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What is up with leashing people? Don't do that.
Ogami-san Can’t Keep It In - Vol. 5 Ch. 25 - Yellow Bouquet of Happiness ~ To The Yaginumas ~
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
@gronkle I really was just gonna let this argument go on, but replacing otou-san with dad is absolutely NOT equivalent with replacing onigiri with jelly donuts.
Where otou-san and dad generally mean the same thing, especially with this context in which we know how Yaginuma speaks, the modern time period, and it's not like they've left every instance of 'mother' untranslated (pg 4). We know that Yaginuma is close with his family, hence 'dad' would be a sufficient equivalent. If, say, he were formal with them and he used "otou-sama", "father" would be a sufficient equivalent. Regarding your examples, I'd argue that "dada" and "daddy" would all probably fit into "tou-chan" or "papa" (though I've never heard dada outside of a toddler's mouth). "Pa", "pops", and "pappy" would probably fit into "oyaji" or "jiji", maybe "tou-chan" if they're being affectionate. "Father" and "dad" would fit into "Otou-sama/san" depending on how their relationship is, and I've literally never heard "pater" being used outside of a prefix or latin.
The only time I'd say that family terms shouldn't be translated would be with the -ue suffix (chichi/haha/ani/ane), because I don't think there's a real equivalent in the English language, though I've seen some people make do with adding terms of respect before the term or just making the sentence really formal (Lord brother, etc.). Seeing as how chichi-ue and the like aren't often used in modern times, besides extremely formally or maybe in some historical dramas, I think that's a fine translation choice.
I think it's also important to note that I believe that translation should be localization instead of being a literal translation. I feel like those that prefer literal translations always say that they want to hear the author's voice in the work, or that it's to preserve the Japanese spirit of the work, but by translating it in any way, the story has become the translator's. If you want to not lose the nuance of things in Japanese, then I'd have to ask you to read the work in Japanese.
tldr: there's lots of ways to show nuance in the English language, though messy a language it may be.
Where otou-san and dad generally mean the same thing, especially with this context in which we know how Yaginuma speaks, the modern time period, and it's not like they've left every instance of 'mother' untranslated (pg 4). We know that Yaginuma is close with his family, hence 'dad' would be a sufficient equivalent. If, say, he were formal with them and he used "otou-sama", "father" would be a sufficient equivalent. Regarding your examples, I'd argue that "dada" and "daddy" would all probably fit into "tou-chan" or "papa" (though I've never heard dada outside of a toddler's mouth). "Pa", "pops", and "pappy" would probably fit into "oyaji" or "jiji", maybe "tou-chan" if they're being affectionate. "Father" and "dad" would fit into "Otou-sama/san" depending on how their relationship is, and I've literally never heard "pater" being used outside of a prefix or latin.
The only time I'd say that family terms shouldn't be translated would be with the -ue suffix (chichi/haha/ani/ane), because I don't think there's a real equivalent in the English language, though I've seen some people make do with adding terms of respect before the term or just making the sentence really formal (Lord brother, etc.). Seeing as how chichi-ue and the like aren't often used in modern times, besides extremely formally or maybe in some historical dramas, I think that's a fine translation choice.
I think it's also important to note that I believe that translation should be localization instead of being a literal translation. I feel like those that prefer literal translations always say that they want to hear the author's voice in the work, or that it's to preserve the Japanese spirit of the work, but by translating it in any way, the story has become the translator's. If you want to not lose the nuance of things in Japanese, then I'd have to ask you to read the work in Japanese.
tldr: there's lots of ways to show nuance in the English language, though messy a language it may be.
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@Sarsak I didn't say it was equivalent, I said the line of thinking was equivalent to what lead to it.
I'd rather not drag out the details, but the nuance between each of those English terms is defined by more than familiarity and age. They speak to locale, class, temperament and context. Just as each of the Japanese terms do that you pointed out, but not interchangeably where each connotation matches up, at least not in all cases. Any decision made could colour the interaction in unintended ways.
I agree that a degree of localisation is necessary, and indeed retains more of the text's intention than a literal translation. Otherwise we'd just be using Google alone to translate. If this was a licensed translation I would agree with you entirely, actually. There, there would be multiple professional opinions on tap (one would hope) to pick the brains of, to reach the right balance between tone and accuracy. However for the purposes of an amateur translation, where the term is a familiar one, or one easily explained with a TN, and an English equivalent could be inadequate or contain additional unneeded connotations, I see no reason not to do as the translators here have done.
I'd rather not drag out the details, but the nuance between each of those English terms is defined by more than familiarity and age. They speak to locale, class, temperament and context. Just as each of the Japanese terms do that you pointed out, but not interchangeably where each connotation matches up, at least not in all cases. Any decision made could colour the interaction in unintended ways.
I agree that a degree of localisation is necessary, and indeed retains more of the text's intention than a literal translation. Otherwise we'd just be using Google alone to translate. If this was a licensed translation I would agree with you entirely, actually. There, there would be multiple professional opinions on tap (one would hope) to pick the brains of, to reach the right balance between tone and accuracy. However for the purposes of an amateur translation, where the term is a familiar one, or one easily explained with a TN, and an English equivalent could be inadequate or contain additional unneeded connotations, I see no reason not to do as the translators here have done.
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@MacMeaties Can't complain about squiggles' laziness or their mindless drones will come out in full force to tell you to take a stick out of your ass or something equivalently stupid.
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Fed-Kun's army
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@BraveDude8 Bullshit, my comment was in reply to someone else that insulted me and I replied not only to his insult but to the rest of his comment. By your logic, both should have been moderated. Again, you're just picking and choosing your offenses as you wish.
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Man, I want Oogami and his mother to have a proper talk
because so far it's been all these misunderstandings
because so far it's been all these misunderstandings
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@Bravedude8 - You mean, that it's okay for him to insult me, but because he doesn't focus on that it's okay. But me replying to the insult and making fun of him for insulting me, that's wrong? This is hilarious. You should change your username, liars aren't appreciated anywhere.
Whatever, this whole debacle was embarrassing to see from the MD moderators. I'll drop it here before it turns into even more pointless drama.
Whatever, this whole debacle was embarrassing to see from the MD moderators. I'll drop it here before it turns into even more pointless drama.
@akemua dude take a deep breath and cool down. How he insulted you? Which part of his post insulted you? What's more, even if that was true (citation needed) that doesn't mean you should insult him back. Having civic (or barely civic) discussion is one of the few rules on this wild page. If you felt he broke a rule and personally attacked you just report him, just as I did with your comment which was useless and agressive.
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@Tikibo - You > "why bother translating then? People who love manga should just learn Japanese. The thing is that otou-san etc is equivalent to pops etc. There is no reason to leave it untranslated, it's not typical suffix nor some complicated idiom. It's a damn, common word. It just feels lazy, like the "just according to keikaku" crap. And this comes from a person who hates most of the localisations."
Me > " Seriously, what is your point? You're essentially saying that if we like manga so much, we should just learn the language, or otherwise have it translate completely over to our language in its entirety to understand it more easily. All because you believe it's lazy writing to say "Otou" instead of "dad", "father", "daddy"? What a joke.
Mein Gott, you people are genuinely bothered a translator for illegal manga used "Otou" instead of "dad". You guys are hilarious."
And you find that too aggressive for you? Why am I not even remotely surprised you reported me because I hurt your feewings. Holy fuck, you were more aggressive than I was. Seriously, don't @ me again. This is ridiculous. go back to your safe space.
Me > " Seriously, what is your point? You're essentially saying that if we like manga so much, we should just learn the language, or otherwise have it translate completely over to our language in its entirety to understand it more easily. All because you believe it's lazy writing to say "Otou" instead of "dad", "father", "daddy"? What a joke.
Mein Gott, you people are genuinely bothered a translator for illegal manga used "Otou" instead of "dad". You guys are hilarious."
And you find that too aggressive for you? Why am I not even remotely surprised you reported me because I hurt your feewings. Holy fuck, you were more aggressive than I was. Seriously, don't @ me again. This is ridiculous. go back to your safe space.
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Aww I feel for the mom. Sure she seems a bit unstable but she loves him and did her best for his sake. Real interested to see what his Dad's like too.
Oogami once again shows us why pervy girls are the best. But one things that irks me is that she never talks about, you know, flicking the bean or whatever you wanna call it. I mean, not a single mention of masturbating despite all her wild fantasies.
Oogami once again shows us why pervy girls are the best. But one things that irks me is that she never talks about, you know, flicking the bean or whatever you wanna call it. I mean, not a single mention of masturbating despite all her wild fantasies.
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@fdsfdsfsd It means father.
@akemua have you lost your mind? Or do you can't read? I reported your OTHER comment in which you have called another user edgy bitch boi etc without any reason. The exact comment that you complained about getting moderated. There is literally a screenshot from the mod... Why would I report your frustrated but civic response to my comment? Really, take a brake or something.
