Watashitachi wa Moto Joshi desu - Ch. 13

[SuperOniichan]

If that was the only insight we had into Mino's sexuality sure, but it's not. We've seen her be attracted almost exclusively to girls. We've seen her be confused as to why she isn't attracted to Yuuki in the same way. And now we've seen her saying that what attracted her to him in the first place was (at least partially) his femininity. Some people are just putting two and two together to make inferences.

Her words about femininity were added to make it clear to her friend that she sensed his past gender. As for “attraction to girls,” this was all shown after her gender bender. Before that, she had male crush and no doubt about her sexuality. Even a separate scene where the doctor told her that she began to be attracted to girls because of the “change” of gender. People don't put two and two together, people try to grab onto everything they can read in the direction they need (a clear example is reading “I liked his feminine side” as “I love him precisely because of his feminine side,” because such a distortion allows for further development of the headcanon). To the point where the absence of a "no" is interpreted as the existence of a "yes", even though she shouldn't have received separate confirmation of attraction to guys just so people wouldn't read her as a lesbian and question her attraction to Yuuki.

 

[TheLostLight]

As for “attraction to girls,” this was all shown after her gender bender. Before that, she had male crush and no doubt about her sexuality.

No it wasn't. There are explicit lines referencing her attraction even before the sex change.

 

[SuperOniichan]

No it wasn't. There are explicit lines referencing her attraction even before the sex change.

For example? Which ones? And why then was there a scene with the doctor? This makes her surprise at being attracted to girls and the doctor's response after her gender change completely meaningless.

 

[TheLostLight]

For example? Where?

For example, when she confesses to her two friends that she's always liked boobs.

And why then was there a scene with the doctor? This makes her surprise at being attracted to girls and the doctor's response after her gender change completely meaningless.

Have you never heard of comphet? Given this chapter, the discussion with the doctor seems to obviously be foreshadowing topics which will be examined more closely later on with Yuuki's past.

 

[SuperOniichan]

For example, when she confesses to her two friends that she's always liked boobs.

Have you never heard of comphet? Given this chapter, the discussion with the doctor seems to obviously be foreshadowing topics which will be examined more closely later on with Yuuki's past.

I thought that you would cite some kind of animanga gag or trope as an example. There was a clear comedic element where she was trying to convince herself that she hadn't become a "hentai". Plus we're talking about a female manga character, jokes about women's envy and respect for big breasts are golden classics lmao.

This is just a guess to fit it into the desired narrative. Also, as far as I can see, quite a few people are trying to copy Yuuki's backstory for her too therefore, by coincidence, his backstory would also be very convenient for headcanons about her. Because of this, I even misunderstood the conversation about them in the discussion of the last chapter. Because people talked about their experiences as if they were going through the same experience as one person. At the same time, we see that she was frightened and surprised by the emergence of male sexuality and needs.

 

[TheLostLight]

I thought that you would cite some kind of animanga gag or trope as an example. There was a clear comedic element where she was trying to convince herself that she hadn't become a "hentai". Plus we're talking about a female manga character, jokes about women's envy and respect for big breasts are golden classics lmao.

This is just a guess to fit it into the desired narrative. Also, as far as I can see, quite a few people are trying to rebroadcast Yuuki's story onto her toobecause it would be convenient. Because of this, I even mixed up the conversation about them in the discussion of the last chapter. Because people talked about their experiences as if they were going through the same experience as one person. At the same time, we see that she was frightened and surprised by the emergence of male sexuality and needs.

Idk, I guess we'll see. To me right now, you come off as so heteronormative that you're missing all of the subtle hints and foreshadowings, but I definitely could be wrong. This manga has been keeping its cards pretty close to its chest.

 

[SuperOniichan]

Idk, I guess we'll see. To me right now, you come off as so heteronormative that you're missing all of the subtle hints and foreshadowings, but I definitely could be wrong. This manga has been keeping its cards pretty close to its chest.

We are talking about work where some queer characters have already been confirmed, so the fact that I do not see sufficient evidence for this or that queer fan theory does not make me “heteronormative”. I just don't like it when people read things ahead of time as "subtle hints" to support a desired narrative instead of trying to be neutral when examining how the story unfolds to avoid wishful thinking. This may be confirmed or may be refuted in the futher, I always try to get more "flesh" than just speculate in one direction or another. But yes, it is better to continue to follow the development of story further than to argue at the very beginning about what “exactly the authors meant based on these hints.”

 

[Andigo]

For example, when she confesses to her two friends that she's always liked boobs.

Have you never heard of comphet? Given this chapter, the discussion with the doctor seems to obviously be foreshadowing topics which will be examined more closely later on with Yuuki's past.

Even with comphet in play, I don't think Mino's old sexuality is knowable from current events. Or important. We won't know if they don't backtrack to the topic. They didn't have purely hetero cues, and I'm ambivalent about labels, but we don't know. It's not unrealistic for a change in hormones to shift someone's sexuality, and they can't fool their new libido. Though that would usually not be far on a sexuality spectrum, only towards bi or towards preferred gender and less bi.

With limited evidence, my current interpretation is Mino was correct they liked men before new hormones, not delusional. They probably also liked women somewhat, and because they didn't recognize it they're thrown for a loop that they are now mostly attracted to women.

 

[rkkn]

it's weird how it's so common for japanese protagonists to be like "I can't say this unless the conversation happens to flow into it perfectly" "oh no I lost my chance. now I can never say it"

like bruh if it's important just say it. so much drama stems from this weird inability to use words

I hope that's not what's about to happen here, but it sure looks like it's going there.

 

[SuperOniichan]

Even with comphet in play, I don't think Mino's old sexuality is knowable from current events. Or important. We won't know if they don't backtrack to the topic. They didn't have purely hetero cues, and I'm ambivalent about labels, but we don't know. It's not unrealistic for a change in hormones to shift someone's sexuality, and she can't fool her new libido. Though that would usually not be far on a sexuality spectrum, only towards bi or towards preferred gender and less bi.

With limited evidence, my current interpretation is Mino was correct they liked men before new hormones, not delusional. They probably also liked women somewhat, and because they didn't recognize it they're thrown for a loop that they are now mostly attracted to women.

The key question is, does this have any significance to her current situation and the ideas of this manga as a whole? She still continues to love Yuuki and view him as her main or only love interest, while being greatly embarrassed by her attraction to women in a new body, so I don't see any plot reasons for introducing the theoretical "I've always been gay" element at this point. For now at least.

The only strange thing is that no one seems to have noticed that if her crush on Yuuki is legally preserved, then Mino actually comes out as a bisexual man at this point. Which seems interesting for a variety of reasons, such as Yuuki's apparent heterosexuality as a man.

 

[SuperOniichan]

it's weird how it's so common for japanese protagonists to be like "I can't say this unless the conversation happens to flow into it perfectly" "oh no I lost my chance. now I can never say it"

like bruh if it's important just say it. so much drama stems from this weird inability to use words

I hope that's not what's about to happen here, but it sure looks like it's going there.

Classic Japanese social restrictions and related problems. Doramas are full of this, as it seems to be a banal part of Japanese social life.

 

[dedmoroz]

it's weird how it's so common for japanese protagonists to be like "I can't say this unless the conversation happens to flow into it perfectly" "oh no I lost my chance. now I can never say it"

like bruh if it's important just say it. so much drama stems from this weird inability to use words

I hope that's not what's about to happen here, but it sure looks like it's going there.

i can't speak to romance confession scenes, but this hits pretty close to my own personal "coming out" circumstances. i.e. i gave myself excuses to not do it and then i ended up not doing it. repeat ad infinum

can you share any examples of "i can't say this" in manga/anime (other than this) that isn't also tied to a confession? asking bc this is probably the first time i've seen happen in a coming out scene that also wasn't tied to a confession, so for once the trope feels fresh to me.

again, not tied to a confession

 

[ipmanvsthemask]

What I took out of this chapter is that:

• Mao dated someone, but it turned out badly because it was about sex only.
• Mao maybe knows that Yuuki is a former girl, seeing her reaction to Rinko's offhand comment.
• Rinko was attracted to Yuuki mainly because of his somewhat feminine behavior, so maybe s/he's always been attracted to girls.

Re: 3rd point

You can't draw that conclusion from just that, not even vaguely. If Rinko isn't used to how boys usually are, of course she's gonna attracted to a boy that has that feminine/sensitive touch to them.

 

[ipmanvsthemask]

Holy! Rinko filled the trash in her room! Her meat be like:

that trash can's gonna stink so much. she shoulda disposed of it before heading out.

 

[Andigo]

The key question is, does this have any significance to her current situation and the ideas of this manga as a whole? She still continues to love Yuuki and view him as her main or only love interest, while being greatly embarrassed by her attraction to women in a new body, so I don't see any plot reasons for introducing the theoretical "I've always been gay" element at this point. For now at least.

The only strange thing is that no one seems to have noticed that if her crush on Yuuki is legally preserved, then Mino actually comes out as a bisexual man at this point.

I find it very significant and well written. The old situation is relevant as seeds of who Mino is, and affirms the current Mino's continuity of self. Mino dearly needs that affirmation. However the interpretation of old events is currently ambiguous.

(1) Liking some things about people or a gender isn't definitely about sexuality. Without having and analyzing relationships, many indicators of sexuality are unreliable. That includes liking boobs, a particular empathy, or even why someone crushes on their first love. Honestly IRL queer spaces that gender-typed empathy is a clearer indicator for adult sexuality than the others, even over first childhood crush's gender, but I'm not mapping that onto the story. We learned nothing truly definitive from before the changes.
(2) What someone likes now is a continuation from their earlier life, and foreshadowing. Old likes can be liked in new ways.
(3) Mino's change in likes and sexuality has precedents, and continuity, and so is not a violation of their mental self like the bodily changes. The past affirms Mino is the same person.
(4) Mino can learn to recognize this change as natural, as okay. Not as a failure, an imposition, or a wrongness to feel dysphoria about. Until then it's a source of anxiety, and adds to, as you said, embarassment.

So the details of Mino's past and current feelings, including subtext and text towards women, and heteronormative framings that can be applied male-female likes, are good continuity. We don't need confirmations. I think it's a valid read that Mino had a more complicated sexuality and naivete. It's realistic. But it's not canon or strictly relevant. What matters is this mess validates Mino's current sexuality as understandable changes and not as a massive mutation like the unwanted puberty.

 

[Lame_Security]

Holy shit how many wanks did she have the day before
Also throw that shit out girl!

That never help keeping the urge down; it just makes it painful whenever you get erection.

Yeah, made that mistake once. I'm think it's fermenting when I threw it out.

 

[SuperOniichan]

I find it very significant and well written. The old situation is relevant as seeds of who Mino is, and affirms the current Mino's continuity of self. Mino dearly needs that affirmation. However the interpretation of old events is currently ambiguous.

(1) Liking some things about people or a gender isn't definitely about sexuality. Without having and analyzing relationships, many indicators of sexuality are unreliable. That includes liking boobs, a particular empathy, or even why someone crushes on their first love. Honestly IRL queer spaces that gender-typed empathy is a clearer indicator for adult sexuality than the others, even over first childhood crush's gender, but I'm not mapping that onto the story. We learned nothing truly definitive from before the changes.
(2) What someone likes now is a continuation from their earlier life, and foreshadowing. Old likes can be liked in new ways.
(3) Mino's change in likes and sexuality has precedents, and continuity, and so is not a violation of their mental self like the bodily changes. The past affirms Mino is the same person.
(4) Mino can learn to recognize this change as natural, as okay. Not as a failure, an imposition, or a wrongness to feel dysphoria about. Until then it's a source of anxiety, and adds to, as you said, embarassment.

So the details of Mino's past and current feelings, including subtext and text towards women, and heteronormative framings that can be applied male-female likes, are good continuity. We don't need confirmations. I think it's a valid read that Mino had a more complicated sexuality and naivete. It's realistic. But it's not canon or strictly relevant. What matters is this mess validates Mino's current sexuality as understandable changes and not as a massive mutation like the unwanted puberty.

I'm sorry, but you are now repeating one of my favorite mistakes. In the sense that I often do it myself. You give things a much deeper and greater meaning by trying to interpret them. At the moment, I just don’t see that the plot has a need to introduce such an element. Neither to refute nor to confirm any features of her personality or experience. But again, this is much closer to Yuuki's subplot, as he did experience conflict over gender and sexuality after and especially before his gender change.

It could really get more exploration if some female character tries to get something out of her or the largely ignored theme of Mino as a now bisexual (potential) man gets more focus, but until then it just feels like an artificial dive into themes that are for one reason or another are interesting to readers, but is not raised by the author themselfs in her case.

 

[TheLostLight]

Even with comphet in play, I don't think Mino's old sexuality is knowable from current events. Or important. We won't know if they don't backtrack to the topic. They didn't have purely hetero cues, and I'm ambivalent about labels, but we don't know. It's not unrealistic for a change in hormones to shift someone's sexuality, and they can't fool their new libido. Though that would usually not be far on a sexuality spectrum, only towards bi or towards preferred gender and less bi.

Well, I agree. I was mainly playing advocate for Kirin-kun, but I don't think anyone was claiming that this is proof of Mino's sexuality. I interpreted Kirin-kun to be making the claim that the way Mino worded it here adds on to the growing pile of (circumstantial) evidence that suggests that maybe she's not as straight as she thought she was, which was what I've been trying to argue here as well. We can't say anything definitively at the moment, but personally I think there's more evidence in favour of Mino having always liked women, in comparison to the amount of evidence for the contrary.

In reality, increased testosterone is not going to erase a sexual attraction to men (instead research shows that it would only increase it if anything), so if that's the explanation for Mino not feeling sexual attraction to Yuuki, then that would be a bit of a head scratcher for me, although it wouldn't be the first time I've seen that explanation used in genderbend manga. But with the themes that the manga has hinted towards being interested in exploring so far (e.g. Yuuki's "I was always disgusting" line) it seems like the manga would be much more thematically cohesive if it turned out that Rinko always liked women but never understood her sexuality until it threatened to burst out of her pants, so to speak.

 

[sebaasdf]

2nd character to jerk off to Mao

 

[soda_bunny]

Holy! Rinko filled the trash in her room! Her meat be like:

Omg cursed 😂😂😂