Risou no Himo Seikatsu - Vol. 19 Ch. 78 - Their own work

[Diagus]

Next Boss

 

[gameforcer]

Weird to see a polish region with it's original name being used (Pomorze - eng. Pomerania) as a port town here but ok.
Edit: nvm I see Złota Wolność too. Well, can't be more on the nose. We are in Poland (or rather, a legally distinct version of it).

 

[RonBWL]

Weird to see a polish region with it's original name being used (Pomorze - eng. Pomerania) as a port town here but ok.
Edit: nvm I see Złota Wolność too. Well, can't be more on the nose. We are in Poland (or rather, a legally distinct version of it).

TBF it's up to readers to interpret what author-san wants "Pomorjie" and "Zwota Wolnoshch" to be. Agsilver did his research, but we still got the name slightly mispelled in C77, so hopefully this version (based on feedback comment) will be what we'll stick to.

 

[Gunlord500]

Thanks very much for the note and translations, Ron. That said, we're in fantasy poland now? Wonder if there are any bobrs about...

 

[NotSomeone]

O . o
Why wouldn't the southern nations develop any firearm advancements in secret? Seems awfully silly to annonce that they have weapons more advanced then them before introducing them to a more accurate weapon with agreater sustained fire and wiping out their new military unit.

They also wouldn't need industrial levels of manufacturing to outfit military units to do so either. They just spent the last few chapters teasing magic tool that can mass produce magic tools.

How much easier do you think it would be to instead have a similar tool pump out rifled barrels and firing mechanisms. Who needs labor intensive manufacturing machine shops when a group of mages can pass around a wand that just poofs firearm parts out by the dozens...

At no time was I interested in why or how the north invented gunpowder and firearms. I was responding to a the comment about how the MC had yet to distribute information on gunpowder and it's practical use a weapon.

And the north is only currently more advanced then the south. The MC has already started to make inroads into technologies that can support the nation's current tech, and now that he has discovered that the north has opened a can of worms, I'm sure he will set a few contingency plans in motion to mitigate the north's new toys.

I've never said anything about developing firearms in secret, in fact that's what I argued the North was doing.
What I argued against is developing a firearm ~300 years more advanced than this world's technological setting.
Magical manufacturing was never discussed in this story, and I doubt it exists because highly skilled craftsmanship is one of the plot points. If there was a school of magic that could just bend material to their will, would Capua spend years of research for artisans to make perfect glass beads?

As for your interest in the North inventing gunpowder and whatnot, I don't really care about your interest. I was using your comment as base to give my overview of the situation as it stands in the story.

 

[Mo0man]

I think what we're forgetting is at the end of the day gunpowder manufacturing isn't an engineering problem, but a chemicals problem. If I had diagrams and understanding, I could theoretically spend time understanding the manufacturing and engineering of things, even if I didn't have the "proper" materials to make it. I could do a clumsier version of the thing, or larger, or whatever. On the other hand, it's very possible that things required for gunpowder, such as saltpeter, simply doesn't exist in this world in large enough quantities to be made easily, or even if it were, it would be difficult for Zenjirou to find since he spends all his time in one palace or another.

Of course, this is just talking about Gunpowder specifically.

 

[VersVlees]

@NotSomeone
@kikix12

Gun powder is dead simple to make from relitively common ingredients.

And it's not like the reaction can't be mimicked in half a dozen ways with magic. So it's something that only becomes relevant if the transmigrator lacks magical ability and needs to fight or if the natives have cooked up gunpowder of their own.

Now that MC has become aware of the issue, he can work to mitigate the excesses of firearms and artillery.

Yeah hence why I also mentioned bringing in stuff like lathes (slightly modified to run on watermills), foot pedal powered sewing machines, documentation on industrial processes (yeah he did bring some but not the heavy hitting stuff, and other modern industrial measurement tools like calipers. Tools you could get at lowe, home depot etc. Even you and I could get our hands on most of this stuff.

Yes they have magic but it is very monopolized in the southern kingdom by Royalty and the Nobility. Even if they can imitate the reaction with magic. It won't do jack shit if only a handful people can use/produce magic tools it especially if it is linked to genetics. Sooner or later the Habsburgs jaws are gonna show up.


🤓 Also, if you really want to impress pre industrial Isekai humans or Terrans from even few hundred years ago. It's not the gunpowder, the industrial machinery, fancy smartphones and other fancy tech. Its over abundance of clothing/textiles/cloth and how much of we produce, own and dispose of it into massive landfills. 🤓

 

[Elzariel]

Have we ever been explained why its "Upsaara" not.. What its clearly meant to be? Uppsala? The author is just ripping real world names from Scandinavia, so why aren't we using the correct forms of them? Apologies if this has been explained somewhere, but it just stings everytime this happens, when the author clearly used real world names, but the translation mysteriously has a weird romanized version of the JP pronounciation..

 

[MagnaDrake]

Besides the risk that firearms could bring, perhaps he thought that magic would be something superior to firearms, and that’s why he didn’t even consider introducing this knowledge into this world. But from his comment, it seems he regretted not having brought it into this world.

Zenjiro of chapter one is an entirely different person from Zenjiro of Capua. He didn't have his kingly foresight baked into him yet.

 

[Miserys_End]

I've never said anything about developing firearms in secret, in fact that's what I argued the North was doing.
What I argued against is developing a firearm ~300 years more advanced than this world's technological setting.

Unless there is outside influence, at most they should only have relitively crude weapons like the bowl style morters/cannons and blunderbuss. Musket style rifles should be rather advanced and a precursor to more modern firearms.

Magical manufacturing was never discussed in this story, and I doubt it exists because highly skilled craftsmanship is one of the plot points.

Then we must be reading different manga. Because the central focus of the Twin Kingdoms has always been about the creations of magical tools and weapons. As for magical manufacturing, the current prince is working on that right now in the story. He is even in the Capua palace, researching on how to produce a magical tool that acts like a copy machine. I believe the example given was a device that could endlessly produced fireball wands.

Now iirc, the inspiration for this magical device was another that was able to produce non-magical items by supplying it the raw materials. So I really see no issue in acquiring a couple of magical replicators that would be capable of printing the parts for a few dozen bolt/lever actions rifles.

And as I mentioned in my previous post, the barrels and other parts wouldn't even need to be metal. As long as they could withstand the pressures involved, it would be just as easy to make them from durable wood or bone.

If there was a school of magic that could just bend material to their will, would Capua spend years of research for artisans to make perfect glass beads?

O . o
Because before the MC arrived glass was almost completely unknown to this world? They had yet to reach the level of technology to produce anything more then low quality foggy lumps of glass and sand.

As for why it took so long to reverse engineer, they only had a vod of a glass making competition to work from. Aura was evem pissed because of the ridiculous temperatures needed to properly melt the silica sand. So yeah it's another case of needing to build the tools to build the build the advanced tools to make the things they want.

But lo and behold, once they could produce sufficiently clear glass, they were able to make prefect spheres with few flaws.

As for your interest in the North inventing gunpowder and whatnot, I don't really care about your interest. I was using your comment as base to give my overview of the situation as it stands in the story.

Wow... you really didn't bother to read my comment before trying to shit all over it did ya...

I said "At no time was I interested in the why or how they created gunpowder and firearms" and rather then an overview your post came off as a poor attempt to explain your assumptions. Most of which came accrossed as incoherent or just flat wrong.

 

[Miserys_End]

Yeah hence why I also mentioned bringing in stuff like lathes (slightly modified to run on watermills), foot pedal powered sewing machines, documentation on industrial processes (yeah he did bring some but not the heavy hitting stuff, and other modern industrial measurement tools like calipers. Tools you could get at lowe, home depot etc. Even you and I could get our hands on most of this stuff.

Honestly most of that is relitively easy to reproduce. Best example I can think runs a youtube channel called Clickspring. Chris has spent the last decade or so hand building clockwork machines, with hand made tools and materials. Also as it's on YouTube, he has documented most of his work in great detail and covers everything from forge work to mechine lathe turning.

Yes they have magic but it is very monopolized in the southern kingdom by Royalty and the Nobility. Even if they can imitate the reaction with magic. It won't do jack shit if only a handful people can use/produce magic tools it especially if it is linked to genetics. Sooner or later the Habsburgs jaws are gonna show up.

Eh, if what the crafting prince said was true, all they would need is quality examples of the parts needed for a rifle, and they had a magical device that could reproduce them by supplying raw materials.

🤓 Also, if you really want to impress pre industrial Isekai humans or Terrans from even few hundred years ago. It's not the gunpowder, the industrial machinery, fancy smartphones and other fancy tech. Its over abundance of clothing/textiles/cloth and how much of we produce, own and dispose of it into massive landfills. 🤓

..... gotta disagree. Oh sure they would be impressed by the quality textiles, but most of the shit in the big box stores in low quality garbage. Anything designed to fall apart after being once or twice would horrify the otherworldly natives by the sheer waste of it all.

 

[RonBWL]

Have we ever been explained why its "Upsaara" not.. What its clearly meant to be? Uppsala? The author is just ripping real world names from Scandinavia, so why aren't we using the correct forms of them? Apologies if this has been explained somewhere, but it just stings everytime this happens, when the author clearly used real world names, but the translation mysteriously has a weird romanized version of the JP pronunciation..

Upssara was just an ancient error from our old scanlation, we've migrated to Uppsala since last year.

 

[chrno_12]

Have we ever been explained why its "Upsaara" not.. What its clearly meant to be? Uppsala? The author is just ripping real world names from Scandinavia, so why aren't we using the correct forms of them? Apologies if this has been explained somewhere, but it just stings everytime this happens, when the author clearly used real world names, but the translation mysteriously has a weird romanized version of the JP pronounciation..

The Japanese use katakana to write foreign names. The problem with katakana is that all the characters are syllables, not letters as in the Latin alphabet. So, there are foreign names that the Japanese write in katakana which are simply impossible to translate unless the manga or LN author romanizes them. In these cases, there’s not much translators can do other than try to guess what the author intended to write.

 

[Vengeance22]

Uhmm Margaret? Isn't Margaret Lucrezia's elder sister? You know the married elder sister? Or am I mixing her up with someone?

 

[BlackAeronaut]

Yes and no. While i do agree with most of what you said, i dont really think they need to industrialize for firearms to reach modern standards.

True if you need or want the common man to be part of your production line, precision tooling and the craftsmen to run them is a must. But you can just get a metal aspected mage to form your parts as if it was putty, much of that work flow becomes redundant. All you need is a few forms, jigs and a mage capable of molding metal, or other durable materials like stone, bone, or wood. After all we only use steel because it offers the greatest durability to weight and cost.

Fair point - I didn't have my thinking hat strapped down quite tight enough. A good sized work shop would be able to meet their needs early on.

Though I'm not so sure about the magic thing. If their magic could do this, then marbles should be a cinch for them. Instead, they're having issues with kilns being ruined on first- or second-runs during the manufacturing process because they don't even have proper fire bricks yet.

Zenjirou really should have downloaded the Wikipedia database before going to their world. It's a lot smaller than most people think, and while it doesn't have exact procedures, it does provide enough details to get the ball rolling in a timely fashion.

 

[BlackAeronaut]

Zenjirou is not a warmonger, in fact, most people are not. Let's say you bring gunpowder into this world and you see your creation being used to slaughter thousands, how would that make you feel?

No, he's not a warmonger, and I never said that about him. But you don't need to be a warmonger to take into consideration how your newly adopted homeland is going to protect itself. Also, keep in mind the preceding events that caused that Aura became their Queen in the first place. It was the aftermath of their bloodiest war in history, and Aura was the absolute last of her line from all the others getting unalived in that war.

That said?

In this chapter, we've come across a mercenary on different continent who has the odor of gunpowder lingering around him. This means they have muskets at the very least already. And if they have muskets in the hands of mercenaries, then that means they are not shy about using them!

That, right there all on its own, creates a moral imperative: that no matter how you might feel about warfare, the much greater wrong would be to withhold the knowledge that would give your people an edge. Because for however many lives of soldiers may perish? You can easily multiply that by 10-fold for the number of commoners lives lost should they be conquered.

And that's to say nothing about people taken as slaves.

Also, you wouldn't cook lever actions in secret, those require way more industrial capabilities than any kingdom so far has shown.

Firearms have existed since 10th century in China. In the 14th and 15th centuries, small portable cannons were common, they didn't have rifling. In fact, rifling is a relatively recent development in the history of firearms.

Yeah, Miserys_End got me there with that one with regards to production and technology. You honestly don't need much. If you already have steel, then you already have sufficient technology to get started.

And yes, rifling is kinda late to the party. But it is the easiest and most simple to implement upgrade to muskets. During the American Civil War they began to implement rifling in muskets, and things went from there.

And I'm not envisioning numbers in the thousands. Hell, if you can make lever-action rifles (even if they're only the single shot breach loaders), then that provides such an edge that a couple of platoons will be all you need. Because in terms of combat? Reloading a musket takes forever.

So that would mean Capua shouldn't need a whole lot. Just a couple of hundred. And that can be easily accomplished in a matter of months with a single workshop of about ten or twenty craftsmen and metal smiths.

 

[Miserys_End]

Fair point - I didn't have my thinking hat strapped down quite tight enough. A good sized work shop would be able to meet their needs early on.

Dead simple, and they wouldn't even require steel for parts if they had equally durable alternatives. Even the alchemical requirements for gunpowder are easily within their reach.

Though I'm not so sure about the magic thing. If their magic could do this, then marbles should be a cinch for them. Instead, they're having issues with kilns being ruined on first- or second-runs during the manufacturing process because they don't even have proper fire bricks yet.

Not really true. Before Jirou arrived they didn't have the capability to properly prepare the clear glass to use in the formation of glass spheres. At best it was cloudy with many inclusions. Now however they have a vested intrest in keeping production secret. So iterations will move slightly slower. The Twin Kingdom would be less likely to part with their programmable item printers, unless they were considerably incentives.

Zenjirou really should have downloaded the Wikipedia database before going to their world. It's a lot smaller than most people think, and while it doesn't have exact procedures, it does provide enough details to get the ball rolling in a timely fashion.

NGL the MC has a laptop, console game system, and DVD library. He has already pulled a DVD of a glass making competition out of his ass, so I get the feeling the author/mangaka will do the same for similar innovations he wants to unleash on this world. And with the ubiquity of firearms and automobiles in Hollywood media, I doubt Aura even needs much input from Jirou to start advancing their tech base to scary levels.

 

[Miserys_End]

Yeah, Miserys_End got me there with that one with regards to production and technology. You honestly don't need much. If you already have steel, then you already have sufficient technology to get started.

You dont even need steel. In a fantasy world where dragons have scales and bones harder the steel, you could cut a barrel from any straight bone of sufficient length. All that matter is the materials are capable of enduring the chamber pressure.

And yes, rifling is kinda late to the party. But it is the easiest and most simple to implement upgrade to muskets. During the American Civil War they began to implement rifling in muskets, and things went from there.

True rifling would be preferably, but honestly think a better use of their development time would be to figure out a simple breach loading mechanism and case ammunition. This would remove much of failure points of blackpowder weaponry.

And I'm not envisioning numbers in the thousands. Hell, if you can make lever-action rifles (even if they're only the single shot breach loaders), then that provides such an edge that a couple of platoons will be all you need. Because in terms of combat? Reloading a musket takes forever.

So that would mean Capua shouldn't need a whole lot. Just a couple of hundred. And that can be easily accomplished in a matter of months with a single workshop of about ten or twenty craftsmen and metal smiths.

NGL, if they had the appropriate video documentary resources, they could be churning out barrels with their current blacksmithing techniques with little difficulty. True it would only be in the single digits per work shift, and require about a week to build the tooling. But they could easily produce a few hundred hand smithed berrels in a month.

 

[BlackAeronaut]

That's a very bold assertion, considering we only have one data point to draw from. Technology isn't a straight line, even assuming gunpowder surfaces, like in China, there's every possibility that something resembling a personal firearm would not, especially due to the existence of magic. It's a question of circumstance.

But it already has surfaced. In this very chapter, even. Zenjirou smelled it on that mercenary. And he is rightfully concerned about it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if, after confirming some details with Freya, he'll immediately teleport back to Capua to warn Aura about it. Because smelling gunpowder on a mercenary can have one and only interpretation: they have fire arms.

This isn't the reason muskets were adapted in armies. While early firearms could penetrate heavy armor under the right circumstances, it was nowhere near guaranteed and they suffered from a number of drawbacks. The obvious one in reloading time, the second is laughable acurracy compared to other projectile weapons. A trained archer could shoot much faster and with incomparably better range. The issue was that training a decent archer took years, while making a bunch of yokels issue effective fire in the enemy's general direction when they're close, could be done in a few weeks, mainly to teach them how to do it in formation.

Yes, all fine points and all. Which is why I feel that Zenjirou should get ahead of themse by helping his people make lever-action rifles using cartridges instead of muzzle loading muskets.

Wait, you think Puyol is the guy to safeguard military technology and only use it as a last resort? The man so insanely power hungry, that his monarch loses sleep over what he'll cook up whenever out of her sight? The guy everyone had to team up to keep from fucking up relations with a foreign power at his own wedding, just because there was opportunity to? That Puyol?

You have completely misread his character.

That almost-an-arm-wrestling-match he had at his own wedding? His wife only had to say a few polite and demure words, and that was all it took to defuse the situation. In a patriarchal society like Capua's, he could have politely told her to mind her own business, but he didn't.

(Besides, that was the guy that gave Puyol those scars on his face. Some friction - both literal and metaphorical - is to be expected here.)

But if that's not enough for you, then here's an excellent litmus test.

If Puyol really is that ruthlessly power-hungry, then why is Zenjirou still alive?

Keep in mind that his angle beforehand was to marry Aura and become the King of Capua. And if he really was that ruthless and gung-ho? He'd have had Zenjirou assassinated so he could pursue that route once more. There has been plenty of opportunities for Puyol to arrange for a "terrible tragedy" to befall Zenjirou, and he has the charisma to gain followers loyal enough to take the secrets to the grave with them.

Yes, Aura does worry about him and his ambitions. But that is only insofar as political machinations go. How do we know for sure?

I don't recall exactly where it was, but it was sometime shortly after Puyol's wedding. Puyol had just pulled some stunt that was out of character for him - something that made Aura think that, yeah, he's smart, but he's not supposed to be that smart! But then, she realizes what the hell just happened. She then immediately demanded that a report about every possible thing they can learn about Lucinda, Puyol's new wife, be made as soon as humanly possible.

See, that's the other thing. Lucinda genuinely fell in love with Puyol. She is someone who is generous and loving enough to warn her younger brother that after the wedding, she will be Puyol's family, not his. And as such, she will be dancing to Puyol's tune. Thus, in the future she may not have his best interests in mind.

For someone like that to willingly go with Puyol? That tells me that even if he is ambitious, he's not out to cause needless bloodshed, and that he probably is a good, down-to-earth kind of man. And a man like that with a militaristic mindset? He's out to protect his country, and he feels that the best way to do that is to have a strong army to deter others from thinking they're easy pickings.

Puyol is a consummate tactician. He'd know the value in keeping something like a modern rifle a secret that as few people know about as possible. And he'd know the value in keeping that sort of thing in reserve until it is actually needed. In fact, to minimize the number of people who'd know about it, he'd probably go so far as to not have his men be trained to use them. At least, not until he and Aura see a crisis on the horizon where they feel the rifles would be needed.

Although that time might be just around the corner.

 

[finalm]

But it already has surfaced. In this very chapter, even. Zenjirou smelled it on that mercenary. And he is rightfully concerned about it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if, after confirming some details with Freya, he'll immediately teleport back to Capua to warn Aura about it. Because smelling gunpowder on a mercenary can have one and only interpretation: they have fire arms.

I was refering to you assertion that firearms would always inevitably be invented, not whether they already have been in this story. Yeah, it seems they exist here, unless the guy works with cannons or something.

Yes, all fine points and all. Which is why I feel that Zenjirou should get ahead of themse by helping his people make lever-action rifles using cartridges instead of muzzle loading muskets.

Then you're basically asking that he reinvent smokeless gun powder. Also, metallurgy to make the gun frames withstand the pressures involved. That's a tall order, there's a reason it happened during the industrial revolution IRL. It requires massive technological leaps compared to what they have here. Even if he thought to bring all the required knowledge with him (doubtful, remember the trouble they're still having with producing glass?), this would be a project that would most likely outlive him.

You have completely misread his character.

That almost-an-arm-wrestling-match he had at his own wedding? His wife only had to say a few polite and demure words, and that was all it took to defuse the situation. In a patriarchal society like Capua's, he could have politely told her to mind her own business, but he didn't.

That's exactly my point. The woman is known far and wide as a brilliant negotiator and tough cookie, this is exactly why the kingdom supported this marriage so much, since they expected her to temper him at least somewhat. Without her, things would have gone south quickly, so how exactly is this misreading his character? Also, it is a patriarchal society, that's why the notion of a queen with a king consort caused such tensions to begin with. Tensions that Puyol attempted to take advantage of to put himself on the throne.

If Puyol really is that ruthlessly power-hungry, then why is Zenjirou still alive?

Keep in mind that his angle beforehand was to marry Aura and become the King of Capua. And if he really was that ruthless and gung-ho? He'd have had Zenjirou assassinated so he could pursue that route once more. There has been plenty of opportunities for Puyol to arrange for a "terrible tragedy" to befall Zenjirou, and he has the charisma to gain followers loyal enough to take the secrets to the grave with them.

The kingdom has just been through a ruinous civil war, everyone agrees it would not survive another, which would be sure to happen were he to do that. I said he was power hungry, not incompetent to a comedic extent. It would just end up in whomever remained standing to be invaded by an oppurtunistic neighbour.

I don't recall exactly where it was, but it was sometime shortly after Puyol's wedding. Puyol had just pulled some stunt that was out of character for him - something that made Aura think that, yeah, he's smart, but he's not supposed to be that smart! But then, she realizes what the hell just happened. She then immediately demanded that a report about every possible thing they can learn about Lucinda, Puyol's new wife, be made as soon as humanly possible.

No one ever claimed he's not smart. On the contrary, they're weary of him because he is, on top of being popular with the military and good at what he does. That does not invalidate what I said.

See, that's the other thing. Lucinda genuinely fell in love with Puyol. She is someone who is generous and loving enough to warn her younger brother that after the wedding, she will be Puyol's family, not his. And as such, she will be dancing to Puyol's tune. Thus, in the future she may not have his best interests in mind.

For someone like that to willingly go with Puyol? That tells me that even if he is ambitious, he's not out to cause needless bloodshed, and that he probably is a good, down-to-earth kind of man. And a man like that with a militaristic mindset? He's out to protect his country, and he feels that the best way to do that is to have a strong army to deter others from thinking they're easy pickings.

I don't recall this "falling in love" being established anywhere. As far as we know it's just a shrewd political marriage. As for the wife's attitude towards her brother - this was expected of a noblewoman marrying into a nobleman's family IRL. You know, because of the patriarchal society. There's no reason to read anything more into it.

As for the rest of that paragraph, sorry but it's irrelevant. It does not matter what he believes is best for his country, the key point discussed here is that he's firmly of the opinion that it involves him calling the shots and is taking steps to make that happen.

Puyol is a consummate tactician. He'd know the value in keeping something like a modern rifle a secret that as few people know about as possible. And he'd know the value in keeping that sort of thing in reserve until it is actually needed. In fact, to minimize the number of people who'd know about it, he'd probably go so far as to not have his men be trained to use them. At least, not until he and Aura see a crisis on the horizon where they feel the rifles would be needed.

Although that time might be just around the corner.

The problem with this is that given his behaviour so far, "that time" would be whenever he feels brings the most progress to his goal, not some sort of life and death situation to the country. Unless of course the latter comes first chronologically, but that's besides the point. As I said, he's playing along (kind of) because the alternative means the end for the country, at least for now, but he has no real loyalty to either the MC nor his wife, since he's shown himself willing to subvert them at pretty much every occasion. Said MC would therefore be insane to empower him to the point, that the forces loyal to him might be able to orchestrate a coup with enough force and intimidation, that he gets his way.