Kaifuku Jutsushi no Yarinaoshi - Vol. 3 Ch. 13.2

[Kaarme]

@FlashGordan Where the hell did I ever say: "Brain washing is mostly fine as long as they seem okay with it afterwards"? I would appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth. What I said is that he treats the women more or less decently and not like abused slaves, unlike the captain who loved to visit the MC to beat him, back when the MC was a prisoner. He could have brainwashed them and then abused them, like the captain would have done. Instead he brainwashed them, but after that he's not causing them needless suffering. Instead, like I said, the women are living somewhat happy with their new personalities, not in constant fear and pain.

Revenge is something you do as a response to a wrong you experienced. The captain is just continuing to do what he was already doing before the MC could do anything in return. Sure, you could say it's revenge, but you could also say it's not. You really should also reread the beginning of this story if you think they haven't done anything to him in this timeline. He went through a lot of the same shit he experienced the first time through. Kureha's case is somewhat different, but nevertheless Kureha as well benefitted from the MC's suffering, getting her arm back. She swore to return the favour, but was very quick to forget that promise when she heard the fabricated tales of the MC's betrayal. Above all, she was an enemy by allying herself with the MC's enemies and then attacking the MC. She would have deserved death, but was allowed to live, even if not entirely as her old prejudiced self.

 

[degenerateafro]

Next 'logical' step for MC considering the 'plot' so far. Make the guard look like Anna and drill him for a few days. Then leave him as a sex slave someplace.

 

[Yamibi]

Guys, You know you can't put reason to what an insane person does?
Humans are not really good with reasons anyway (look: believing in higher powers, internet communities... - you can't find reasoning in there) ;-)

 

[Umetsu]

@firosahoge thanks!

 

[firosahoge]

I dont think the manga mentioned this, but even though Anna was his first love, she was married long ago to someone else. Currently hes on the run, so there was no way to save his village in time. Basically, as soon as he found out they didnt execute the guard captain with hia appearance, it was already too late.

 

[FlashGordan]

@kaarme I was paraphrasing (perhaps rather unfairly) but I don't cede the point that it isn't somehow better to violate someone's free will and reprogram someone's mind to be happy when you violate their body than it is to beat them. Taking someone unwilling and forcing them to become willing is morally the same as acting on the unwilling person whether that's achieved through drugs, mental conditioning, or magic (all three in Kureha's case). Popping a roofie in someone's drink so they won't say "No." may be less violent than forceful assault but rape is still rape. If the captain changed someone's mind to be happy when they were beaten how would that somehow be different because they were happy? Just because MC satisfies his sadism in a different form doesn't make it less sadistic or more moral. He didn't have to rape Freya he chose to. He could've bent her mind to be a loyal vassal, or a lifelong friend, but he made her a willing sex slave instead. Now he's already destroyed the personality that hurt him but he's still using the innocent one he conditioned. At least the girl the captain assaulted had the free will left to kill herself rather than endure. The happiness of the girls *potentially* makes it a better situation for them but that doesn't make the actions or intent of the MC morally superior or distinct to those of the captain. MC could care less if Freya/Kureha (maybe even Setsuna as he still refers to her as property) are happy or not they're just his tools.

As for him pursuing revenge for wrongs that haven't yet been done to him. He still has not ever even met the cannon or sword hero in this timeline but they're the first targets he talks about after he escapes. (His dream was a flashback to the other timeline after he left the castle)

When Kureha attacked the MC she didn't even know who he really was until he revealed it to her after the battle. Who would she reasonably believe, a random drifter using a sword style he shouldn't even know unless he stole it or the military reports of the kingdom she's loyally served her whole life? Furthermore why would she still feel she should repay the MC when it seems like he killed her princess and best friend? She seemed more than willing to follow Freya if not him when she saw Freya was alive and with Freya already as his slave it's essentially the same. There was no reason for him to sleep with kureha at all or probably even hypnotize her. He could have just let the aphrodisiac wear off. Afterwards he even says "It sounds interesting to...change her to fit my tastes". IMO He just did it because he wanted to not because there was any certain need and he doesn't plan on stopping at what he's already done.

Sparing someone's life in combat just because it's potentially advantageous for you then committing war crimes on them isn't really an improvement. As the village girl showed sometimes people would rather be dead. If Kureha had been aware of the full scope of the princess's actions and the MC's plans and actions instead of being misled and then chemically and magically manipulated perhaps she would be in the latter camp.

Either way this got lengthy so I think i'll leave it here. I don't see any real distinction between the two characters but clearly you do. At least we would probably both agree that they're both not great people it's just their individual degree of badness we seem to have an issue with. I had some fun with the brief moral debate (and enjoyed having to challenge my own position internally quite often) and I do apologize for being somewhat uncharitable in characterizing your argument. I was a little tipsy at the time and tired after work but it's not really an excuse. I didn't mean to make an argument in bad faith. I'll happily let you have last word here if you care to reply.

 

[Kaarme]

@FlashGordan You started your comment with a view that suggested you didn't want to evaluate the MC of this story as an evil person. This story has no heroes in the first place, only villains and anti-heroes. When I wrote my comments, I was judging the MC with the basic understanding he's also wicked, so it was only a question of who's more evil: he or the captain (and the princess). In my opinion it's clearly the captain and the whole evil kingdom he represents. I also don't subscribe to the notion that dying is better than getting raped, let alone getting raped while believing you even aren't getting raped and thus can enjoy it (since it's not been brutal sex after the first act upon the princess before the mindwipe). If you die, it's all over. If you live, you can seek justice/revenge or otherwise continue with your life. It's not like all the myriad raped women and men in RL would have been totally ruined the rest of their lives. They do carry psychological scars, but many got over it the best they could and lived more or less normal lives afterwards. Anna's case doesn't apply here because she obviously understood she would be raped and then killed, so there was no salvation remaining whatsoever.

The MC did what he did with Kureha also for the reason it was his best method to totally convert Kureha. Her mind wasn't even totally erased, the MC merely made her artificially love him so much she wouldn't want to betray him easily. We don't really know if he has effective alternative methods, not that he would bother to ponder such things anyway.

But since you ended your comment affirming you did, in fact, admit the MC is also evil and thus his actions shouldn't be compared to morally sound protagonists, it's okay.

 

[sphinxs]

Hmmmmmmmm, cool (? at leat the cover it's awesome)

 

[SSS26032002]

Yup.... it's gettin rushed... the pacing is getting faster... but I'll still read on...

 

[AbuHajaar]

I'm going to refer to this manga as Healercuck from now on LMFAO

 

[Solipsist]

Warning: Cringe overflow.

 

[captain_crunch]

Mangs, everyone who commented in earlier chapters about how he was leaving witnsses alive during his escape was right.

 

[Cleesus]

Mc is an idiot for not seeing that coming.

 

[Azure_1802]

Cry cry my arse, it's your fault for letting that scumbag alive.

 

[mangafreak]

Let the party Start, here comes the cracked healer

 

[Black_Reaper]

What a edgy dumpster fire this manga is. Wew!

 

[Ekfreet]

LMAO

 

[SCP-049]

Woah, 99 comments this chapter?
Arguments?

 

[silentshot]

Lol.

@Darkomantis

It's pointless arguing with genuinely uninteresting people who want their MC to be Jesus mixed with Light Yagami mixed with a Super Saiyan. They are the worst in some cases than even genuine trolls.

...sigh.

 

[JL96]

Dipshit mc brought it on himself