute is more fitting for this than Thorfinn.

 

[poyui]

did you forget the plague? and even without that, sooner or later they would clash over land and resources.

peaceful co-existence between any significant group of people has always been maintained by "big stick", you either have the bigger stick, or have a stick big enough that would make attacking you cost more than it worth, if you don't resist, there will always be people who want it all and take all your stuff.

to think otherwise is wishful thinking, idealistic crap that has no basis in reality.

And beyond what others have said, we are hurling ourselves towards extinction and the only thing the "big stick" is doing for us is making sure we have no escape from it while we keep killing each other. There is no solution to human conflict.

 

[CT-9904]

Holy crap they're totally trapped now
Seeing the rats

 

[Liar]

War. War never changes.

 

[Theozilla]

While the plague/disease would certainly have brought inevitable strife and conflict to some degree, it was certainly not inevitable that it would have had to escalate to this degree of violence and all-out warfare, and stuff like the "bigger stick" mentality is certainly what contributed to said escalation.

Also violent clashes over land and resources are not always inevitable. While history includes plenty of instances of violent conflict due to conflicts over land and resources, it also has just as many instances where cooperation and compromise and diplomacy succeeded. We understandably tend to remember socio-political breakdowns and the instances of violence more in the same way one tends to remember what scarred you more than all the times you avoided disaster.

 

[Swagner]

seems like einar is starting to be more on the war side
maybe einar and thorfinn will end up having a fight considering thorfinns complete anti war beliefs

To quote the director of the movie Starship Troopers:

War makes fascists of us all.

Even the most high-minded people can have their resolve worn down by the hardships of war. It takes an iron will to still strive for peace when you're in the thick of it, because that tribalistic "ingroup good, outgroup bad" mentality is one of humanity's oldest instincts, and nothing dials it up quite like an actual battle or siege.

 

[Swagner]

did you forget the plague?

Has every plague in humanity's history automatically resulted in a war? No. No they have not.

peaceful co-existence between any significant group of people has always been maintained by "big stick",

Once again, the nords brought a "bigger stick" (sword), that was the spark that lit the flames of war in the first place.

 

[ShiriIsAWeeb]

They did have positive history though, that's the point of sharing bread and drink and also trading back then. Some Americans even see the benefits of farming.
And I think Thorfinn said this too but showing that you have the bigger stick can change the context from "we come in peace" to "we are a threat" whilst causing contempt and envy, I believe that's one of the point of the sword scene.

By positive history, I meant like HISTORY history. Not very recent positive history but a long and trusted history of beneficial cooperation.