Madougushi Dahliya wa Utsumukanai ~Kyou Kara Jiyuu na Shokunin Life~ - Vol. 1 Ch. 3

[Rayster]

@bramhistory ,

I get where you're from because most relationship failures are complicated and usually caused by both parties due to differences in personalities, values, lifestyles etc. Generally speaking, in most cases, there's no right or wrong, it's just incompatibility and so both parties could have just parted away and moved on. However, in regards to this manga, specifically the situation the Dahlia and Tobias are in, the point you made about how Dahlia being partially responsible for the marriage failure is just not convincing to me (and maybe some other readers). I could write a long non-standard-formatted essay with counter-arguments but it's kinda pointless and tiring to do so for a fictional relationship. In short, it's just unfair to say Dahlia is responsible too because: On one hand, Dahlia was committed to the relationship, had put in efforts and made adjustments just to impress and satisfy Tobias's demands (made out of his own insecurities and jealousy) and never crossed the line before, during, or after the relationship. On the other hand, Tobias was the one who crossed the line by cheating during their relationship, shamelessly demanded loan from Dahlia (and everything about that incident in that chapter), on top of threatening her after he was found out about the contract incident, and he didn't even feel guilty about all of it. She is not even close to being perfect/saint/mary-sue, having her own insecurities, flaws and struggles as shown in the series, but she sticks to proper values and principles and never did anything that knowingly would ruin the relationship (either through common sense or not). Imagine yourself or anyone you hold dear is said to be partially responsible for the breakup/marriage failure if you're/they're in a similar situation as Dahlia, even if you/they didn't do anything that would ruin the relationship which the other party did. It's unfair and ridiculous because it's like saying people cheat because their partner couldn't satisfy them enough in a supposedly exclusive and committed relationship.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your point of view too, which I'd definitely support if it's a more vague and complicated relationship situation where no party has crossed the line. Peace.

 

[Rayster]

@mmonstra ,

EXACTLY! You managed to say what I think in a clearer and shorter way lol. Like sure we knew it's a loveless relationship but still none of that makes it okay for Tobias to deceive, manipulate, demand, cheat, and threaten Dahliya, and then shamelessly act like he's forgetful or ignorant. His "side" does not make it okay for any of those decisions! Like, I can still accept it if the dads are blamed for partially responsible because the marriage was arranged by them without putting much concern on compatibility and chemistry/connections but I just cannot accept and honestly was surprised to see Dahliya being blamed in this situation because it's already kind of victim-blaming.

 

[Wizardrone]

if he keeps the patent then he is a villian that will get burned not nicely but if he gives up probably the noble lady may want a divorce since there is a chance she only married him for being "him" a talented craftsman.

 

[Quirriff]

Cheating might be forgivable (but not without shame) but everything else makes him total trash.
Annulling their engagement just after she's moved in and the day before their marriage I didn't think he could get any worse, but he did.

I hope his brother fires him and his new bride to be's father finds out about his horrid reputation (and considers him a marriage scammer which he might as well be) and he gets in deep shit.

 

[bramhistory]

@Rayster
Thanks, I'd like to accept your pov if only Dahlia entering relationship because she likes him enough for that but she's not.
I always dislike people who enter a relationship thinking they may like the person after they got married, sure in some cases it works but it's not rare for that relationship to broken either. This is where Dahlia repeat her past life mistakes, despite trying to do differently in this another world yet she still ordered around by other people and have no say on it, suppressing her own emotions and likes. Dahlia admit it herself that's why after the whole incident she tried to change and do what she likes now for herself, this is much more evident in another version of this manga.

That is her "mistake" that I try to explain and I believe that's what the author trying to convey, she's not a mary sue character indeed BUT many readers trying to make her so and only put the blame on Tobias. I mean what the heck, Dahlia already admit it on the story that she did repeat her past mistakes but nooooo Tobias is the evil villain and Dahlia is innocent pure angel.
I feel sad that the big awesome major character development like Dahlia is shadowed because we loves to curse Tobias instead, can we praise the girl who strongly move forward to her own future instead? But I guess many people likes Tobias to talk about him all the way lol.

 

[Kryspy_Kreme]

Communication and letting yourself be seen at your weakest and strongest are the keys to relationships, and they both obviously lacked that. Never ever get married until you both know how to talk to and rely on each other.

 

[Rayster]

@bramhistory ,
Now I see where your point is coming from. I believe there're some misinterpretation of the story. Let's break down one by one.

if only Dahlia entering relationship because she likes him enough for that but she's not

Dahlia liking him enough or not before entering the relationship is irrelevant to whether the relationship reason of breaking up (which is Tobias "found his true love"). Both parties entered the relationship fully aware that it wasn't motivated by romance in the first place. Dahlia was fully and willingly committed, Tobias was not and cheated on her. If Tobias was not willing to commit to the relationship fully, he might as well bring it up earlier (especially since he's aware of his inferiority complex, and also he's in it for the successor status to Dahlia's dad in the first place, chp3pg28). This means that even if Dahlia loved him to death and did everything perfectly and as "innocent pure angel"-ly (as you mentioned), Tobias motivated by his insecurities/jealousy/greed would still cheat on her and dump her as if she's nothing. In a middle-age European-inspired society, most people including commoners (even in real history) don't marry for love and females have little say in whom they get to marry. With that said, a loveless diplomatically/politically motivated arranged marriage could work as long as both parties agreed to be in it and uphold it. At the time in the past when newly introduced to her, Tobias was perceived as a decent person, and may it be loveless marriage, they could manage to maintain it steadily and boringly in a fully committed manner as long as both parties were willing to.

I always dislike people who enter a relationship thinking they may like the person after they got married, sure in some cases it works but it's not rare for that relationship to broken either.

I don't support a loveless relationship either and am personally a romantic, but FYI, in many cases, it's very much socio-culturally influenced. It's still common to this day especially in many parts of Asia like China and India, and particularly common in elders' generation. Marriage, changes of its meaning and purposes, divorce rate then and now, etc are a whole different topic, feel free to check them out if you're interested. What I wanna say is, saying you "dislike" these people is kinda a strong feeling and may upset some people IRL, but you do you, just be more mindful about that if you're interacting with elderly/middle-aged Asians.

This is where Dahlia repeat her past life mistakes, despite trying to do differently in this another world yet she still ordered around by other people and have no say on it, suppressing her own emotions and likes. Dahlia admit it herself that's why after the whole incident she tried to change and do what she likes now for herself, this is much more evident in another version of this manga.

That is her "mistake" that I try to explain and I believe that's what the author trying to convey, she's not a mary sue character indeed BUT many readers trying to make her so and only put the blame on Tobias. I mean what the heck, Dahlia already admit it on the story that she did repeat her past mistakes but nooooo Tobias is the evil villain and Dahlia is innocent pure angel.

This part is the main misinterpretation I believe.
Her "Mistakes/Past mistakes" have nothing to do with relationship/partnership/marriage. Her "Mistakes/Past mistakes" were that she prioritized other people's demands and not her own happiness and freedom. It's "Mistakes" to her ownself, her well-being and her happiness that she could have independently. It's "Mistakes/Past Mistakes" she did to herself, not to her father, not to Tobias, not to Tobias's father, not to the relationship. Even without the "Mistakes/Past Mistakes", Tobias would still cheat on her and dump her. The "Mistakes/Past mistakes" were not about what she did/didn't do for and in the relationship, nor what she did/didn't do for and to Tobias. Regardless of whether the relationship was doomed or not (which is a moot point, only because we already know the ending of their relationship from the story at this point), the breakup was entirely caused by Tobias's infidelity and lack of commitment. Idk who said "Tobias is the evil villain and Dahlia is innocent pure angel" that you read since I don't read all comments in detail, but not shifting blame onto Dahlia doesn't infer that she's innocent/pure/angel-like, and wanting Tobias to be fully held accountable and responsible doesn't infer that he's evil/villainous. Nothing they did for/in the relationship was evil or virtuous in the first place, but Tobias did do Dahlia wrong through several actions taken (shamelessly and without feeling guilty even). Not enough to be taken as evil/villainous, but sufficient for him to be taken as a horrible person; Not making the past mistakes wouldn't make her an innocent/pure/angel-like person, but she actually did nothing that would cause the relationship to fail. You might mean to say that her "Mistakes/Past mistakes" made by prioritizing other people, not standing firm to her own desires and changed her looks on Tobias's demands etc were partially the cause of the breakup, but that's really irrelevant to the relationship as it's already revealed that Tobias wouldn't be satisfied no matter how and whether those "Mistakes/Past mistakes" were made or not, he would still initiate the breakup because of his own inner issues and lack of commitment. You might say she shouldn't get into a loveless relationship with Tobias in the first place, but it's a moot point because at the time Tobias was seen as a dependable reliable decent person introduced by her dad's trustable close friend, and not all relationship starts with love at first sight (love at first sight doesn't even occur in many successful relationships, and in so many romantic stories the main characters even started as rivals or enemies), so who would have known at the time if the relationship would have worked or not from their point of view (exclude Tobias because he was in it for the successor status).

Anyway, you do you if you disagree, I'm done with this chapter and wanna move on. Thanks for your time reading such a lengthy comment.

 

[bramhistory]

@Rayster
I'm not going to argue whether he will cheat on her or not after their marriage since it's not what covered by the story though I do agree he have that possibility.
I'm an asian myself and living in that area where such marriage is common and I do speak out loud about it, since the case of failed marriage that born without love is affecting people close to me. Worry not, I'm okay and the eldery asian won't do any drastic things.

I personally think it's a domino effect, if she indeed like him enough to get into relationship I think she will be a lot devastated about the broken engagement. Because I observe Dahlia isn't that hurt so I conclude that her acceptance to the proposal is mainly because it's her dad decide so, if you read the other manga version her dad said "he's your fiance" not "do you want to engage with him?", her first reaction to her dad statement is "dad are you drunk?" which is seal my opinion that she did not like him enough for such things but she most likely don't want to reject her dad and also think it may a good deal down the way. Also I strongly think this is a mistake of her part since she have a memories of adult woman in a modern society, it's very unlikely she didn't know how loveless marriage turns out but still going ahead anyway. I won't say this if she's genuinely middle age woman or living in such society.

That's why even though it was Tobias who ultimately bring this disaster but her reluctance to speak her mind and choose what she likes is like a start of domino effect that though small but made a portion of how things happen this way. And since lots of comments is eager to kill Tobias so I want to point that and turn the focus into Dahlia's character development instead, which I believe is what this manga trying to tell.

But it's alright if you disagree, we have our own view on this matter, let's moving on.

 

[Minxxerias]

Sincerely excited to see them reunite and for her ex to get what he deserves ...

 

[OiGimmeMoreManga]

HE IS A GOD DAMN FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT MOTHERFUCKER GOD DAMN FUCKING ORLANDO

 

[Solistia]

@Rayster I do disagree with you to a point, Dahliya was also responsible for their poor relationship. Tobias is completely in the wrong of course and he did super scummy things, and he is definitely most at fault (by a long shot), BUT both of them sucked at communication, which you really need for a relationship to work out. She would always be there for Tobias to rely on but never let herself rely on Tobias, which only added to his insecurities because it seemed like Dahliya never trusted him. She never once opened up to him until this chapter about how she really felt, not even when he was annulling their engagement, she swallowed it all down so as not to butt heads, which is one of the things she hated about herself in her previous life which she thought she was passed, but it's apparently harder for humans to change than we think, old habits die hard and such.

tl;dr people aren't saying it's Dahliya fault that the relationship was bad, nor are they excusing Tobias' actions and behavior because everything he did was completely uncalled for and awful, BUT she did have a hand in their poor relationship with each other.

 

[Sparrow75]

While dahliya was also at fault for what happened, Especiallys since a relationship is based on the foundation of communication. But Tobias was definitely the worst of the two. Dahlyia was a responsible girl, she was too responsible, and not reliant enough but not only was Tobias irresponsible, he was incredibly selfish in wanting things to be a certain way without putting in the effort. He’s complaining about this and that in his own head, yet never saying it out loud.

Dahlylia is similar in this regard which is why their relationship ended, but the difference is that dahlyia didn’t say it cause she thought it was was best way to continue their relationship and she still tried to uphold her position. On the other hand Tobias kept demanding things, and wanting thing to be the way he wants it to without properly thinking it through or trying to change things.

He demanded sacrifices knowing they was meaningless. Annoyed at both himself and dahlyia he took it out on a girl that didn’t really do anything wrong.

They both had their faults for taking their relationship lightly and not thinking it through, dahlyia had her faults but Tobias was plain wrong.

 

[esp]

I kinda get people's complaints about her not trying to make the relationship work, even though she didn't think it was anything but business in the first place. I don't think she actually had a choice in the marriage til her father died, though. She seemed resigned to it being someone she didn't dislike at least. The theme of both stories is essentially that if she had only done what she wanted to do, they never would've gotten engaged,

 

[tuatara1]

What a repugnant, self-absorbed little shit. He truly is King Jackass.

Also, Dahliya did not do a damned thing wrong. Trying to say she was "too responsible" is just about the most absurd criticism possible. It highlights quite succinctly how women can just never win in these situations. Everything has to be a balancing act of meeting people's expectations for both resilience and vulnerability. It's beyond ridiculous and it's quite simply exhausting.

 

[riflow]

I hate him even more now. I hope he enjoys being known as a cheater, scumbag who annuals (and wants to keep) the house they both worked for, breaking up with her a day before the wedding and a contract fraudster :U

 

[Squippie]

Yeah you did, man. You became a massive jerk!

 

[Racchi]

Thank God she's not taking this lying down. I'm so mad for her

 

[KarrotKakes]

His character here is much more thought out and way more believable here than in the other manga adaptation.

 

[Odessakun]

Oh, this is nice. It’s definitely refreshing how both adaptations are focusing on different parts of the story, draws a closer picture to the novel lol

 

[Mathiason]

Thanks for the chapter!
This type of thing is why it's important for a marriage to be between equals with good communication. Granted Dahliya is partially responsible for trusting and enabling him too much and blindly letting him do the registry without following up or checking it over, but he's definitely got the lion's share of blame for letting jealousy eat away at him, never talking to her, and knowingly doing a bunch of bad things he knew was wrong like that final threat of his. Now not only him but his family and their company are going to be in trouble due to his pride widening the gap between them and her. I'm kind of curious how he's going to explain things to his elder brother, the Orlando firm head, that he just unilaterally cut the firm's ties with one of their best customers and magic tool suppliers due to his misdeeds and not owning up to them.

Btw, in case anyone wondering or not fully understanding about the severity of his last threat and implications it's essentially this. As a magic engineer to invent something new or modify an existing tool a lot of money, time, research, and material is expended. Take the water proof cloth she made out of blue slime powder. It's not like following a recipe with the ingredients, amounts, method of preparation already listed out and just need to follow but coming up with everything from scratch. Don't know how long exactly took her but let's say for an example that it took her a year. For that year she spent a lot of money on food, various types of cloth to test and blue slimes from either the Orlando company or adventurers, and disposal of failed experiments. Time spent thinking up experiments, preparing materials for the experiments, conducting the experiment, testing out and critiquing results, and disposing of experiment material that failed or was damaged. Research into what materials are better for certain properties, looks, and ease of acquiring (after all, if want to spread around water proof cloth need something easy to acquire and cheaper to get like blue slimes as opposed to an extremely rare, expensive and hard to acquire material like the hide of an S class dragon that only appears once every three hundred years.) The end result needs to be able to earn her enough money to at least cover all those expenses and live on or otherwise she'll go into the red having spent more money in R&D then earned back with the finished product. With luck and good fortune she'll earn enough to fund the next project. Tobia's threat meant that he'd sever her relationship with the Orlando company. This would mean she'd have to get materials from someplace else, that they'd stop advertising and selling anything she does come up with, would no longer act as a middleman between her and customers for her products, any discounts or credit offered would immediately cease, and when word got out Orlando company no longer does business with her it could stain her name and reputation amongst other stores making it harder to do business. Hopefully he hasn't fallen so low as to have her blacklisted as well. As a result she'll have to spend more time searching for places to get materials, compare prices, and deal with others on whether they're willing to sell her products or not meaning less time to work and earn income.